tarzi Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I tried the search, couldn't find anything, so I'll ask it Does anyone know if it is possible to go to med school in the US, complete residency in the US, and then come back to practice in Canada? (Assuming that the residencies are equal in length). A related question - if the US residency happens to be shorter, can one come back to Canada and simply complete the extra years in residency, and then practice in Canada? Also related - if we pass all the licensing exams in the US - steps 1,2,3 USMLE - would we still have to write the MCCQE exams? For the scenario of the Canadian who wished to return to Canada for residency, if we took steps 1 and 2 and passed, will we have to write the MCCQE exams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I can't answer your question, but I'm just curious as to what your motivation would be to do it. Most people either go US all the way and intend on staying there or do MD there and then return to Canada for residency and eventually practice. So I was just wondering if you could elaborate on the reasons behind your plan, for curiosity's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Yeah of course! lol many reasons. There is the possibility that I may not gain admission in a Canadian school this year, and I'm not waiting any longer. I already have a US admission. But I do wish to come back to Canada, and the ideal scenario is that I can match into my specialty of choice, not location, back in canda - but if i will be disadvantaged in the CaRMS match, I would rather do my residency in the US, than to go into a field of medicine that I do not want. Thus, there is the possibilty that I may get forced into doing a US residency b/c I cannot match into my desired specialty in Canada - and right now, I am looking at Rads, Anesth, IM with cardio fellowship, and Surgical specialties - since these are competitive, i'm sure i'll be disadvantaged. That's why I want to find out all the hoops, or lack thereof, that I gotta jump through should I do my residency in the US, if I want to come back to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 hey, one of my tutorial leaders was a surgeon in buffalo and now he's working in canada...so i dont think it should be a problem. although he did attend med school in canada...dunno about residency. but i know many docs that have done residency in US and practice in canada. you may want to look into whether or not you have to do the LMCC exams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I catch your drift. But if you are not a US citizen/permanent resident, I'd keep in mind that obtaining a medical residency there will also be an issue, probably more so than returning to Canada after finishing that residency. It's too bad that a lot of us are being caught between a rock and a hard place because of the shortage of seats in Canada and bureaucracy in both countries. I am also curious to know about writing the Canadian licensing exams in addition to the USMLEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Nah - I spoke with some current canadian MS4's in the US, for the most part - most places will grant you the H1B visa, provided that you are a stellar candidate, Canadian, and attended a US school. There are some hospitals that will not grant the visa - therefore, you will be limited in where you can do your residency, but not to the point where you are forced into a non-competitive specialty or into rural locations. That's what these students are telling me. But yeah, it'd be nice to know if we wrote all the US license and board exams, would it be possible to come back to CAN without having to take the canadian ones....nobody knows???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffp Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tarzi, Don't know all the specifics of US/Canada, but I know of a few applicants who did residency in the US and got cardio fellowships in Canada. Scenario 1 - Guy from Calgary who was very bright, but with horrible undergrad grades who went to Carribbean school. Did an IM elective in Saskatoon as a med student and really impressed. Rest of clerkship done in Chicago. Matched to IM in Saskatoon, then cardio in Saskatoon (ok, he's not really a US applicant) Scenario 2 - Guy from Edmonton who went to a Carribbean med school. Did IM residency in Oklahoma and matched to cardio in Saskatoon. Does not intend to do Cdn exams because his gf is doing pulmonary/critical care in the states, and he wants to move back there to be with her. Scenarios 3 and 4 - two guys now in Winnipeg - not sure their country of origin or where they did med school, but they did IM residencies in the US and are now in cardio in Winnipeg. For the cardio interviews, we interviewed a number of US applicants, some of whom were US citizens. It is slightly tougher to match to subspecialty fellowships as a US applicant, but still doable if you are willing to go to "less desirable" places like Manitoba and Saskatoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Yeah of course - I don't care where I match, just what I match into. Wow - those are some amazing examples, b/c I know that cardio is a hard fellowship to get! Incredible. Anyway, no offense lol, but these examples are kinda irrelevant to my question - b/c it tell us whether they had to write the LMCC exams, even though they already wrote the US ones. Nor does it tell us what they had to do to get back here, after their residencies in the US!! So for the guy who did his IM residency in the US, and then got his cardio fellowship in saskatoon - i'm assuming the only exams he had to take were the ones during fellowship??? He did not have to take MCCQE 1,2?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tarzi,Don't know all the specifics of US/Canada, but I know of a few applicants who did residency in the US and got cardio fellowships in Canada. Scenario 1 - Guy from Calgary who was very bright, but with horrible undergrad grades who went to Carribbean school. Did an IM elective in Saskatoon as a med student and really impressed. Rest of clerkship done in Chicago. Matched to IM in Saskatoon, then cardio in Saskatoon (ok, he's not really a US applicant) Scenario 2 - Guy from Edmonton who went to a Carribbean med school. Did IM residency in Oklahoma and matched to cardio in Saskatoon. Does not intend to do Cdn exams because his gf is doing pulmonary/critical care in the states, and he wants to move back there to be with her. Scenarios 3 and 4 - two guys now in Winnipeg - not sure their country of origin or where they did med school, but they did IM residencies in the US and are now in cardio in Winnipeg. For the cardio interviews, we interviewed a number of US applicants, some of whom were US citizens. It is slightly tougher to match to subspecialty fellowships as a US applicant, but still doable if you are willing to go to "less desirable" places like Manitoba and Saskatoon. hey, you got any examples of ppl who got into surgery or rads??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffp Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 everyone I know in surgical specialties and rads are Cdn grads... sorry. The guy who did IM in the US wrote all 3 of his USMLEs and his American IM boards. He doesn't need the MCCQE or LMCC2 to work as a resident or fellow here, but if he wanted to do moonlighting shifts, he would need LMCC2 (a requirement of our school). He does not intend to do his Canadian exams b/c he does not intend to practice in Canada. He plans to do his US cardio exams at the completion of fellowship (not the Canadian ones, because this would require him to do the Canadian Royal College Exam in internal medicine - something one should avoid if at all possible My examples weren't intended to answer all of your questions (b/c I'm afraid I don't know all of the answers), but to show you that it is possible to get into a Canadian cardio program from a US residency. We have a resp fellow here who trained in the US and is doing her Cdn Royal College exams in IM this year. She has her US IM board exams, and USMLE steps 1-3 but I'm not sure if she has done or needs to do MCCQE and LMCC2. I can ask her next time I run into her and find out. To get their subspecialties after IM residency in the US, all they had to do is apply to the Canadian programs through the R4 match like any other applicant. Some schools don't discriminate... for example, the resp fellow from US was ranked higher than a local applicant. I would check with the individual programs, though. I know Ontario does not consider IMGs in the R4 match. I'm not sure if US is considered to be "IMG". In order to enhance your chances of gettiing a Canadian fellowship, it would be advisable to do electives in Canada during your IM residency in the programs you are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Oh - I get it, we don't need the LMCC exams to be residents or fellows, but to be fully licensed, we need to write them no matter what - even if we were fully licensed in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Nah - I spoke with some current canadian MS4's in the US, for the most part - most places will grant you the H1B visa, provided that you are a stellar candidate, Canadian, and attended a US school. There are some hospitals that will not grant the visa - therefore, you will be limited in where you can do your residency, but not to the point where you are forced into a non-competitive specialty or into rural locations. That's what these students are telling me. I dunno, a (former?) mod on here was at Northwestern and wasn't able to get anything, apparently they were revoking his interviews the second they found out he needed a visa - so they weren't even considering him, and thus his competitiveness didn't seem to be an issue. He's in FP in Canada now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyvaio2700 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I dunno, a (former?) mod on here was at Northwestern and wasn't able to get anything, apparently they were revoking his interviews the second they found out he needed a visa - so they weren't even considering him, and thus his competitiveness didn't seem to be an issue. He's in FP in Canada now. one of the reasons was he was applying solely in Western part of the US eg. California. Another reason he pointed out was his less that spectacular board scores. Combine these two things, its almost impossible to get a residency in western US even for a "moderately competitive" anesthesiology that he applied to. He did say he got interviews though...but not at places he was expecting. But I have to admit its a bit surprising considering he went to a top 20 school... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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