Representing your school

[Steph O Scope]

I had my interview on Saturday, and one aspect of my day that disappointed me slightly was how the students depicted their school during the presentation after the interviews/essays were over. In my group they mentioned: using the independent study time to sleep in, no one actually goes to the 'public health' and culture classes (which I consider important to the study of medicine), and drinking and partying. Although I realize these are probably inevitable aspects of medical schools, and traits of medical students the immaturity of many of the leaders in my group really shocked me. I think it is important for them to realize that UofC is trying to attract the best and the brightest and the breadth of our education is more important to most of us than oppurtunities to party or sleep in. I sat through the session experiencing deja vu of my undergraduate days, when these were my priorities. As a slightly older (26 yo) applicant these really aren't selling points for me and their represenation of their school disapointed me.

[Gadzillar]

As one of the team leaders on Saturday, I'm truly disappointed and sorry for the impression you received of our program.

 

Something that I think we take pride in here at Calgary is that we have an incredible amount of diversity within our class. Each day, we come together as a group of people ranging from 19 to 44 years of age, from backgrounds including law, English, pharmacy, nursing, music, and sciences. Some with graduate degrees, some with no degrees. Some with spouses, some who've barely dated. Some with children, some who are still living with their parents. For the most part, we find common ground and work well with each other. It is true, however, that the priorities of some are quite different than those of others. Something I think we value, and something I think we're constantly working on, is creating an environment where people of (reasonably) different values and priorities can learn and work with each other.

 

It's true that sometimes people sleep in during IST. Sometimes you need it! It's also true that sometimes you're up at 8:00 AM, driving to the Rockyview, 5 and 1/2 hours before any of your lectures will start. Course attendance is variable, but it isn't always attributable to laziness or negligence--some of my colleagues learn better using modalities other than lecture, and I'd be just as confident having them do a central line on me as I would the ones who haven't missed a class since school started. Drinking and partying does occur, and when kept within reason, is a fantastic social activity for many people in our class. From what I've seen of other Western medical schools, we're certainly not unique in that regard. I don't mean that to be an attack against other programs; rather an acknowledgement that it shouldn't stand as an attack on ours.

 

Within the class, we do recognize that drinking and partying isn't for some of us, just as much as theatre or rock climbing or intramural sports isn't for some of us. Here's a sample of some of the events coming up in our weekly newsletter:

 

Screening of Brocket99 Rockin’ the Country - March 5th, 6 - 9pm @ Theatre One. A discussion with

the director Nilesh Patel, refreshments to follow. Please RSVP by February 26 to Sue-Ann.

 Sexual Orientation and Healthcare Panel Discussion and Dinner - March 6th, 6 - 8pm @ Clara

Christie Theatre. The evening will begin with delicious Greek food followed by several short presentations

from panel members about sexual orientation in healthcare. We are pleased to have a diverse group of panelists

including volunteer patients, a psychologist and a sexual health educator. An interactive discussion will

follow the presentations. RSVP by March 2nd.

 Open Mic Night - March 9th, 7pm @ Libin Theatre. Let Ping know if you would like to come and play a

few songs. Otherwise come and enjoy entertainment by your talented classmates.

 FMIG/RMIG Urban Skills Day - Saturday, March 10th, 8:30am - 1:00pm. Food will be

provided. Sessions will include: childbirth and vacuum delivery, episiotomy repair and suturing, use of asthma

devices, IUD insertion and endometrial biopsy, injections and ear syringing, and punch biopsy.

 The Stand Up! National Youth Leadership Conference - March 7 to 10, 2007 @ MacEwan Student

Centre. Individuals from grade 12 to 30 years of age are invited to join us to develop and perfect their leadership

skills, network and find potential volunteer and career opportunities. They will benefit from our expert

session presenters and speakers, and meet young Canadians from coast to coast from diverse leadership

backgrounds. Delegates who register by January 31 will receive an Early Bird Discount of 15%.

 The Greying Nation: Transitions of care in later life - March 21st -23rd @ Shaw Conference Centre,

Edmonton. The first bi-annual Greying Nation international conference will address how the healthcare sector

can adapt care to the changing needs of the population in the later stages of the life cycle. Meet an outstanding

line-up of keynote speakers including Stephen Lewis and Baroness Susan Greenfield, noted British

neuroscientist. GRHEdServices@cha.ab.ca (780) 735-7912 or 1-877-877-8714 for more information.

 Head for a Cure - April 13th @ Health Sciences Atrium. U of C meds and grad students cancer fundraiser.

Anyone willing to have their head shaved should get a pledge form, go out and collect pledges from

family and friends and come to Health Sciences Atrium on April 13 where all your hair will be shaved off! We

will also be having raffles (tickets available at Bookstore shortly) and a silent auction on the day of the head

shaving. Email Mike or Elisha with questions.

 Body Heals - Integrative Medicine Conference - May 25th - 27th @ Victoria, BC. It will bring together

physicians, other health professionals, and policy makers with leading-edge thinkers, visionaries, practitioners

and researchers. Keynote speakers include Dr. David Suzuki, Dr. Norman Shealy (founder of the American

Holistic Medical Association) and Dr. Steven Aung. There is a special student rate - $150 and opportunities

for students to volunteer. Spaces are limited, so register or volunteer now if you are interested in attending!

 

I don't mean this post to be an attempt to defuse your criticism. Certainly, you raise valid points, and deserve them to be addressed honestly and sincerely. I only hope to apologize for our failure today, and show you the possibility of what those of us who are part of the school know: regardless of where you come from in life or where you want to go, you can find a respectful and collegial home here in our program, should you be offered an opportunity to attend it.

 

If there are any other questions you have, or if there is anything else you want to share or discuss, please feel free to continue posting in this thread, or send me a PM. You worked hard today to show us why you would be a good student for our school, so you deserve our best effort to show you that we could be a good school for a student like you.

 

Thank you for your feedback, and best of luck.

 

(Edited for tired-student-grammar).

[HandSolo]

Sounds like your group went a little overboard....maybe trying a little too hard to be Dr. Fonz. Ehhhhhhhh.

However, they might have been just trying to put people at ease about the 3 year program (with respect to burnout, since everyone seems to be having such a good time).

 

My group, during the presentation, seemed to be making uncanny efforts to avoid even saying the word "drink"....though it was obvious what they were alluding to. I think if i were to summarize the sentiment, it would be that "we work hard, and we play hard."

 

Anyway, I personally enjoyed the experience simply because everyone seemed so genuine and tight with each other (rather than tight-assed). The students I met were proof that Calgary does appreciate a diversity of candidates, and the way everyone got along was so natural...definitely did not seem like a show. I really appreciate that it is a cooperative atmosphere; that was something else I took from the presentation and it helped me picture myself going there.

 

Meanwhile, I've met medstudents in competitive, single-minded programs....and sure I couldn't picture them drinking their faces off and skipping classes (which apparently some of them do because they were too high-stress and fixated on medschool in undergrad to do it then), but I also can't picture wanting them around me for long periods of time.

 

Still, i can appreciate that many medical schools have diverse and cooperative student bodies....but I really appreciate that the Calgary students were so comfortable with themselves and each other that everything I've just been blathering about shined through to the applicants.

 

Oh yeah, and I'm 26 too. Considering that self-directed learning is an essential part of the process, it shouldn't affect me if someone else wants to sleep in, or wreck themselves after finishing a double exam in GI and hematology. With so many of them matching first round, I'd say what they've got going on works for them....and looks really enjoyable from the outside.

[Gadzillar]

Thanks for your post, HandSolo!

 

I don't think I was in Steph's group, although I might have been in yours, since the "work hard, play hard" mantra and the cooperation were a few of the things we tried to mention. The picture you painted of life at UofC is much closer to what I feel like I live day-to-day, and I hope most of the interviewees were able to see something similar to what you did. What sucks for me is that I know there are probably quite a few others like Steph who we gave a wrong or incomplete impression to, and I'd hate to miss out on getting to know some wonderful new colleagues in August because of it.

 

I know you all filled out an exit survey and had a chance to ask questions, but as stressful as interviews are it's easy to forget or forego saying something. Please, keep the comments coming--good or bad!

[lurkergonepublic]

Just wanted to add my comments, though I think Gads put it well...

 

The UofC interview day itself has traditionally been more relaxed and friendly than other schools - something that has attracted many people who like that in the past. I don't think anyone was trying to give the impression it's a lax school, but maybe just overdoing it on the whole comfortable and welcoming aspects of the UofC tradition. Hopefully you won't let that hang you up too much about other aspects of the program.

 

As mentioned, there is a wide variety of personality types, and even maturity levels in the class. Many people DO go to those public health classes, and get a good deal out information out of them. Our year is actually often pointed out as having the highest sustained lecture attendance level in a number of years.

 

If you had the chance to meet enough students from our class, you would probably encounter all personality types. Only a few people have the time or chance to be around for interviews, and often they're not the ones juggling school, families, research and such (but don't let a cavalier attitude fool you into thinking they're not busy either - or that they're not good students). I'm a bit older myself, married and with kids. I'm very serious about succeeding in med school and my future plans, and I know that nearly all of my classmates are too. I've found the UofC to be a fine environment in which to learn medince, and to have some fun along the way.

 

If you or anyone else feels they have questions they didn't get adequate answers to during their interview, feel free to contact me as well. I'll try to check in on my PMs more often...

[2009mg]

As one of the team leader my position on this whole thing is as follows. It was essentially my goal to be a relaxed, up beat and positive as possible. You guys were a bundle of nerves and us coming across as uptight keeners would not be the best way to reassure you guys. This is the truth about the school. We are a diverse bunch...there are those that study 24/7, there are those that have families and study in between the nap time of their 2 year old, there are those that like to go the bar and socialize all the time. The truth is that we are all incredibly hard working and have gotten as far as we have because we are exceptional people. If you didn't feel like the professional side of U of C wasn't highlighted then you need to remember that we are a medical school and that professional behaviour is paramount. What we tried to show you was that there is life beyond what the world thinks of med school and med students. My advice is to lighten up.

[dialntin]

"My advice is to lighten up." 2009mg

 

very useful advice I'll remember that, as I am sure many other interviewees that found the experience a little off color. Don't get me wrong, it is not like everyone does these things everyday and sometimes things can come across somewhat ....wrong. But the consistency of it really makes one stop & think. This particularly stands in contrast to the high standards that U of C expects of its successful candidates.

There are different ways to lighten up, its just some of them are more mature than others.

 

Regards,

dialntin

[Kirsteen]

Hey there,

 

Just like many other things (residency programs included, as I've recently found) there are different types of personalities that are suited to different types of medical schools. I really enjoyed the laid-back and warm atmosphere that was presented by the UofC folks when I interviewed here, just as I enjoyed that atmosphere here and at a few other residency programs when I interviewed there recently. Not all programs have the same feel and what's most important is to select the program with which you feel you have the best fit.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Steph O Scope]

Well said dialntin. I know, from talking to other interviewers that I am not alone in my sentiments. I think what surprised us the most was, as you say, the discrepency between the high standards one expects and what was delivered in the presenation. I wouldn't consider myself particularly uptight (no need to "lighten up" , it's just that when it comes to something I have worked this hard for I take it seriously. I have no doubt that the leaders were trying their best, and there was huge variation between groups, but it is always important to provide an audience-appropriate presentation. It is up to us to decide which school is the best fit for us, and up to the leaders to depict their school as positively as possible. I just find it unfortunate that my group didn't get to see an accurate reflection of what UofC has to offer. Thank you so much to those of you who have posted here to give your view and further insights.

Steph

[fishy0118]

It would be interesting then, since I'll be in the purple group for this coming Saturday's interview, I will get to "experience" the student presentations before actually going for the MMI

 

If in the event they ask me what I think about UC's med school and its program, I might have something different to say

[HandSolo]

So are we phoning in a request for polished and phony depictions of student life?

Nothing kills the vibe more than those dime a dozen presentations introducing a "dynamic, innovative, diverse, professional, and cooperative learning environment" with the artificially tagged on afterthought of "oh but we know how to have fun...just look at all these pictures of us smiling and engaging in leisure activities that our focus group has assured us will not offend anyone"

 

But i'm sure that if enough people complain, future generations of applicants can look forward to more of the same restrained/censored/filtered presentations.

[Gadzillar]

Time will tell, HandSolo, but I can tell you that we're aware of this thread at a class level. What scares me more than anything is that now someone from Ottawa--who has never met me, shaken my hand, seen my face, or followed me through a hospital ward--is prepared to joke about or question my professionalism, or qualifications to be a physician. I hope nobody is making the mistake of thinking that this isn't taken seriously on our end as well.

[Rock*]

Time will tell, HandSolo, but I can tell you that we're aware of this thread at a class level. What scares me more than anything is that now someone from Ottawa--who has never met me, shaken my hand, seen my face, or followed me through a hospital ward--is prepared to joke about or question my professionalism, or qualifications to be a physician. I hope nobody is making the mistake of thinking that this isn't taken seriously on our end as well.

Well Gadzillar, I'm from Ottawa and I have never met you in person but from what I can judge from your measured yet helpful responses in this thread, I won't be joking about your professionalism or U of C's

[CrazyKath]

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents...

 

I have led groups last year and this year for the MMI's. The reason that I give up one of my few Saturdays remaining before clerkship is because I'm really proud of my medical school and I want the opportunity to talk to people that are truly interested in coming here. I understand that the 3yr structure and the community that we work hard to foster doesn't fit with everyone's ideal learning environment. Some people need 2 years of lecture or a competitive environment to truly excel and I'm glad that they know that of themselves, you're ahead of the game!

 

As for the presenters, one of the benefits of Calgary is the diversity of the student population. Although I don't agree with everyone's viewpoint, I recognize that we all have the same end goal and everyone has worked hard to get to this point. That deserves some respect even if I don't personally get along with everyone all the time. Regardless, I wouldn't sacrifice our community and our social network for anything... it's one of the Calgary perks that has kept me sane!

 

That being said, there is no excuse for being truly unprofessional or offensive and I apologize if any of the interviewees were upset. My best advice is to record whatever comments upset you and to use your opportunity to report your feedback on the interview day. We take your feedback very seriously and use it to modify the next year and even remove certain interviewers and group leaders. So use the opportunity, but don't take the impact of your comments here or on the feedback forms lightly. It is carefully listened to and has consequences.

 

Similarly, I hope this comment has been useful and hasn't served only to piss off more people ...

[Gadzillar]

Well Gadzillar, I'm from Ottawa and I have never met you in person but from what I can judge from your measured yet helpful responses in this thread, I won't be joking about your professionalism or U of C's

 

Thanks! I appreciate that, honestly. I guess my worry is that, like Steph said, there were others who weren't impressed or got the wrong idea, but maybe they'll never see this forum or talk with anyone from UofC again. Like this year's interviewees know all too well, first impressions are so critical. It's almost like our MMI philosophy being applied in reverse; we might have botched one of our attempts, but we'd sure appreciate 8* more tries to present ourselves!

 

*(Well, not that number specifically, but you get the idea)

[Who M.D.]

Well said dialntin. I know, from talking to other interviewers that I am not alone in my sentiments. I think what surprised us the most was, as you say, the discrepency between the high standards one expects and what was delivered in the presenation. I wouldn't consider myself particularly uptight (no need to "lighten up" , it's just that when it comes to something I have worked this hard for I take it seriously.

 

I interviewed on Sunday and had many of the same feelings that you did. I think what jarred was that the presentation was so focused on partying and having fun—taken in isolation, the presentation would have made one think that UofC Med was a party school. I'm sure there must be other kinds of activities that the UofC students run e.g. charity events, hobbyist clubs, etc. Some discussion of those would have made the school seem much more diverse and not a place where people just drink and party when not studying.

 

I loved the rest of my day at UofC, but that presentation just stuck out as a black spot. As I was leaving at the end of the interview events, I was already thinking about helping out with the presentation next year if I get in to improve the balance.

[fishy0118]

What scares me more than anything is that now someone from Ottawa--who has never met me, shaken my hand, seen my face, or followed me through a hospital ward--is prepared to joke about or question my professionalism, or qualifications to be a physician.

 

Don't worry about it, as far as I'm concerned, I won't be joking or questioning about the abilities of the med students/leaders. The many sincere and direct responses from some of you helped shed some light on what it really is like @ the U of C. Added to that, everyone has a different perception on the same issue/incident. I am therefore eager to see it for myself and not make any judgment based on a couple of posts. Forums, in general, are good media for discussing and sharing ideas, but there is also much room for misunderstanding.

[FunkyPants]

I can understand that some individuals may have gone home with a misconcieved perception of UofC following the presentations, if this has been their only exposure to the school. I think for myself, given that I am familiar with the program (have friends going through/have gone through, and doing a masters in the faculty of med at uofc) I was able to have some appreciation for what the leaders were trying to do, ie ease our tensions, show us they know how to have fun/let loose. I already know the academic reasons why I would like to attend UofCmed, and interview day, for me, highlighted some of the fun aspects.

 

I think it is great that there is open and frank discussions on this forum on topics such as these. The only way to improve the interviewing experience is if people are honest about the perception they got on their interview day. That being said, I also think it is really important not to discredit or disregard anybodies opinions.

[HandSolo]

My concern is a valid one I think. You'd think that people who aspire to be physicians would be fairly understanding and seek to take everything relatively rather than at face value.

If someone can be offended by somebody in their desired profession going on the record about their party-flavoured enjoyment of life....then how judgmental are these people going to be when they have a million dollars of training and an MD license tucked under their belts?

 

Plus...Calgary seems to provide an environment where self-directed learners can thrive. So what difference does it make? To me, this "unprofessionalism" backs up UofC's claims that the students really are part of a diverse, cooperative, and burnout-free environment.

[drcave]

My only concern is that you guys might not show the video for the March 3 interviews. I HAVE to see it now!

[Gadzillar]

My only concern is that you guys might not show the video for the March 3 interviews. I HAVE to see it now!

 

Hahaha, I'm sure if you ask the guy who made it (I won't give away his identity), he'd show it to you regardless.

 

I agree that your concern is valid, HandSolo. Actually I really like the way you're looking at this, though I do acknowledge the other viewpoints.

 

It's a bit of an aside, but making judgements about patients is a big issue in medicine. I think you were sort of getting at this tangentially. How much do we blame smokers for their lung cancer, or obese people for their heart disease? Do we treat people of different ethnic groups differently? If you've been around the Health Sci building recently, you've probably seen the posters advertising the presentation on whether or not we provide the best care to homosexual patients. Conversely, sometimes it's good or necessary to make judgements about people, like when you have one liver, and an alcoholic versus someone who's never drank on the transplant list. Or, if a colleague in your practice is coming to work drunk...

 

@fishy: Forums are definitely notorious for that sort of thing. I know I singled you out, but it was only to highlight what's at stake for those of us at the school. I'm glad you're weighing each side and leaving room for those inevitable misunderstandings, and thank ou for giving us the benefit of the doubt. Good luck Saturday!

[lurkergonepublic]

My only concern is that you guys might not show the video for the March 3 interviews.

 

As the producer of this movie I have been watching this thread. I have been under the impression that it is not the movie so much that people have objected to, as the general tone of one or more of the presenters and their comments about student life at UofC (please correct me if I am wrong). The movie was simply thrown together to tack on to the end of the actual presentation, and was intended as a 'fun extra' (assuming that the serious stuff would have been mostly dealt with before hand).

 

I can also assure you that the movie is not all about partying or drinking (if you watch really close, you *might* catch one, possibly two images of a beverage container that may or may not contain alcohol). Despite its fun and casual tone, it was not randomly thrown together without consideration for content. It is meant as a lighthearted look at what we do, and is also a chance for us to poke a little fun at each other (falling asleep in class, trying to figure out how to intubate a rubber dummy and whatnot). Of course it contains fun footage of social events as well, otherwise it would be incomplete (and it's hard to get pictures of lecture or clinical correlation, as fewer people bust out their cameras at such times).

 

I honestly don't think anyone could object to what was in the movie - except maybe if the footage was of you falling asleep. I can see however, that if the content or attitude of the official presentation itself was a bit lacking in solid information or seriousness, then following that up with a fun little video might simply be compounding the issue. If any one had specific concerns about the movie in particular please speak up, as I would be interested to hear it.

 

I still trust that most people enjoyed interview day, and hopefully had most of their questions about UofC answered.

[Mac8]

Interesting points. I think saying that someone who finds a med school interview day lecture off colour, is going to lack respect and an unbiased approach to being a physicians is a bit of a stretch. I tend to view this situation from a different view point. When you chose to enter medicine, you are not only chosing a career, but a profession, and need to develop the frame of mind that whatever you do, you are doing it as a professional and move up to professional standards in it. There is only one way to maintain a professional reputation and this is by acting as a professional, whether at a christmas party, at the grocery store, in the cafeteria or giving a presentation about your school etc etc. As a physician a standard of behavior is expected of you, and applicants to medical school expect these traits of their colleagues.

[Steph O Scope]

I didn't have an issue with the movie at all.

[Isosceles]

I can understand feelings that the overall tone of the presentation may have leaned a bit too far to the 'we're really cool' side. That said, an informed interviewee already knows quite a bit about the UofC program (although a few questions suggested otherwise ), and there WAS the opportunity to have questions answered. However, please take this criticism constructively when I note that on at least one occasion a question about a valid (albeit rehashed) possible weakness in the 3 year curriculum was answered by the group in a way that did come off as defensive and even a bit hostile towards the interviewee who had asked it. I do think that the students were trying to be informative about their program though.

The movie was great - I was super-jetlagged at that point, and it woke me out of my stupor! Bravo to whomever the fellow was dancing on the countertop!! Due to some technical difficulties, my group got to see that part twice (if that wasn't planned, it should be!)!! Hilarious!