Need some blunt advice please (Age 25, BA in English, 3.3 GPA, how to still apply?)

[Sebbie07]

Thank God I came across this forum, as I really don't know anyone in med school, or alternativley anyone whose been through it either. I'm 25, and have my BA (English) with no science courses on my transcript. My GPA is 3.3, and I have no med related volunteer experience at the moment.

 

At face value, I'm not exactly what you would consider a candidate for med school and that may well be the case. I do however, want to give the process a shot and challenge myself so that I won't wonder later on if at all it ever could have been done.

 

My question to anyone who has been through my experience or knows of someone who has, is can a person like me still hope to get into a med program? And if so, could you please break down the process needed to do so. What I mean by this, is that will I need to complete another undergrad based on my GPA? Or will cracking the whip and doing well in the pre-req courses be enough? Also would a decent MCAT grade help out in the case of a poor GPA? Are there any schools in Canada that are more receptive to non-trad applicants? And which schools are the best so that I can avoid wasting my time applying there.

 

Finally, what type of places should I look at for med-related volunteer experience? I have a lot of non-medical volunteer hours but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be applicable in my med school application.

 

Thank you for any info you may be able to provide me with. I know for many of you who've made the right choices early on, someone like me probably shouldn't consider this path, but I am determined, however I lack guidance. If you honestly feel based on experience that this is futile please say so as well.

[muchdutch]

Thank God I came across this forum, as I really don't know anyone in med school, or alternativley anyone whose been through it either. I'm 25, and have my BA (English) with no science courses on my transcript. My GPA is 3.3, and I have no med related volunteer experience at the moment.

 

At face value, I'm not exactly what you would consider a candidate for med school and that may well be the case. I do however, want to give the process a shot and challenge myself so that I won't wonder later on if at all it ever could have been done.

 

My question to anyone who has been through my experience or knows of someone who has, is can a person like me still hope to get into a med program? And if so, could you please break down the process needed to do so. What I mean by this, is that will I need to complete another undergrad based on my GPA? Or will cracking the whip and doing well in the pre-req courses be enough? Also would a decent MCAT grade help out in the case of a poor GPA? Are there any schools in Canada that are more receptive to non-trad applicants? And which schools are the best so that I can avoid wasting my time applying there.

 

Finally, what type of places should I look at for med-related volunteer experience? I have a lot of non-medical volunteer hours but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be applicable in my med school application.

 

Thank you for any info you may be able to provide me with. I know for many of you who've made the right choices early on, someone like me probably shouldn't consider this path, but I am determined, however I lack guidance. If you honestly feel based on experience that this is futile please say so as well.

 

It seems from the early part of your post that you're giving it a shot just to challenge yourself and see if you can make it. If this is the only reason, then you must seriously consider your decision as the path to becoming a doctor is a very long one requiring sacrifice. You do however say that you are determined leading me to believe that this is indeed a choice you are making, and I hope that's it, rather than just for the challenge of it.

 

There is no reason why you wouldn't still be considered as a candidate. You would need to complete the pre-req's as the schools that don't require pre-req's have a very high gpa requirement (McMaster). You wouldn't have to do a whole other degree. If you did two full-time years and smoked them, you would be eligible for quite a few schools as some take only your two best years, and some will disregard your worst X number of credits/years based on the number of credits/years you have completed. If you smoke the MCAT as well, that's another plus that will bring up your overall rating as a candidate. Calgary is one of the schools that is more receptive to non-trads. And apply to all schools that you are eligble as all Canadian med schools are basically on-par with one another (not a tiered system like in the US).

 

You do not need medical related volunteer experience so you are probably fine in that regard. If you really would like to get med-related volunteer the easiest way to do that is to visit the volunteer office at your local hospital.

 

There are many people on this board that begin their journey to med school far later in life than you are, so there's no reason why you should think you don't have a shot at this point. Give it your all and good luck!

[Sebbie07]

Thank you very much for the reply and information. Contrary to how I came across in my original post, going into med isn't just a challenge, but rather an ambition that I've had since childhood, but had successfully beaten down on account of thinking the process being beyond me. I completely hear you on the long road process, and that does concern me a bit, but I have the will to do this, and the information you've given me has taken me just a little closer.

 

In your experience, does it matter if you do the pre-req's at a university or could you do them if offered at a community college? Are these pre-req courses universal or do different med programs have varying course lists? The reason I ask is that the community college option would be definatley cheaper at this point, but I'll take the university route if it will make my bid for candidacy all the more viable. Also, how does it work already having a degree, then re-registering at a university? Would I have to apply all over again as an undergrad (high school transcripts etc) or is there another route for people who already have an undergrad?

 

Thanks again for the info and kind words.

[Satsuma]

Hey there,

 

Your prerequisites must be university level courses. Each school has different prerequisites, so you should look at the webpages for each school you are considering to make sure you meet the requirements to apply to a maximum number of schools.

Also, different schools calculate your GPA differently. Some like MAC will just take an average of all courses ever taken, some only consider the last 2 years, some forgive certain courses, some weight your later years heavier than others, some only accept courses that were part of a degree etc...

So if you did really bad in first year, your weighted GPA, if you did really well in your last couple years for schools that have weighting, may not be so bad. So it is worth looking at how each school calculates your GPA and seeing how competitive you currently are.

 

Good luck!

[muchdutch]

I'm not sure that it matters if you do pre-req's at a community college or at a university, just as long as they are transferrable for credit as the appropriate course at universities. I know here you can take courses at several of the area community colleges and they are considered transferrable to the University. Just make sure that wherever you go, it will transfer.

 

Basic universal pre-req courses are:

One year inorganic chem

One year organic chem

One year biology

One year english (you'd probably already have this)

Half year biochem

Half year stats

One year physics

 

These vary from university to university, but this is a good list to get you started. Other courses that might help with the MCAT include physiology, anatomy, genetics, cell biology, etc. Some schools don't require physics, but it is good for the MCAT, especially if high school was a while ago (like it was for me). On each of the med schools websites it says which pre-req's it needs so if you're interested in attending a particular school you could check that out.

 

As far as re-registering, that depends on the university you are going to. You most likely will be evaluated on your university gpa for acceptance. Some schools will allow you to register as an open student where you aren't tied to any one degree program and can take as many or as little courses as you wanted to. For others you will have to register into a degree program. You'll also have to research this wherever you decide to go.

[Jochi1543]

I would recommend something like this: 1) take 2 full-time years (if family/work/financial situation permits, but this would REALLY help with a lot of schools) 2) pair up pre-reqs with courses that you KNOW you will do well in (look at your transcript and see what you are strongest at) to guarantee a good GPA in those 2 years. There actually aren't too many pre-reqs, and your English pre-reqs have already been met through your degree. You could do:

 

Year 1 (say, 2007-2008): 2 semesters of inorganic chemistry, statistics or other math (check with individual schools to find one that satisfies all schools' requirements); 2 semesters of biology; the rest should be courses you're good at for sure

 

Year 2: (2008-2009) 2 semesters of organic chemistry, anatomy & physiology (major help on the MCAT); 2 semesters of physics (not required for all schools, but beneficial for the MCAT; take non-calculus based to save your GPA); the rest are courses you're good at

 

Take the MCAT in April-May 2009 and apply the following summer

 

 

 

Alternative path: crank it up to apply in 2008, but it will cost more and require more effort

 

Summer 2007: general chemistry

 

2007-2008: math, physics, biology, organic chemistry, plus "filler" courses

 

Take the MCAT in spring 2008, apply that year

 

 

However, this requires you to study in the summer, AND prepare for the MCAT while taking a large volume of (difficult) pre-requisites in one year. Also, unless you have one very good year in your English undergrad (3.8 or more), it may limit your chances at schools that only look at your 2 best years (e.g. Western). But, if you are in a rush and are willing to take the risk and commit yourself, it will be worth it.

 

 

 

 

Also, keep your eyes open for US schools, they are not as stringent about GPAs (though the tuition is double-quadruple that of Canadian schools).

[Jochi1543]

Also, muchdutch is mentioning biochem, and she's correct. Generally (though not 100% of the time), you must finish general chem and orgo to do biochem, though, say, at my school you can do an intro to biochem after just Orgo I. This often means that you would have to take biochem in your 3rd year. However, you do NOT have to have all your pre-reqs completed by the time you apply - only by the time you get the invite in May or so. The invite would be conditional on the grades you get in the class, which can be difficult because it's generally a hard class, so it's good to pair it up with something easy in case you get a B or whatever. Nonetheless, if you finished your orgo in the spring/summer you apply, you could do the biochem in the fall, before the schools even send out the invites, and then you can mail your updated transcript with your Bchem grade to them.

[ffp]

Just to let you know, you are in no way "over the hill". there was a guy in my class who flunked out of undergrad bio, worked as a mechanic, worked in the broadcasting/TV industry, bummed around Vancouver Island, and then decided to return to university and apply himself. he got into med at age 38, and matched to his first choice residency in a competitive specialty... and was one of the most fun and down-to-earth members of the class to hang out with!

 

Make sure you research the specific requirements for the schools you are thinking of applying to.

 

Good luck

[blinknoodle]

Enough can't be said about checking with the medical schools directly about their requirements and seeing how it relates to your situation. As an example, UWO only looks at your two best years, but they need to be from the same degree, you need an honours degree and you can only have one "victory lap" year which needs to have primarily senior level courses. Start with the universities in your home province as that is where you will likely have an edge compared to out-of-province students.

[The Soccer Guy]

You should definitely go to each school's website and see what it is that they require from you, and how they do things (ex. how they calculate the GPA). Almost every school in Canada will have something unique about it, ex. some schools will only look at your 2 best years, some schools will drop your lowest class from each year, some schools like Western will have lower MCAT cut-off for applicants from Southern Ontario, etc.

 

Canadian schools mostly look at your GPA, and than MCAT scores, but there are a lot of USA schools that will do the opposite. Don't forget that there are personal essays, which play a pretty big role, but I am sure that you will be fine with these since you have a BA in English.

 

Your 3.3 GPA is not as competitive right now, but this doesn't mean you are 100% done. I have known people with a GPA of 3.2 who got in.

You do not necessarily have to volunteer in medical field, in fact you can volunteer almost anywhere, but volunteering in hospitals, etc. will help you decide if medicine is the right path for you.

In Canada, there are not too many pre-req's courses, but it is always good to search around and take as many of them as possible so that you can open up your options to many other schools in N. America.

 

You could try an apply with your current status next year, but if this does not work out, go back to a 2 year undergrad and try to take some of the pre-req's and boost your average up to at least 3.5.

[Jochi1543]

You could try an apply with your current status next year, but if this does not work out, go back to a 2 year undergrad and try to take some of the pre-req's and boost your average up to at least 3.7.

That's impossible....do the math. If she has 3.3 average over 4 years, then even if she gets all 4.0s for another 4 years (second degree), she's looking at 3.65.

 

Of course, having better grades in later years will still give you some extra points. But at a school that looks at every single grade in your entire academic career, and/or has cut-offs, this won't make a huge impact.

[The Soccer Guy]

That's impossible....do the math. If she has 3.3 average over 4 years, then even if she gets all 4.0s for another 4 years (second degree), she's looking at 3.65.

 

Of course, having better grades in later years will still give you some extra points. But at a school that looks at every single grade in your entire academic career, and/or has cut-offs, this won't make a huge impact.

Yeah, you are right, meant to say "at least 3.5"

[siobhansiobhan]

Here's what I wish I'd known.

 

1. Investigate the 'post-bac' programs in the states for 'career-changers'. there are some incredibly useful ones there for people who have not done the sciences before. I'm thinking the one at Bryn Mawr that then has linkages to many incredible med schools, and has a great success rate at putting career-changers into med school. the programme lasts one year. there are others in the states. get interested in them now, now that you know about them.

 

2. Forget Canada right now, unless you consider going back for a whole new degree, with new stats, and go for at least two years full-time, so you have the requirements for the canadian med schools.

 

3. before going into something like the intensive one-year for career changers, do some sciences here in a way that does not totally count. take the high-school pre-reqs if you don't have them. you need to know what you're up against in sciences, it's a whole different thinking process, study process, etc.