Number Interviewed

[Albt]

Just found this site. I interviewed at NOSM this year. Recently I read on the website that 415 people were interviewed at NOSM for 56 spots. In my personal opinion this number of interviewed is ridiculous. According to posts and what I asked the school NOSM does not ever even come close to finishing their waitlist, last year which was 80ish. Why are they interviewing so many candidates? Somebody said in the past posts that maybe its because they want to fill hotel rooms in Thunderbay and Sudbury during interview weekend (cited to the community as an advantage of opening a med school in Northern Ontario). I know at the interview there were people complaining about these numbers. Does anyone here feel this way?

[Kidha]

Absolutely agree with U!

 

There is no need to interview this many people for such few spots. I do not know their reasoning for this and I do not think any other school does this. Some will argue that the interview is 50% and the school does not want to base their decisions on gpa, context, and xtracurrics alone. Therefore, someone with relatively lower scores in this can shine in the interview and perhaps get in. There is not much difference in interview scores in the top hundred or so from what i was told. So what's the point?

 

i think one could take it even further and say why are so many oops being interviewed when only a very few are getting in? I swear that more than half the people at my interview were not from NO. So are they interviewing 100 non northern ontario people for what .... 1-6 spots [6 was the number of non northern ontario people getting in last year, however, the school would not say how many of these 6 were francophone or first nation, hence 1-6]

 

Bottom line they should eliminate 200 people off that interview list and even then they will have approx 120 rejections. Much better than 320 rejections.....ridiculous is right!

[kwasko@dal.ca]

I totally agree with you. I came from out of province and this was a great expense to me. I am from a rural area but not Northern Ontario and am still unclear exactly how someone from NO would receive preference over me. I'm anxiously waiting to hear but 56/415 aren't great odds.

[Albt]

I think NOSM should take this into consideration. I mean its very expensive for us to fly to the north. They need to step up to the plate now and allocate spots for non northern ontario people like other schools do and then interview accordingly to that allocated number. This way we know what we are competing for and we have a way of being able to say for sure how fair the process is.

 

Like Kidha said are they interviewing 100 non northerners and letting in 2???? Who knows cause they are so tight lipped about it. It seems kinda unethical to me, especially if their reasoning is as Kidha speculates.

 

I petition for 100 interview at TBay and 100 interview at Sudbury next year.

[Kidha]

I am glad this issue is being brought up. i have tried to bring this up but without much success. I would assume that the reason is that most of those interviewed at NOSM are still from the North. I guess if I was from there it would not be as big of a deal to interview every year, try flying from the Yukon, or British Columbia....yikes! However, there were Northern Ontario students that I talked to this year that said the number being interviewed was stupid and one person went as far as saying it was unethical.

 

One way or another if I get in or not...I will bring this up to the admissions committee. Its not efficient and a waste of resources.

 

Albt what you are saying about the whole reserved numbered seats is also very important. UBC says straight out that we accept 10 people from out of province and I believe they even tell you how many people are being interviewed for those spots, so people can check to see if the odds are acceptable.

 

The admissions comittee should say. How many non northerners are interviewed and how many that got in that were not francophone or 1st nation. Bottom line they have all the info they should just publish it. Like I said in a previous post I have spent over $4000 dollars interviewing at NOSM.....if there are people that could possibly get a perfect interview score and not get in....THEN DO NOT interview them......

[Guest BigNickel]

NurseNathalie has a point...there will be plenty of time to build up anger and resentment toward NOSM once you are a student.

[Kidha]

NN you bring up some good points about "bashing" we should try to keep it constructive as possible. However, this does not mean that we should not state faults. We mention NOSM's strenghts we should also acknowledge its weakness. Or do we all thing NOSM is perfect?

 

People that apply to this school or any other should be aware of the facts and have a right to voice their opinions "negative or positive". I would say a few uncalled for comments have been made in previous topics but all in all its a forum where people voice their opinions.

 

If NOSM waitlisted 200 students and came close to finishing the waitlist then there would be no problem in interviewing 400 people. Infact, I would say throw in another 100. However, the facts are: Last year approx 400 ppl interviewed and 84 waitlisted. Total accepted was 56 and they did not even get close to going through half the waitlist. So NOSM NN is not in the danger of running out of people on the waitlist.

 

Why do people apply to NOSM? Well the number one answer that most people will give you is that they want to become Doctors.

[Albt]

Did she mean we were bashing too much in this post? I didn't think so. Sorry if i offended anyone.

 

I would like to say that what i have said or am saying is not all too different from what people felt at the interview. I think its important to voice our concerns and not keep quiet fearing that it brings too much "negative energy or feelings". If we did that then nothing would ever change and its not in academic spirit. Even NOSM realizes that as it gives its students a chance every week to talk about negs and positivs of the program.

[Kidha]

sure enough, its perfectly reasonable to voice questions/concerns... it just comes across (from an outside point of view) that some ppl really disagree with the basic fundamental structure of the school.

 

 

I have not read one post on the NOSM forum that disagrees with the fundamental structure of the school. Infact, its a wonderful building. An amazing program. There just seems to be some issues pertaining to admissions.

 

Like I said before and will say again: If people have the right to praise the program and apply, then people have the right to be cut down aspects and still apply. Whether someone will be doing themselves a diservice by attending is their own personal matter that i will not touch. Frankly I think its no ones buisness either. Why not focus on issues that many applicants are having!

[Albt]

wasn't trying to offend anyone... just reminding ppl that many key people also keep an eye on these forum discussions.

 

Are you suggesting that people from NOSM (admissions) read these forums and this could have some bearing on my application? Who are these key people anyway? Throwing that in at the end of your post makes me think that you know something and are trying to warn us (or threaten, who is being professional now?). If NOSM reads these forums and this has a bearing on my application I ill personally call the office tomorrow! Would you please elaborate? (just so you know a copy has been made).

[HappyEnough]

Hi there, this is an open comment, and not directed at any particular post-ers.

 

Just to clarify for you....yes, faculty DO know about and occasionally read this forum and have since prior to the charter classes admission. They, just like everyone else, have a right to read whatever is available on the web.

 

However, please also be aware that a) they cannot identify who you are from your posts anymore than the rest of us can and posting your questions, thoughts, opinions etc will not affect your application positively or negatively.

 

I challenge anyone to find an entire group of applicants and students that have only positive things to say about their program. It is true that we discuss the postives and negatives at our school openingly (the weekly sessions are a thing of the past);to some degree the faculty are quite interested to hear how we are faring in our experiences. Sometimes we overwhelm them with our thoughts and opinions though, so please don't expect any changes you see needed at our school to happen, just because a limited number of student feels the change needs to occur. Making change happen can be a very tortuous path, and it is a process that involves working through our elected student body representatives. As part of learning professional conduct, there are appropriate paths to take when expressing your views. You would learn the proper channels to express your views at orientation.

 

If you are offered a seat at our school, please don't feel obligated to take it because it might be the only one offered to you. Especially if the schools philosophy and environment does not match your learning needs. Otherwise, you will spend 4 (or more) years being unhappy. If the schools mandate and our educational plan agrees with you on some level, please join us. We welcome you with open arms.

 

 

 

HappyEnough

[NorthernDude]

Are you suggesting that people from NOSM (admissions) read these forums and this could have some bearing on my application? Who are these key people anyway? Throwing that in at the end of your post makes me think that you know something and are trying to warn us (or threaten, who is being professional now?). If NOSM reads these forums and this has a bearing on my application I ill personally call the office tomorrow! Would you please elaborate? (just so you know a copy has been made).

 

This is the type of reply which worries me. One of the problems with email and boards and whatnot is that you can't understand the tone or emotion behind what people write. Nurse Natalie, in my opinion, and based on her previous posts, was not threatening anyone. Rather, it was simply a comment to state that anyone can read these boards: administrators, doctors, students, your grandma, your dog if he could read, etc. It wasn't meant as a threat, rather just a friendly reminder. Obviously even if someone in power read this, they wouldn't know who you were. You can even copy my post too if you want... I have nothing to hide. LOL. And neither does NurseNatalie.

[Kidha]

I'm so sick of this!

 

some people look at the facts and have some good arguments whether positive or negative, the forum also filled with nonsense.

 

Look at the facts and an issue that many interviewees had his year at NOSM (number of people being interviewed). From now on i care not to post, its almost not even worth it. The conversation always ends up with people having a fight or getting defensive or feeling a need to say how unprofessional one person is...back and forth back and forth. Like I said to NN earlier, lets not worry about why people are applying to what school, or critizing a person for bring up a point against or for a program. Let's just focus on the issue and make arguments against or for its validity.

 

If we are blind to the facts, what kinda physicians are we going to be anyways? If whatever i say is perceived as a bash to the school what is the point of saying anything? I have a tremendous interest in this school and have applied and will continue to. Now i retire from the forum.....this time i mean it. Good luck to you all

[kahone]

I would think that with all of the other priorities of NOSM (not least of which is achieving a full-fledged accreditation status after the Charter Class gets through 4 years), what a handful of applicants think about their admissions policies wrt # of interviewed candidates ranks pretty damned low. The social accountability of NOSM is clearly not centered around would-be medical students.

 

At least one other school in Ontario (Queen's) clearly cites that a lack of volunteers to conduct interviews is a primary impediment to conducting MORE interviews than the 500+ it already does. In other words, they would probably interview more people if they could. Wait and see how pissed you are at the School's system of admissions after you are offered admission...if it holds, then get involved and engage the admin for change.

 

Another thing which is often overlooked is that applicants are INVITED to interview; and OFFERED admission following that. You have the choice to accept or decline, in both cases. Obviously, if you actually want to get into med school, you have to interview, so effectively an interview will be required of you to gain admission. But once you accept that invitation, you really are also accepting the expense, the stress, the inconvenience etc etc that comes with it. Likewise, while this waiting until the 15th sucks goat nads, especially since the Ontario schools have their "lists" pretty close, or completely drawn up wrt to offers - we all just have to deal with it.

 

Welcome to the real world: we're not entitled to an interview, we're not entitled to admission, we're not even entitled to a reasonable probability of either. Life sucks, get a helmet; find your spine and grow a pair.

[JewelLeigh]

Amen Kahone!

[Albt]

Kahone I do not think that anyone here is saying that they should be given an interview and entitled to admissions. I think its a question of efficiency, respect for the applicant, and realistic outcomes. Kidha you are right there is no point. RIP brother.

[LivingtheDream]

My quick response to reading this entire forum is this:

 

The school is 2 year's young. There are aspects that aren't fully "matured" and will have to be re-visited. This issue of 400 interviewees may or may not be one the admin is worried about right now. I agree that the school right now is more focused on achieving full accreditation and the trials and tribulations of everyday running of the school, not to mention sending us out on placements to Aboriginal and rural communities. As the school gains more experience in Admissions, the wrinkles will begin to be ironed out. If you truly have an interest in NOSM then have patience and see NOSM for the great school it is for having an interest in rectifying the physician situation in Northern Ontario and rural areas across Canada. Things aren't perfect. Even in schools that have been around for centuries, things aren't perfect.

 

My question to everyone is this....who goes and makes major policy changes based on "trends" seen in 2 admissions cycles? That just isn't good research to base major changes on such young data. Whose to say that in the next 5 years every admissions cycle doesn't eat through the waitlist. I think the key here is PATIENCE....the school wasn't built in a day and the perceived problems with NOSM's admissions won't be solved in a day (figurative day) either.

 

Have patience. You know what you're getting into when you apply. You know that you will be among 400 interviewees. If you choose to accept the mission and I hope you will (if you truly have interest in rural meds) then do it knowing you are competing with 400 others. Do your best and may you become great physicians if you are accepted

 

Cheers,

LtD

[paulos]

The obvious answer, IMHO, is that the school is building up a base of statistical data, both for internal and external reporting purposes.

That's it.

Obviously nobody from non-NO is expecting to get in, and maybe rightly so from the school's mandate on retention.

You do have boasting rights that you got an interview, but that's all, just a waste of time and money except for those who learned what an MMI is supposed to be like.

Don't feel victimized, you're just a number, after all.

[LivingtheDream]

Paulos,

 

I don't believe that NOSM believes you're just a number. Telling people that if they are non-NO they won't get in isn't exactly true if you looked at the make up of our classes. There are several non-NO individuals from as far away as PEI, the Yukon, Saskatchewan, and BC, while others are from Southern Ontario but have had experiences in rural areas of Canada. That is just in the Entering Class of 2006. So if you look at the makeup on the West Campus alone there are at least 5 students of 24 who are non-NO...That is 1/5th of the class. Yes, the seats are limited, but they are limited for everyone and all med schools have limits. Hopefully, in the future, NOSM will be able to open up more seats once a few classes graduate.

 

Cheers,

LtD

[DrJaneDoe]

All medical schools interview many more students than the numbers of seats available... There are always some students who apply to (and get interviews) to multiple schools, and when offered the spot- decline it because they have accepted another offer or changed their plans. You wouldn't want to interview too small a number of people and get stuck at the end with not enough bodies to fill all the seats... it just makes sense (from the admin point of view at least). I don't think personally that NOSM is very different than all the other schools. The year I got in at Mac, they went through their whole waitlist...and called some people with offers, who had originally been rejected!

 

 

Just a general comment- directed at no-one in particular:

 

I'm just a little surprised at all the negative talk about NOSM lately... I'm telling myself it's just pre-acceptance anxiety... but sometimes I wonder, if some ppl hate the school so much (and its philosophy/how they do things)... why apply at all?

 

I know its a stressful time... and it feels good to vent and discuss things- but there's a fine line between acknowledging limitations and outright bashing.

 

just a thought of course and personal observation... but if people are truly wishing to attend the school and have a chance, I would caution against constant negative bashing of the school. There are better ways to make an impression.

 

Perhaps this would be a good time to think long and hard about why you want to go there... and how the school would 'fit' your philosophy BEFORE you perhaps get accepted and find you still have a lot of anger and resentment towards them... it would only 'taint' your medical school experience (in my opinion)- and that's no way to learn (or practice) medicine

 

does NOSM pay you or something

are you NOSM's publicist, LOL

whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about NOSM, you pop out of nowhere to defend NOSM

relax

people are not "bashing" NOSM, they're constructively criticizing them

[LivingtheDream]

Dear Dr. Jane Doe and others,

 

Many seem to have an inherent negativity about NOSM which is unfortunate. NOSM is a great school.

 

I don't wish to put words in NurseNathalie's mouth, but I also don't appreciate seeing individuals on here putting her down for her defence of NOSM. Like NN, I also defend NOSM from the negativity seen in many posts. Neither NN, nor myself, nor any individual who defends NOSM is paid to do so. No, we are not publicists. However, we do realize the good that NOSM is trying to elicit up in the North and we realize the complicated nature of running a med school.

 

Considering that there has been no new med school in over 30 years in Canada, and the unique aspect of NOSM's curriculum, NOSM is treading new waters which many Canadian schools don't have experience with. Developing a med school and everday operations takes time to perfect. This cannot be done overnight, which is basically what 2 years is in the scheme of things for a med school. NOSM has been nothing but amazing in listening to its students regarding changes the students feel are necessary and opening up dialogue. Changes are happening whether outside individuals see this or not.

 

I feel, as I am sure NN does as well, that patience is necessary to allow NOSM to develop a routine and statistics on which to base future changes. In reference to the original topic of this post, NOSM has been nothing but generous to its applicants. How many other med schools tell you where you are on the waitlist or allow for a feedback session for interviewees to assist you in a future application?

 

Sharing opinions and constructive criticism are one aspect, but outright negativity and bashing of the school (yes, many posts are definite bashing) serves to do nothing but overshadow the good works NOSM is trying to facilitate.

 

As well, just as you are entitled to an opinion SO IS EVERYONE ELSE! Everytime someone says something good about NOSM, many jump on to the forum to put them down. That is not appreciated.

 

I hope that everyone can sit back and look at NOSM for the great med school it is and give NOSM some time, without such negativity, to work through the wrinkles that come with running a med school. It is not our RIGHT to know how and why NOSM does what it does unless NOSM feels like sharing. To this point, NOSM has shared a lot about its operations with the public and has tried to make applying to med school as pain free as possible. Everyone knows going in how many applicants NOSM has, and how many interviews are given. Everyone makes the choice to apply knowing the competition is steep. Hopefully with the continued success and accreditation of the school, NOSM may one day open up more seats.

 

One last comment, as NN and others have mentioned: if you (plural) disagree so much with NOSM's underlying philosophies and policies then perhaps you (plural) should re-think your application to NOSM simply because their policies and philosophies are interwoven into the curriculum. You (plural) won't be happy and you (plural) won't be doing any favours to the other students who are ecstatic to be at NOSM.

 

Be patient....all good things take time to develop.

 

Cheers,

LtD

[Albt]

NN

 

First of all we do have a good idea of how the school goes about accepting students. We do have facts in many cases just look at the NOSM web page and they will show exactly how many aboriginal, francophone, and non northers get accepted. Its not a mystery.

 

You are right on one thing and that is that not all the posts are constructive critizism. However, that comes from both sides of the argument including you. You have not always been so professional in your responses as well. Take a look at yourself before you blame others.

 

The whole thing you said with "competing against yourself" (in my opinion) is ignorant. When you apply to medical school you do compete against other applicants.

 

Why do you not enlighten us and tell us what you things some down falls of the school are (if you think that you are not a poster child for them). Say I got accepted to one of the many schools that I applied to what are the pros and cons of NOSM? That would be more of a help NN rather than saying oh its all peaches and awesomenessness.

[Albt]

I wonder if anyone even reads these post before they reply.

 

"don't bother applying here if you do not agree with our schools philosophy"

It is not anyones buisness to say where a student may or may or should or should not apply. This is about openly discussing issues pertaining to students and applicants.

 

Look I think the school has many good points especially the amount of observing you can do starting in year 1. The program trains you for rural medicine, working with multi disc teams [collaboration], and in a comprehensive way. It teaches you to use health determinants such as culture to understand the health status of the people living there. Yes these are all good things. People know this and that is why they apply there.

 

Living the Dream - I think that as students, applicants, tax payers, canadian citizens, and residents of the North we do have some right over what NOSM does or is doing.

 

Look I can see how many of you see this as bashing and I will agree that some of the wording is not appropriate. I started this thread and I should not have said "ridiculous" when talking about the number the NOSM interviews. I should have said that its is unfair.

 

NN and Living the Dream are not applicants anymore to this school. If you were at the school you would see that many many many applicants felt like this there. Clearly this is an issue then. You are right is saying that NOSM is very receptive in wanting input the administration is very good for that. Maybe the students there should take some lessons from this example.

[Guest BigNickel]

... NOSM has been nothing but amazing in listening to its students regarding changes the students feel are necessary and opening up dialogue...

Cheers,

LtD

 

This is a statement that I flat-out disagree with (as a 2nd year student).

 

"Why do you not enlighten us and tell us what you things some down falls of the school are..." [Albt]

 

-if I'm not mistaken, NN isn't even a student at NOSM (?). Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't NN choose (wisely) to go elsewhere?

[LivingtheDream]

I am sorry you disagree BigNickel. As a student at NOSM as well, I have not had your experience. I have been a "guinea pig" so to speak in other new programs and NOSM has been amazing in acquiring our feedback and implementing changes. Have they made every single change we've asked for? No, they haven't. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect that. I have seen changes in transparency between the admin and students and I am satisfied with the progress thus far. I feel really bad that your med school experience has not lived up to your standards. I don't believe NN chose wisely just because she chosenot go to NOSM either. She chose wisely to go to the school she matched best with. Just because I chose not to go to say Ottawa U doesn't mean I chose wisely with the things I may have perceived as negative or things that I may have wanted to change.

 

I am proud to be at NOSM and to take part in its mandate.

 

Cheers,

LtD