WARNING Class of 2009

[Guest Buffy Pool]

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[brooksbane]

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[NLengr]

Wouldn't the class of 2010, not 2009 be the ones graduating in 3 years time?

[TNT]

How is it possible that the number of students graduating in three years' time is 191 more than the number of students graduating in four years' time? So right now in Canada, there are 191 more second year students than first year students?

[KennethToronto]

So do we send emails to Tony Clement telling him to fund more residency spots? The way things seem to be working, it doesn't seem like they'll take any actions at all.

[Satsuma]

Is the projected number of residency spots for 2009 available? Perhaps the increase in enrollment has already been taken into account? (though it does seem odd that class of 2009 is larger than class of 2010 seeing as at least at Ottawa it increased)

 

Also, how many military spots are there? Those are funded separately, I believe. There have to be at least 16 in Canada??

 

Furthermore for the 2007 match there were 2449 spots in Canada. 957 fam med spots and 1492 specialty spots for 2000 applicants.

 

So even if the number of spots don`t increase....there are more spots than applicants if the number for class 2009 of 2404 applicants is correct.

[ploughboy]

 

I wrote CAIR (Canadian Association of Interns and Residents) to ask them about this, and one of the things that they told me was that "The Government of Manitoba, for example, has put forward a policy to ensure that a residency position exists for each and every one of its medical graduates."

 

Manitoba rocks!

 

 

Likewise, British Columbia got its act together a few years ago and has many more residency positions than undergraduate medicine spots at UBC. Since many physicians tend to settle in the city/province where they do residency training, this is a smart strategy.

[007]

I graduate in the class of 2009, and that is next year's match...so it's the class of 2010 that is short the spots.

[jaegwon]

I graduate in the class of 2009, and that is next year's match...so it's the class of 2010 that is short the spots.

 

Are you sure?

 

If 2006/07 is 'currently matching' (i.e the '07s), then it seems to me the data for two years later would be referring to people graduating in the 2008/09 academic year...

[007]

Ah, I see how the stats are given for 2006/07 as the first year in the original post by Buffy Pool. My mistake.

[DubZteR]

Canadian Medical Education Statistics from CMA

 

Enrolment in Canadian Faculties of Medicine 2006/07

 

Students graduating in one year's time: 2059 (currently matching)

Students graduating in two years' time: 2162

Students graduating in three years' time: 2404

students graduating in four years' time: 2213

 

Number of CaRMS spots now: 2388

 

2388 - 2404 = -16

 

This means that you're short 16 spots. That means that at least 16 of you cannot possibly get CaRMS spots no matter how hard you try. (Obviously, these numbers can't include previous-year graduates without residency training, IMGs through provinces with competitive matching, and US residents, all of whom also match through first-round CaRMS, nor does it include Canadians who choose to match in the US through FREIDA.)

 

You've got about 1.5 years to get the government to add these residency positions. The minister of health is the Honorable Tony Clement.

 

I wonder if these stats were published before taking into consideration all of the increases in enrollment. I just don't see how it's possible for 2009 to have more graduates then 2010 and subsequent years given that the increase in the number of seats in most medical schools across the country seems to continue.

[kate]

DubZterR: My thoughts exactly. It doesn't make sense, eh?

[hippie]

Buffy Pool, we must have been in the same year! Yes, being in a "squish" year sucked... The thing is, we weren't aware of it (or at least at my school, we weren't). We were used to the classes ahead of us having an easy time in CaRMS, and having lots of spots left over in the medium-competitive residencies.

 

This led many people in my class to take very high-risk strategies in the match!!! For example, in the year ahead of us, there were LOTS of internal med spots left over, and I think a few in gen surg and peds as well. People in my class who applied to these specialties applied to only 2 or 3 schools, confident that they would match. Unfortunately, we had an unprecedented 14/106 students go unmatched in my class. Some of these were people applying only to ophtho, or trying to couples-match to competitive specialties... But several cases were people applying to things like internal med, peds, and psych at only a handful of schools...

 

Class of 2009, you guys KNOW your year is going to be tight, so plan your CaRMS strategy wisely. If you really want to do internal med (or whatever specialty), and your mobility is not restricted, apply to EVERY school in Canada!!!

 

And, I second everything that Buffy Pool has said. We have a shortage of doctors in Canada... We need more residency positions! It only makes sense that we should have AT LEAST the same number of residency spots as we have Canadian med school graduates! And... I don't think people should be "forced" into family medicine by a lack of subspecialty spots. Yes, we need family physicians, but we want them to be happy family physicians (not sitting there stewing because they would rather be doing ENT).

 

I am not a medical student, however I am a RN at the biggest hospital in Ottawa. We do have lots of residency spots, however they are given to doctors sponsored by their own countries (Saudi Arabia, Quatar, Libya, Egypt...) for our healthcare system, those people are free labour and occupy half of the spots in Ottawa. I don't know if the case is the same in other cities.

[Satsuma]

Those spots, as you have mentionned, are funded by their home country. Their government pays for those residents to receive their training here, and once done those residents cannot stay in Canada to practice. They must return to Saudi Arabia, for example. So they do nothing to contribute to our doctor shortage really. Ottawa is one university that has this kind of agreement, to my knowledge not all universities do. It is hard to consider these residents as "free labour" since they are coming here to use our ressources to obtain their training to benefit their home country.

 

Those "spots" aren`t really spots that would exist for Canadian grads. So to add them into a discussion about government funded residency spots for Canadian grads doesn`t add much.

 

Before making a claim that Ottawa has lots of residency spots, it would be a good idea to go to the carms website and look at the actual numbers of residency spots in each discipline that is available in comparison to other schools and in comparison to the number of applicants.

 

If you were trying to imply that Ottawa has the capacity to accept a larger number of residents...sure they could, depending on the specialty. So could alot of other schools. The issue is getting government funding to create those spots and make them available for graduates.

[hippie]

If you were trying to imply that Ottawa has the capacity to accept a larger number of residents...sure they could, depending on the specialty. So could alot of other schools. The issue is getting government funding to create those spots and make them available for graduates.

 

This is what I implied, that those programs could all be extended. Just like medical school spots could be increased. There are 25 Emergency medicine residents at the Univ of ottawa, 11 of them are from the gulf area... The quality of those physicians is no better than the quality of Canadian students who had to go to the USA or even the Carribean for medical school..

[0nsp]

And from the CaRMS website:

 

# of residency positions, both family and specialty, for the 2008 match: 2598

 

looks like everyone is ok for a little while.

[Valentine]

Where does everyone think the spots will go?

[CW VW]

In the CMAJ from May 20th there is a small article titled "Annual residency scramble near completion" and in this article it says:

 

"...all Canadian medical school graduates are guaranteed residency spots, if they desire them."

 

Is that actually true? Does anyone know where I can find out about that for sure?

 

 

 

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/178/11/1415-a?ck=nck

[BlackJack]

In my opinion, the spots will be going to programs that are the most needed by the public: family medicine, and orthopedic surgery - but mostly family medicine.

 

Of course, this will force a lot of grads into a lifelong career in family medicine: a move that many grads will lament.

 

This will cause another brain drain to the US. There is a greater variety and capacity of residency positions in the US, so future med students will definitely know this and use the US as a plan B.

 

Since many of the medical grads will go to the US for their desired residency rather than settle for family, the remaining family medicine residency spots will be offered to IMGs.

 

That's how I think it will play out.

 

 

 

 

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I've always wondered why career changes aren't allowed within medicine: I think more people would go into family medicine if they knew it would be possible for them to switch careers into their field of future interest - even if it was something as competitive as plastics.

 

 

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[0nsp]

Career changes are allowed, they are just very difficult to do. You first need to obtain funding for your training from the government, and then need to find a university that will accept you into their residnecy program.

 

I recently met someone who had trained and been practicing as a family physician for 5 years, and then re-entered to do training in radiology, and is now nearly completed his rads residency.

 

However, as mentioned above, this is definitely not easy to do, and I'm not sure if it is possible for more competitive specialties like plastics.