Guest stallion001 Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 What is the difference between an MBBS and an MBChB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 One is Irish the other is Australian both are equivalent to the MD. Ironically though both are called "Bachelor of medicine Bachelor of Surgery" I have no idea why the Irish call theirs the MbChb though.. ie where to they get "surgery" from the Ch?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Hi there, MBChB is also awarded when individuals graduate from Scottish and English medical schools. (The "Ch" is derived from the French, "chirurgie", meaning, "surgery".) Just to add an interesting tidbit, in Scotland at least, MD degrees are awarded, but they're basically equivalent to an MD/PhD over here, i.e., you can "upgrade" your MBChB by completing a number of years of research. My cousin was speaking of some mild envy that some of the grads have there (including himself), that us North Americans can walk out of medical school with an MD designation without having to do all that research. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scottish Chap Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Hmmm...seems like a few corrections are needed. If you see a British physician with M.D. after their name, that usually means they have a research degree as well as their medical degree. An M.D. awarded in the U.K. can be obtained by physicians that do two years of research and they must submit a thesi (it is not equal to an "MD/PhD")...it takes less time than doing a Ph.D. and most only do to it make themselves competitive for promotion in the clinical realms. MBBS (bachelor of medicine and bachelor of surgery) is the U.K./Australian/South African "doctor of medicine" degree. MBChB is the same thing, but in Latin ("Chirurgie" is Latin for surgery). You sometimes see other permutations: BMBS, MBBChir etc. and they mean the same thing. I don't mean to maojor in the minors, but I hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I didn't ask the question but that ChB always had me thinking...interestingly is that why Surgery is Chirurgie in french?? (or something reasonably approximating that spelling?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scottish Chap Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Chirurgie is Latin for surgery and this is where the original qualification, "ChB", stems from. In Scotland, medicine used to be taught in Latin and the exams were also written in Latin; it was not until the 18th century that they changed it to English. And, since French is a Latin-based language...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Thx again Scottish Chap. Out of curiosity are you attending medical school in Scot Land? Are you Canadian? If any of the above is true, what are your plans after graduation?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scottish Chap Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 You're most welcome. To address your questions: I was born in Scotland and lived there up until the end of my undergraduate degree at the University of Edinburgh. I moved to the U.S. almost four years ago for my M.Sc. and Ph.D. I'm currently a post-doc. at JHU in Maryland and I'm applying to medical school in Canada this year. If you have specific questions about the British medical system, please feel free to post or to PM me. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Scottish Chap, I do have some questions about the British medical system actually: Do you know how difficult it is to obtain post grad training in it, especially if you have graduated from another country? Good luck with your pursuit of medicine in Canada....and hopefully it won't be as difficult for you as it was for some of the other ppl. on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scottish Chap Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Redshifteffect, Can you possibly be a wee bit more specific (where do you wish to study/where are you studying now etc.) and I'll try to answer your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 I'm currently studying in Australia and from what I understand it's now a requirement to take the PLAB if you want to go to the UK (as of this year). I'm not really picky as to where to do the residency training, I'm just curious if a foreign student (ie. not UK citizenship) with a foreign degree is able to secure a Post grad training position. I have heard of Caribbean grads doing it but don't know anyone personally...only seen this in the forums. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scottish Chap Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sounds like you know what you're doing to at least get to the U.K. to practice. The good thing about the Australian/British systems is that they have inter-changeable house officer posts. I know several people who did a house job in Australia and this was equivalent to the training they would have received in the U.K. and, thus, it was accepted. However, know this: it may be easy for you to obtain a house officer post and to practice on a limited basis and I know of a few FMGs that have done this, but it will be very hard for you to secure a permanent post there (i.e. a consultant/attending post). Unlike the training in the U.S. and in Canada, it is often hard to get into a specialty early on in your post-grad. training and you may have to do three or four years of house jobs that you hate. I have one British friend who graduated from Manchester’s Medical School and did two house jobs in cardiac surgery but he was still not able to obtain a specialist registrar number in that area and he is now a family physician (which, by the way, is perfectly respectable). Most British graduates need to do an M.D. (a two-year research degree after their medical degree) to be competitive in hospital specialties. Another thing to consider is that there is still a lot of the "old boys' network" and elitism in Britain. It bothers me. It is not talked about but they can be very aloof and snooty and, unlike the U.S. where there are minority quotas and affirmative action, Britain acts pretty much as they please and nothing will change that. Believe me, I know these people because I lived there for 22 years. This makes it hard for local folks from local medical schools but even harder for FMGs. The American-style M.D. satellite campus medical schools in the U.K. will receive the harshest of judgement. It's not fair but the system is what it is. Now, on a brighter note, FMGs entering the U.K. can do quite well. It's just that it's harder for them because they've not been trained there. In my opinion, the Australians will have the best chance since both systems are comparable. Also, there is now a government-imposed maximum 60-hour work week for house officers and this makes the training more pleasant and better for family life. They don't have the same "boot camp" ordeal that U.S. graduates have to put up with. Also, patients are less likely to think about suing you since the socialized health care system appeases many of those sorts. As a Canadian, you will know first-hand that there is good and bad in that type of health care system. I hope that was somewhat helpful. This is my opinion based on my experience there but by no means do I claim that this is all there is to it Good luck and don't give up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Hello there, To second what you mentioned re: the old boys' network, one of my family members ran into something that sounds similar and which really surprised me. He was hoping to land a position within a certain specialty but was forewarned that, due to his Catholic upbringing (as evidenced in his records where the high school the applicant attended is noted, and where most Catholic applicants stand stand out due to the "St." designation within their high school names), he might be at a disadvantage. The disadvantage was supposedly due to the fact that many such networks of the "old boys" are white and Protestant. (If you've not been to Scotland recently, it's a little different from the wonderful patchwork of religions that make Canada interesting. Scotland's religious complexion is simple. There are three groups of religions: Catholic, Protestant and other.) His counter-strategy (in part): become great at golf, join a decent golf club and invite the boys out to play round after round. I'm not sure if that was a large factor that cinched him a spot, but I'm happy to say that he somehow made his way in. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Thanks again Scottish Chap... I think that pretty much anywhere you go there is an "old boys" club. If you look at the link that I gave to Newfoundland, they pretty much openly admit they prefer graduates from Western Countries...so I mean even though they have a need for doctors they still restrict the countries that these doctors can come from. As for the house officer job (internship) I would have to apply for one here if I were to stay. So are you saying that it is possible to get an internship (as a foreign student) in the UK..? Also if I were to do my house officer job in Aus this would be recognized in the UK? That's good news. The confusion I'm still having stems from my misunderstanding of UK policy. In Australia to apply for a residency position you must be a PR/Citizen, and so I was wondering if this is the case in the UK? Also which are the more "competitive" positions. It's really weird but from country these are usually drastically different. For example here orthapaedic surgery is not considered competitive at all, yet in N.America it is. Thanks Scottish Chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redshifteffect Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Kirsteen, While I know nothing about Scotland I would have to say that London is pretty diverse....just like Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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