Why do people bomb the first year?

[Guest newfoundlander06]

Hello, I am a highschool student interested in a career in medicine. I am planning on attending McMaster to do Biochemistry or Biophysics, but I was wondering, why do peoples marks drop in the first year? I have read a lot of posts on this forum with people saying that they bombed out in their first year, and I would like to avoid that if possible. I have a 97% average in highschool, and I was wondering if it is at all possible to maintain a good academic record throughout university. Do marks drop just because of drinking and partying, or are there other factors. Please repond with advice!

 

Thanks

[Guest UBCGuyFromAlberta]

Newfoundlander,

Marks do no neccessarily bomb, however I would absolutely expect them to drop. I was very similar to you marks wise coming out of highschool, 96-97 or something like that. The reason that marks go down is three main reasons in my opinion. Firstly it is a huge jump to university as far as the amount of freedom you have and what you are responsible for. There is a lot more work and a lot more "life" things that you need to deal with. Secondly is the academics itself. You learn alot more than you did in highschool in a shorter time. That does not mean that you can't get great marks, it just means that you need to adjust to the workload and develop a system of studying that will make you successful. And thirdly, something that I cannot comment on really, is the partying. This is especially true if you go away to school, I have watched tonnes of people get into trouble with partying, but that being said if you don't want to go down that road no one is forcing you. I don't "party" (ie drink) myself, but I have as much or more fun than those who do.

In short, I worked moderately hard in highschool to get in the high nineties and now I work harder to get into the high eighties. It just takes time to learn how to "study for university" as it is different than studying for highschool.

Hope that this helps

UBCGuyFromAlberta

[Guest moo]

The thing I tell high school students is that high school is a lot more rigid than college. Nobody is going to call your parents if you decided to sleep in for your 8am biochem class. I think some people enjoy the freedom in college too much and end up not being able to prioritize. Also, how you do in high school really is irrelevant to your career. I hate to break this to you but back then, I had the 98 average and everything and thought I was the smartest kid in the world. Even got 100% on the math 12 provincial exam (in BC). On the other hand, so did many of my classmates in the physics and math program I was in. However, not all of us was able to maintain the A average and certainly not the 98 average. I think you shouldn't put so much pressure on yourself to do well in college. If you go in expecting to ace every single class, you will be sorely disappointed. Then you lose confidence and start really spiralling down.

[Guest newfoundlander06]

Ah. I see, thanks for your response. It is kind of discouraging though. I had planned on keeping a 90+ average through university, especially since I do not have to do English once I get there. I geuss I'll just have to find out for myself once I arrive. Just out of curiosity though, you said that your marks have dropped approx. 10%, what was your reason, and why didn't they go back up after, if you don't mind answering.

 

Thanks.

[Guest silverjelly86]

It's possible to keep a 90+ average from high school through to university (I've done it). It just takes a lot of hard work and dedication. Let me rephrase that: It takes a LOT OF HARD WORK! You have to know how to study for YOU, not for anyone else. Lots of people like to study in the library for hours on end, but I prefer to sit in front of the TV with a good show and read then. It all depends on you. You have to find this niche, though, and then stick to it. Don't listen to other people when they talk about studying for final exams a month in advance. If you study best under pressure, then start studying that week before your final, IF IT WORKS FOR YOU. Being smart is not enough to do well in Uni. You really do have to work hard. I know it sounds like a mantra, but some people don't understand that giving up a booze fest once in a while really does help your GPA.

 

However, being above average in intelligence to start with doesn't hurt either . . .

[Guest Melisende]

To get a 90+ average you have to work a lot harder than you do in highschool. In university you take a lot more courses and learn a lot more material in a much shorter amount of time than you do in high school. For me, I never went back up to that high 90 average I had in high school simply because to learn every single little detail that I needed to know on my exam I would never have time to do anything else. University is the best time of your life, you should enjoy it, don't spend all it studying. You certainly don't need a 90+ average to get into med school. The med schools wants to see you having a life outside of school too.

Also a note on not taking English, you should look into the med schools you want to apply, some schools have a English requirement that you need to take.

[Guest Madz25]

In addition to what has already been posted...

 

One thing I've noticed is that when you're in high school and cover a particular topic, the teacher will give you a lot of questions relating to that topic until it becomes second nature to you. Once you're in university, the professor will assign maybe 2-3 questions on one topic (you typically cover a few topics per week) and expect you to know it inside out. Sure you can do the 2-3 questions and hand them in as your assignment, but is that enough to get a good mark on an exam? - it usually isn't. You have to do extra work on your own time, which is very different from high school. In high school, you do the assigned work and you're good to go, that's not the case in university. Students usually figure that out after first year (I say usually because some never do!) and hence, marks suffer adjusting to the change. The difference is that courses move at a much faster pace and you are still expected to know all the material really well. In high school you move at a slower pace and the teacher makes sure you know it well. Nobody in university cares how much you've learned or how well you do, except YOU!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Madz

[Guest mesoderm]

I actually thought that it was easier for me to get high marks in university than high school. In high school I averaged about 90 on the dot and in university I had a 94 average overall 4 years.

 

Why? Because in high school they give you a lot of "projects" & creative "assignments". I always bomb those because I hated them. Also, you have to take courses that you are not good at i.e. for me english.

 

In university I get to take any course I want to basically and there aren't that many "projects" and stupid "assignments" that tells you to make a poster or whatever.

 

I was in Biology basically and most of the tests were in multiple choice so all I had to do was pick out the right answer. You just have to study enough to recognize the right answers and don't get tricked.

 

This is why I really think that in university I didn't really learned much and my top-of-the-class average doesn't mean anything to me.

 

If I were to give any advice to high school students about getting good grades, I'd say:

 

1. Go to every class

2. Take good/neat notes that you can actually read.

3. Depending on the class, if its math/physics/chemistry, understand everything & do some practice, enough so that you are confident; bio, understand everything, memorize if you need to i.e. definitions, if multiple choice, don't need to memorize everything just need to recognize stuff.

4. (most importantly) get a lot of sleep before the exam - so that you minimize careless errors - because multiple choice questions are more tricky than you think.

 

 

Btw, when I say "understand everything", I mean it. Be honest to yourself. I can always tell when I don't understand something, but I have been a TA for many years and I know that most people when they say they "understand" they actually don't. Understand means you can explain it with your own words.

 

 

Good luck all

 

Meso

[Guest newfoundlander06]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

 

EDIT:

 

Mesoderm, so you never had to complete any stupid "creative" projects in university? I have found that in highschool, they are what bring my marks down. That, and english. I was also planning on studying Biology, or Biochem. Not too much essay writing / creative work in those topics?

[Guest RoseSmurfette]

I think it takes a slightly different type of person to do well in high school than in university. In general people drop about 10-15% between high school and university. That's not always true. I went from about a 96% average in grade 12 to a 94% average in first-year university. And I know of a few people who's marks INCREASED once they got into university. But it's very rare. I also know of dozens upon dozens of people who went from 90-something averages to 70-something averages.

 

Of course it depends on the specific program (for example, a degree in music is different from a degree in math), but here are some of my opinions on the general reasons why.

 

High school is very structured: you'll be given 30 homework questions on stoichiometry due in three days so that you can learn them inside out. In university, the prof might say, "Oh yeah, you need to know chapter 2 on stoichiometry for the exam. Anyways, moving on to acids and bases." The onus is on you to figure out what you know and don't know.

 

As people have said again and again. The material moves FAST. If you want to stay on top of things, you need to move fast too.

 

The prof doesn't worry too much about whether you understand his/her lecture. They're not going to go over and over it for you. The lectures might go over the top of your head. They might even assume you have background information on something you don't. It's up to you to study/learn what you don't know.

 

And yeah, there's lots of social events, lots of things to distract you.

 

Here are my tips:

(1) You don't need to spend every moment of your life studying. You're not going to have fun and if you feel like you're missing out on the best parts of university, you're probably going to spend your "studying" time moping around anyways - that's a huge waste of time. Having said that, schedule in study time (about 1 hour per hour of class) and make sure that time is PRODUCTIVE.

 

(2) It's up to you to find the resources that work for you. If you hate the textbook you're using, find another one. No one cares HOW you learned organic chemistry, only that you learned it.

 

(3) If you find that your lectures are a waste of time (ie. you don't seem to understand/learn anything anyways), then maybe you should try skimming the chapters in the text AHEAD of time. (I know, hardly anyone ever does it, but it works).

 

(4) Don't waste time on stuff you already know! Some profs time their lectures horribly. They'll spend half the term on stuff you already know and then wiz through hard stuff. If you already know the material well, then study for your other courses or read the more difficult material ahead. You won't believe how many people happily read and re-read the easy stuff.

 

(5) This final tip may not actually help improve your grade, but it may make your courses more interesting and it'll certainly help you learn more. I've noticed that lots of people who do really well are actually interested in the subject (I know, big surprise!). They tend to go out of their way to look up material that interests them even if it's not directly required for the course. Some of what you will be learning is at the very front edge of knowledge and research and that should excite you (if not, maybe you're in the wrong discipline). Read up on what you're curious about and what you're interested in. Sometimes it really helps to organize and consolidate information in your brain to have interesting tidbits to landmark information. Obviously all good things should be in moderation - don't overdo it because you won't have time for your core material.

 

Remember that university isn't about getting 98% on all your courses. It's a time for you to grow academically, socially, and emotionally. That means, go out socialize, "party" (in whatever way you're comfortable wth), meet new people, try new activities. Yeah, I know you're thinking, "whatever, I need good marks so I can get into med school." But I think that developing and maturing in those areas is EXACTLY what med schools are looking for. Yeah, med schools don't specifically turn down a 98% student, but they want to see other areas of who you are and an understanding of yourself and what life and medicine is about. That's what they try to look for in your essays, your extra-curriculars, and your interview.

 

Good luck!

[Guest mesoderm]

yeah there are stupid projects in university but I usually avoid taking courses with projects & labs.

 

I hate those lab reports because those TAs are just out there to take off marks from you. Yes that's all they do. I hated it so much.

 

So what does that mean? It means don't take courses with labs unless you have to, and if you do don't spend too much time on lab reports - because no matter how much time you spend on it, those TAs will find some way to take off marks from you.

 

I'm glad you asked me that question if you/anybody else have more questions feel free to ask.

[Guest heho]

Hey,

 

Marks drop because they are generally terribly inflated in HS... they are still inflated in Uni too, but less so.

It depends on your HS then... however, I'd say if you are getting a 97%, that's pretty inflated, so expect it to drop a bit.

 

And if you stray from straight sciences, you will still have those so-called "stupid projects" to do in uni. But I think you'll realise that "stupid projects" have more to do with life than filling in circles with a pencil.

So stray from the straight sciences. It's worth it.

[Guest satsumargirl]

I think there are so many reasons why a person's marks would drop. Inflatted high school marks being one of them.

 

For myself, some things I noticed in first year were:

1) high school was way too easy for me and didn`t really develop good study skills/habits

2) I was pretty bored in my first year classes....covered lots of stuff I never liked in high school and thought I would never see again once I got to university and could "choose" to study what I was interested in. (at least...that is what my teachers kept telling me...wait 'til you get to university, then you can study what you want...only sort of true...for me 3rd year got way more interesting)

3) I talk too much...I was way more interested in meeting people than studying.

4) my entire lifestyle was completely jumbled up! Couldn`t eat my own food, didn`t have access to my usual recreational activities (or at least limited access).

5) I was chronically tired...I don`t know what it is about residence that makes people act like idiots, but hard to sleep when at 3 am people are playing guitar outside your door and won`t move...a few hours later the cheerleader on the floor is up at 6 am, practicing her chanting as she walks to the shower etc... I met some of my best friends in residence, but I really didn`t like residence!!

 

Not everyone bombs first year. It is completely possible to do well. But if you do you aren't alone.

 

I wouldn`t start stressing now about first year though. Worry about university when you are there....if you even need to.

[Guest leviathan]

Scaling is another factor in marks dropping. In high school you and half your buddies may have all got 99% in that Basket Weaving class, but if it was at university many institutions and/or departments will scale down to a mean of ~65-70%.

[Guest mesoderm]

And if you stray from straight sciences, you will still have those so-called "stupid projects" to do in uni. But I think you'll realise that "stupid projects" have more to do with life than filling in circles with a pencil.

So stray from the straight sciences. It's worth it.

 

So you are saying courses like math, computer science, engineering, theoretical physics and chemistry aren't worth it.

[Guest jaegwon]

Me thinks he/she is suggesting that getting a broad education is a worthy aim and that branching out from the straight and narrow pre-med subjects often stimulates personal growth.

[Guest TheShrink]

:eek I LOVE english and creative stuff. I HATE chem. Physics is fine, math is fine but there is something wrong with chemistry:| . But whatever floats your boat I guess. I work so damn hard in chem and come up short and in my more creative artsy courses I end up doing better. Perhaps its b/c I actually enjoy those classes. I say do what you love, but step out of the box once in a while. Partying is overrated. Go out and have a good time, but don't kill your brain cells with alcohol. ENJOY your time in uni, these are the best yrs of your life, I truely believe these are the yrs you become defined as an individual. Be wise in the company you keep...umm.. I'm starting to sound like a grandmother so I'll stop. . Good luck.

[Guest bestfriends4life]

plusssss depending on where you want to go 4 med school - bombing 1st year might not actually have a huge effect - ie dalhousie medical school , Northen ontario med school - a bunch of others dont neccsesarily look at your 1st year marks.

 

Ofcourse you wont slack off cuz you know this , but many of the brightest , most motivated high school kids get crushed really bad in 1st year ,like everyone has already said - it is the whole transition - but if you do bad ...well it only makes you more set (wiser?) for your upper years.....I bombed 1st year just because I just wasnt used to -" ok we are doing chapter 10, 11 ,12 and 14 and that is what your bio midterm in on"

 

Everything in high school was so like modulated and you had homework checks and parents at home and and that freaking Governer General's award that everyone in AP and IB class was fighting for - but here - no one - no checking - no homework questions - no 'this is all the notes and what you need to know' - nope - you gotta get your head geared for it and even many of the brightest , most motivated kids get can still get crushed

*M*

[Guest newfoundlander06]

It can't be as hard as what everybody makes it out to be. I'd say that its the people who study really hard to get the marks that they do in highschool who go down, because they can't think at a higher level than what they are in highschool, and the people who coast through highschool and get good marks without studying, start to study a little bit in university and get the same marks? Lol, I am probably horribly wrong, correct me if I am.

[Guest treehuggingbiologist]

It can't be as hard as what everybody makes it out to be. I'd say that its the people who study really hard to get the marks that they do in highschool who go down, because they can't think at a higher level than what they are in highschool, and the people who coast through highschool and get good marks without studying, start to study a little bit in university and get the same marks? Lol, I am probably horribly wrong, correct me if I am.

 

Child, shut up now. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to stop you from being lynched/neutered.

 

Several factors come into play at university - the people who work hard in high school for their grades have work ethics that those who coasted may not have. The people who do well at University may just have better time management skills. Your support system (family, friends etc) that have nothing to do with which school you go to, or what degree you're in also play a role in each and every exam, midterm and assignment you do.

 

Don't comment on something you don't know about - until you start University you won't have any idea what its like - not through hearsay, not from open days, not from the internet. Do you think people (on average) drop 10-20% just because "its not as hard as what everyone makes it out to be?"

[Guest Madz25]

Actually, I think it's just the opposite. People that work hard to get good grades in high school already have the study habits necessary to do well in university. The people that "coast" through high school don't have those study habits and first year turns into a rude awakening. You have to completely readjust the way you learn and study. So in my opinion, it's the hard workers that actually do better in university (on average).

 

Madz

 

Also...I was one of those people that "coasted" through high school with a 98% average and trust me, university is completely different.

[Guest newfoundlander06]

Yes. I wasn't implying that what I said was correct, I was just wondering if it was.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Guest mesoderm]

LOL seems like everyone on this forum coasted through high school with a 99% average

[Guest silverjelly86]

I'm doing a bit better overall now (3rd year uni) than high school. I think the added independence really fed to my studying and learning style.

[Guest 0T6]

I guess I'm different cause I did relatively @#%$ in high school.. my final average was 88 or something with 80s in OAC calc and chem. I didn't work as hard as I could've, and my high school wasn't too big on grade inflation but what it was great at was prepping me for university and making me realize I did have to work if I wanted the grades.. so I did and pulled off a 90+ average in my first 2 years at UofT and got into meds..

 

so moral of the story? Everyone's different and coming from a different background but once ur in university you start fresh and it's those that are fortunate to have the right study habits and work ethic along with the drive to succeed that do well.