2nd undergrad vs. extra year + MSc

[ema2iur]

Hey Guys,

 

Sorry in advance for the verbose post but any insight would be greatly appreciated. I am finishing up my final year of undergrad science at McMaster and I was hoping to get some insight about what I should/could do in regards to my med aspirations.

 

So as the title implies, my gpa right now is not good and I am debating whether I should come back for an extra year to raise my gpa and then most likely do a masters degree, or whether I should do a second undergrad degree.My EC's are decent and I am not too worried on that front. Also, I am in a co-op program taught in pbl format so I have the pbl experience for Mac and I've had a lot of lab experience as I am completing an honours thesis.

 

My gpa is going to be about 3.3 after I am done so this is where I would be lacking in my application and where I would need improvement. I am considering coming back for an extra year and count it as my special year for Western because I already have a 3.7 in this last year (and just below the year before). If I was to pass their MCAT requirements, which I think I could if I would buckle down for it then I could potentially secure an interview there. Also, Mac counts all undergrad courses ever taken for your gpa so coming back would help me there as well.

 

I am open to completing a grad degree and not just for the sake of improving my application for med school but also because I have liked where I have researched. The question is how much a grad degree would benefit my application with such a low GPA...I don't even make UofO's undergrad cut-off if I go for a grad degree (3.5 gpa). Although schools such as Mac, Toronto, and Ottawa do consider grad degrees, I am really struggling to determine whether it could help such a low GPA (although I know Mac lets in like 5-7% of students with gpas between 3 and 3.5 so they must be students with grad degrees and sick EC's).

 

On the other hand, I am also willing to go back for a 2nd undergrad degree. I was unorganized first year of university which killed me, but my marks have been steadily improving and I am positive I could do well in a 2nd degree(particularly since my program right now is pretty tough and it's been getting tougher each year-don't get many electives). I would also boost my volunteering and write the MCAT in one of the summers in b/w that second degree.

 

I am kind of lost on this option though because I do not know the fine print of getting a 2nd degree in terms of using it to get to med school. If I were to complete this honours degree, would I need to do another 4 years honour degree? Or could I just do a 3 year degree? Also, would I need to do all three years or could I just do 2? Can you pursue any degree you want if it is your second degree and would you need to repeat all those first year prereqs in that 2nd degree like biology and chemistry? If people know of degrees which they enjoyed and felt were somewhat easy on the marking I would appreciate any of that insight here as well.

 

I do not know how unique my situation is I am pretty positive many people here have dealt with a similar situation and got in as mature applicants later in life. Any insight or advice would be appreciated. Also, ripping on me for one of the longest posts you've ever seen is also appropriate haha. Thanks

[Halcyon]

Hello there,

 

There are loads of posts on this. Check under the non-traditional/ mature students threads.

 

Good luck!

[UserName]

I was in a very similar situation to yours but with a slightly higher GPA and probably a bit less EC's.. i opted for the graduate degree because I also liked my honor's project.

 

you have to keep something in mind.. a graduate degree is NOT easy. there are exceptions to the rule when some lucky student gets by with an easy supervisor and almost no work.. but you could also be under a lot of pressure all the time. but you know your lab and project so i suppose this is taken care off

 

i would support doing the graduate degree however because unless you are very wise with your choice of second undergrad.. and as you never know what happens down the road (change of mind, simply can't get in right away, other circumstances) and u can't get into medicine.. you need to make sure you are on somewhat a career path.. a graduate degree in my opinion can deliver that.. while another undergrad might just put you more in debt or cost you money and not really get you a job or a career

 

but doing the graduate degree and then really killing your MCAT can probably put you in a favorable position to get into medicine in the States for example.. it's my understanding that doing exceptionally well on the MCAT is really a big plus down south but not so much in ontario.

 

on the other hand.. if you really want to get into ottawa or mcmaster.. then i guess u do need that 3.7+ i suppose.. and if you really know what degree you are choosing, then maybe it's better this way

 

i'm not in med school by the way.. so maybe the reason that i will never get in is this grad degree so keep an open mind and think about it really hard

 

good luck

[AndyDude]

If meds is what you are really keen on, then with that GPA doing a Master's is not really going to help. Only a handful of schools do actually consider grad work, most don't. Stay at Mac, do extra 2 yrs of some other degree. You'll get loads of transfer courses and can be done with 2nd degree in 2 years. You won't need to repeat pre-reqs as far as I am concerned but if you have them you can get those transferred for 2nd undergrad just in case. You will need another honours for Western. You can apply after your first year of 2nd undergrad with a 3.7+ along with good MCAT.

 

There are tons of posts on this on pre-med as well as traditional sections on this forum.

 

Good luck!

 

While at it, do more ECs.

[webshy]

My gpa is going to be about 3.3 after I am done so this is where I would be lacking in my application and where I would need improvement. I am considering coming back for an extra year and count it as my special year for Western because I already have a 3.7 in this last year (and just below the year before). If I was to pass their MCAT requirements, which I think I could if I would buckle down for it then I could potentially secure an interview there. Also, Mac counts all undergrad courses ever taken for your gpa so coming back would help me there as well.

 

I am open to completing a grad degree and not just for the sake of improving my application for med school but also because I have liked where I have researched. The question is how much a grad degree would benefit my application with such a low GPA...I don't even make UofO's undergrad cut-off if I go for a grad degree (3.5 gpa). Although schools such as Mac, Toronto, and Ottawa do consider grad degrees, I am really struggling to determine whether it could help such a low GPA (although I know Mac lets in like 5-7% of students with gpas between 3 and 3.5 so they must be students with grad degrees and sick EC's).

 

On the other hand, I am also willing to go back for a 2nd undergrad degree. I was unorganized first year of university which killed me, but my marks have been steadily improving and I am positive I could do well in a 2nd degree(particularly since my program right now is pretty tough and it's been getting tougher each year-don't get many electives). I would also boost my volunteering and write the MCAT in one of the summers in b/w that second degree.

 

I am kind of lost on this option though because I do not know the fine print of getting a 2nd degree in terms of using it to get to med school. If I were to complete this honours degree, would I need to do another 4 years honour degree? Or could I just do a 3 year degree? Also, would I need to do all three years or could I just do 2? Can you pursue any degree you want if it is your second degree and would you need to repeat all those first year prereqs in that 2nd degree like biology and chemistry? If people know of degrees which they enjoyed and felt were somewhat easy on the marking I would appreciate any of that insight here as well.

 

If you could earn a 3.8 GPA in one year of non-degree studies, you would qualify for both Western (2 years above 3.7) and Queen's (most recent two years around 3.75), provided you have a strong MCAT. What if you were to take a non-degree year such that the courses could count toward a second undergrad degree if you don't get into med school on your first attempt?

 

As someone who had a less than stellar start to undergrad, I am a big fan of the schools that have hard cut-offs that guarantee you interviews. When I applied last year, I knew that I had a good shot at a couple of interviews despite my prior poor marks (and no, I don't consider your overall GPA poor - just below the average of most people applying to med school, and thus below the competitive range for many schools).

 

As Andy said, it is possible to complete a second undergrad in two years, after counting transfer credits.

 

Best wishes to you.

Elaine

[Satsuma]

Also, keep in mind that you do not actually have to apply to graduate just because you meet the minimum requirements for your degree....you could just stay registered in your current program and take an extra year of courses....maybe there is a minor in something that interests you. Saves you the hassel of finding a new program I suppose.

[HBP]

Also, keep in mind that you do not actually have to apply to graduate just because you meet the minimum requirements for your degree....you could just stay registered in your current program and take an extra year of courses....maybe there is a minor in something that interests you. Saves you the hassel of finding a new program I suppose.

 

I thought that's what an extra year means.

[mcpherv]

ema2iur,

Honestly, I'd really choose the extra year in your case, as you are very close to being competitive at a few schools providing you do well (ie. > 3.70, 5 full courses) in your 5th year. I did a M.Sc. after my undergrad and although I performed extremely well in my M.Sc., the only interview I recieved was based upon my undergraduate qualifications. The M.Sc. does grant you access to the grad application streams, but honestly, in my opinion they are just as competitive (if not more so) than the undergrad streams. Furthermore, all of them are of a subjective nature, and even though you may do well, there is never any guarateed interview - unlike the cutoff schools that primarily use undergrad qualifications and MCAT as their selection criteria.

[ema2iur]

Hey guys thanks for the responses.

 

I am going to continue reading the non-traditional threads to get some more tips. I am going to talk to a guidance counselor about my intentions and some of tips you guys suggested. I do not know if you guys are speaking from experience or whether you curiously read some of the posts from the non-traditional threads but would you guys be able to confirm some more of these things for me?

 

Before I posted this I was leaning towards the 2nd degree and that is the route I will take, considering (if I was to get a higher gpa in the 2nd degree) it would make me eligible for a lot more schools. If I still wanted to research I could apply for NSERC and do the research in the summers of that second degree (although MCAT will have priority).

 

So I just wanted to confirm if I was to go for the 2nd degree I pretty much ignore my gpa from my first degree and try to get 3.75+ in my first two years of the 2nd degree? Then I could apply in between year 1 and 2 of 2nd undergrad to hopefully get in during my 3rd year of that 2nd degree?

 

The other big issue is when completing the 2nd undergrad is counting the transfer credits. Do you guys know how that works? When I transfer the credits from those first year pre-req courses that med schools want (and if I can do this and how many?) do I also bring along the bad marks with them? (My first year is what killed me the most). Or would it just count as completed from my first year undergrad and they would not affect my second degree’s gpa?

 

With this in mind, do you guys know of threads where people have posted what 2nd degrees you can pursue and what specific courses you can take? Can I just go into an honours degree in geography or do I have to complete another science undergrad with all of those first year courses again? I know that med schools base their admissions primarily on marks because they want to be sure that who they let in can handle the workload so would I have to prove myself by pursuing another science degree? I know that schools say pursue degrees that interest you as long as you still take the pre-reqs in those degrees but I am not sure how this works with the 2nd degree and the prereqs. If anyone knows of any previous threads that discussed this or any other insight on this topic it would be really helpful. Obviously I will still direct some of these questions to admissions of med schools to see what my options are but I do know that even though schools primarily look at your gpa and not what degree you pursued it in, if there is a tie in all aspects of the application between two people they will lean towards the person who did a degree in neuroscience rather than social sciences based on difficulty right? Thanks again.