Can med students take a year off

[xylem29]

Can med students take a year off if the reasons are not serious-health related ones or to do research? (including sick family members)

 

If you're feeling overwhelmed and went into med school straight from undergrad, thus never having a break, and now feel as if you could take that year off to gain some perspective (to avoid burnout) - would the school allow this?

[A-Stark]

I imagine it would be on a case-by-case basis (and probably not to do research, since that's what summers and electives are for).

[Dr.Cave]

Yeah totally. Just don't make it sound frivolous. "I need to take a year off to cross reference my iTunes library with my collection of old tapes, cds, LPs and 8-tracks because I'm worried I might have be violating copyright."

[Dr.Cave]

Assuming the OP is a current med student and not just a premed posting a hypothetical situation (and perhaps some med student lurkers are in a similar situation....)

 

First don't listen to the crap advice from the previous poster saying you will be stigmatized. If you really are burning out or feeling overwhelmed, talk to someone at your school. There is no shame in asking for help when you need it. Time off is not impossible.

 

I'm going through a divorce and I've been asked several times if I want to take a year off. I don't want to delay graduating, so I'm sticking it out. Frankly, I don't know what I'd do with myself if I took a year off and financially the extra year of interest on my LOC would be a burden. Anyway, the point is if you really need time for personal reasons you can take it.

 

Before you decide to ask for time off you may want to look into counseling. Your school should be able to set you up with some free sessions. Take it from me, it really helps and maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed after all.

[MDMD]

I've known several people who have opted out to pursue masters education, to deal with family issues (i.e. a new baby), or generally didn't have any direction on where to go/were feeling burntout. As was said before, speak to someone in your department with student affairs, this is a legitamite issue and time-off or not it needs to be addressed, as clerkship/residency has even higher burnout potential.

 

The one catch is depending on your level, you may have to refresh some skills. If it's before clerkship you may need to do an OSCE or a refresher course to get up to speed.

[Wut?]

First don't listen to the crap advice from the previous poster saying you will be stigmatized. If you really are burning out or feeling overwhelmed, talk to someone at your school. There is no shame in asking for help when you need it. Time off is not impossible.

 

Thank you. I really appreciate the honor of having my advice classified as crap. I'll just be the bigger man here and step out of this thread before it gets any more personal.

 

My advice was geared towards the OP's question of taking essentially a 'gap year' between your last year of undergraduate studies and your first year of medicine, or taking a break to 'gain perspective'. Take what you may, I make no pretense of being an authority or that my answers are the gospel, but for pete sakes at least have some respect for others.

[1234]

Thank you. I really appreciate the honor of having my advice classified as crap. I'll just be the bigger man here and step out of this thread before it gets any more personal.

 

My advice was geared towards the OP's question of taking essentially a 'gap year' between your last year of undergraduate studies and your first year of medicine, or taking a break to 'gain perspective'. Take what you may, I make no pretense of being an authority or that my answers are the gospel, but for pete sakes at least have some respect for others.

 

If you make up random information, be prepared for a flaming. When you advising others, please have a bit of accurate information in your post.

[Wut?]

If you make up random information, be prepared for a flaming. When you advising others, please have a bit of accurate information in your post.

 

This information comes from what faculty have told the students at our institution.

 

If anyone else has pressing concerns about the intelligence or validity of my statements, contact me via PM rather than airing out your laundry on here please.

[Ollie]

We had a number of people in my class take a year off for various reasons (personal health, death of a family member and a couple of people that I don't know why so I kind of assume it was a personal mental health thing. Someone also was granted a year off to go live out of the country with her fiance who wasn't able to come to Canada yet for immigration reasons. They just asked that she do research while she was away).

Faculties are (or at least should be) in the business of taking care of their students, not running them in to the ground. When you apply to CaRMS you do need to explain if your studies were interrupted for any reason but I have never heard of this being an issue for anyone.

 

Having said that it does need to be a legitimate reason, not just that you want to go travel or find yourself.

[Icebox]

I agree with the majority of the posts. From what I've heard, pretty much every Canadian med school listens to their students when it comes to circumstances like this; if you're asking for a year off, there is probably a very legitimate reason for it and burnout is a good reason imo.

[Wut?]

Talking with Icebox, I've come to realize that my original post could be misconstrued. Apologies to those who may have taken it the wrong way.

[Guest soaring_eagle]

Hello,

Im not in medical school, but I've read this thread and from what my opinion is worth I think you deserve some credit too Wut. I've been in the position before where I've said something that was wrong and was attacked for it. However, these things allow us to grow as people.

 

I see there is not a cookie cutter for everyone. When I recently went through a major loss in my life, I learned to forgive individuals who made comments that were completely irrespective of understanding the situation, simply becuase I came to recognize they had no way to understand my situation (same as me not being able to understand other people's delicate situations, since in some cases I USED to feel I knew, now I am much more sensitive to understanding).

 

One of the posters said he's going through a divorce. Haven't been there, but it does sound like it is taking a drastic toll on him and I wish him the best with his perseverence in moving on.

 

Just wanted to say this, sorry for those who think I'm highjacking this tread.

[Dr.Cave]

Thank you. I really appreciate the honor of having my advice classified as crap. I'll just be the bigger man here and step out of this thread before it gets any more personal.

 

My advice was geared towards the OP's question of taking essentially a 'gap year' between your last year of undergraduate studies and your first year of medicine, or taking a break to 'gain perspective'. Take what you may, I make no pretense of being an authority or that my answers are the gospel, but for pete sakes at least have some respect for others.

 

It wasn't personal. Your advice was dead wrong. If someone is in a bad situation and afraid to ask for help the last thing they need is bad advice that says "No, don't don't ask for help or you will have a black mark on your record." Sorry my friend but that is crappy advice, not only wrong but also potentially harmful. I wasn't calling you a jerk. I'm sure you thought your advice was correct or you would not have given it. Yes calling it crap was not the most delicate phrasing ever used and I am sorry for offending you.

 

 

 

@wut: I really like how you deleted your post so that it now looks like I am referring to my own advice as crap. Nice burn

[BlackJack]

It wasn't personal. Your advice was dead wrong. If someone is in a bad situation and afraid to ask for help the last thing they need is bad advice that says "No, don't don't ask for help or you will have a black mark on your record." Sorry my friend but that is crappy advice, not only wrong but also potentially harmful. I wasn't calling you a jerk. I'm sure you thought your advice was correct or you would not have given it. Yes calling it crap was not the most delicate phrasing ever used and I am sorry for offending you.

 

 

 

@wut: I really like how you deleted your post so that it now looks like I am referring to my own advice as crap. Nice burn

 

I have no idea what kind of post Wut had before he deleted it, but it seems like he was saying that officially asking for help can be a bad thing.

 

Unfortunately, he's right. It can be a bad thing.

 

Some literature, though more anecdotal than anything, shows that program directors are less likely to accept an applicant with a prior psychiatric history.

This means that should a medical student be floridly bipolar or depressed, asking for help officially may be counterproductive career-wise. If said student is able to pass his exams and rotations without issue, then it stands that not asking for help is the more attractive option since it does not bring with it stigmatization.

 

The nice, sensible answer is that one should ask for help when needed. But the medical profession is wanting of sensible people.

 

As for the original poster's question, the answer is: yes, they can. I've heard of students, once again anecdotal, that have taken more than one year off, and this is pre-CaRMS.

[Wut?]

It wasn't personal. Your advice was dead wrong. If someone is in a bad situation and afraid to ask for help the last thing they need is bad advice that says "No, don't don't ask for help or you will have a black mark on your record." Sorry my friend but that is crappy advice, not only wrong but also potentially harmful. I wasn't calling you a jerk. I'm sure you thought your advice was correct or you would not have given it. Yes calling it crap was not the most delicate phrasing ever used and I am sorry for offending you.

 

 

 

@wut: I really like how you deleted your post so that it now looks like I am referring to my own advice as crap. Nice burn

 

Sorry Rob. I deleted it lest anyone else misinterpret my post in the way Icebox informed me of.

 

I have no problem admitting that I made a mistake that was made as a result of poor context. I appreciate you clearing this up with me over PM as well.

 

For the record - Dr. Cave is not an ass

 

The information behind my original post was that in asking faculty regarding their stance on deferrals (on the undergraduate side of things), they insisted that deferrals were not to be taken lightly and were only granted in the most extenuating circumstances. However, it has come to my attention that now that I am on the other side of the fence, that the Faculty is indeed very receptive towards student feedback, and that they are genuinely willing to listen to your situation and grant you deferrals on a per-case and merit basis.

 

With that said, as mentioned before, just don't expect your school to grant you leave because you want to spend time travelling the world, or to re-organize the box of pokemon cards you have sitting in the corner of your basement.

[Dr.Cave]

 

Some literature, though more anecdotal than anything, shows that program directors are less likely to accept an applicant with a prior psychiatric history.

This means that should a medical student be floridly bipolar or depressed, asking for help officially may be counterproductive career-wise.

 

Are you actually suggesting that the "floridly bipolar or depressed" student not seek help

 

 

Major depressive episode criteria (some use SIGECAPS as a mnemonic but in small groups the other day I noticed that it is funnier spelled backwards)

 

Low mood

 

Sleep changes

Psychomotor

Appetite

Concentration

Energy

Guilt

Interest

Suicidal ideation

 

This is just anecdotal but program directors refuse to admit 100% of suicides, even if they do pass their exams without getting help.

 

Just to be clear again, if someone (like the OP) thinks they need help there is no harm in asking for it.

 

Just because someone wonders if they need some time off doesn't mean they have a DSM-IV Axis I diagnosis. Also if med student feels burned out and seeks help it doesn't necessarily mean they will take time off; they may find that getting help actually helps.

 

For me getting help was great idea. I never considered time off but I did defer one exam. I also accessed marital and personal counseling through Family and Physician Support Service (AB only?). Both helped, and I found just fact that I was doing something about my situation made me feel better. If I didn't get help I'd probably be repeating second year and that looks a lot worse on your academic record.

[celeria]

Just to add to all of this, my brother suffered from extreme anxiety and depression and never felt that he was able to ask for help. He was in the Canadian Reserves, an organization where it is perhaps equally as difficult to ask for help as in medical school. He was afraid that he would be penalized for disclosing his mental health issues, which he likely would have been. Things got so bad that he started to have catatonic episodes. He eventually committed suicide. I only know about the details of his mental state now because I found his journal shortly after his death. I don't know why he didn't come to any of us for help either. I suppose that he was just extremely fixated on pretending that everything was ok.

 

If you are in need of help, please for the sake of yourself and your family seek it out early. Talk to your family doctor, if you are more comfortable with this than disclosing your situation to someone associated with your school. There may be consequences associated with seeking help, but they will likely not be as awful as some of the alternatives. I would give anything, and I mean anything, to have my brother here with me today. The burden of grief is much heavier than you could ever imagine.

[Julie]

Also if med student feels burned out and seeks help it doesn't necessarily mean they will take time off; they may find that getting help actually helps.

 

Indeed. And asking for help is generally confidential, so it shouldn't have any impact. Taking time off may not be confidential, but I doubt the overall effect would be negative if you actually need it (and I doubt anyone would take time off for burnout-related reasons unless they did actually need it).

[Guest soaring_eagle]

As Martin Luther King once said, "There comes a time when silence is the ultimate betrayal."

 

It would be a lie for me to passively accept that medical professionals or those in the training of cannot be in demanding enough situations as to require intervention. It is sad when those who have no understanding of this assume the confidence to judge them inaccurately.

 

As an old Native saying goes: "Never judge a man / woman unless you have walked in their moccassins."

 

As mentioned, I used to get EXTREMELY pissed off at these situations, but I am learning to forgive ignorance.

[AMmd]

As Martin Luther King once said, "There comes a time when silence is the ultimate betrayal."

 

It would be a lie for me to passively accept that medical professionals or those in the training of cannot be in demanding enough situations as to require intervention. It is sad when those who have no understanding of this assume the confidence to judge them inaccurately.

 

As an old Native saying goes: "Never judge a man / woman unless you have walked in their moccassins."

 

As mentioned, I used to get EXTREMELY pissed off at these situations, but I am learning to forgive ignorance.

 

and W once said, "you misunderestimated me"

[chemgirl]

If you are in the midst of an MDE during medical school and you do not ask for help, you are shooting yourself in the foot. I don't know if you know anyone who has had a major depressive episode... usually you just don't give a crap and want to die. Perhaps you are thinking of ways to kill yourself. Perhaps you have psychotic symptoms, like the belief that you are dying or already dead inside. Perhaps you feel worthless and unable to contribute in a meaningful manner. This is not a productive state from which one can pass their exams and rotations without issue. This is a state in which failures happen and you piss a lot of people off by not being there or not caring when you are there. Perhaps you need to "disappear" from sight several times a day to cry out of sight... those sorts of things don't go unnoticed and you cannot fly under the wire.

 

The same goes for mania. I don't think someone who is manic by definition would fare very well in a rotation. It is hard to hide when one is manic. You are grandiose, argumentative, loud, obnoxious and you piss people off. Once again, you are not easily ignored and I would be very surprised if you could pass a rotation in this state.

 

What about people whose mental illness can go unnoticed because they are stable on medication? Their behaviour is normal and, hey... they would have gotten medication by ASKING FOR HELP!

 

I don't want to sound obnoxious, but I've been there and done that and tried to forge through without asking for help. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Now more people know about my problems because I was symptomatic during my rotations and it affected some of my evaluations. I don't know why anyone would choose to take a chance just in case they could make it without help. It backfires horribly.

 

If you ask for help before your symptoms impact your functioning, no one is the wiser and it's not like you need to disclose a psychiatric illness when you apply for a residency. It's a win-win situation. I sound like a broken record but when in doubt, ask for help... you don't want your functioning to be impacted by leaving things for too long or wishing it away.

 

I understand what you mean when you say that we can't be sensible because the medical profession is lacking people who will be empathetic to these situations. I agree with you totally and completely. Those people, however, are usually not lurking in the office of student affairs waiting to help students in need. Of course, they may be doing CARMS interviews like you say, but they don't need to know. If you get help, they may never have to know.

 

I'm probably a stupid idealist... I speak up because I am sick of all the hush-hush bull**** surrounding illnesses that plague many of us with our perfectionist tendencies and high stress levels combined with a lack of sleep and, at times, very unsupportive environments.

[chemgirl]

Oh no, I think I killed a thread again! I have a tendency to do that