For all of you who were successful..what did it?

[Alastriss]

I am just wondering if those of you guys successful in the process would mind sharing what you felt really did it for you (whether it was ECs, stats or interviews) that led you to have the successes you did, and maybe any tips you might have for the unsuccessful applicants who want to try again.

[The Journey Man]

I think a combination of things

 

1. Spend a lot of time on AMCAS application - I had my activities and personal statement edited by some seasoned writers. I wrote a real honest PS acknowledging some of my faults on my academic record but also noted how I learned from it and used it as motivation to improve (as I did)

 

2. Emphasize clinical experience - It seems that a number of schools really emphasize clinical experience over a long time and with some diversity and maybe 1 or 2 unique hobbies/volunteer activites/jobs

 

3. Have a quick turnaround on secondaries, but do them real well. Treat them like PS and have them edited by multiple good writers.

 

4. Applying early - I tried to be complete by end of July but because of some troublesome LORs, I was complete mostly end of August. I think that may have cost me some interviews.

 

All in all, I received 4 interviews (declined 2) out of 25 applications. In hindsight, I applied to WAY too many schools. I really should've taken the advice here and applied to only Canadian friendly schools.

 

If anything to help your app out, hopefully you can get some good clinical experiences to add onto your PS and application by the time June rolls around.

 

Good luck Alastriss!

[a41]

I wish I had a stronger (better written) PS.

[THX]

1. My personal statement - I think they had a good grasp of my personality after reading it and only a vague understanding of what I had done (that's what the activity list is for).

 

2. Having activities that show that I am a real person (ie. sports/interests/things I do for fun)

 

3. Emphasizing my clinical experience and demonstrate that I had a lot of responsibility.

 

4. My atypical experiences. These are key IMO, because they separate you from the pack (ie. look at the number of people in meds who are accomplished musicians, artists etc - it makes you very different). A lot of people have research, were on the student council, volunteer work etc - it's good, but nothing special and won't wow anybody. My experiences are probably the reason why I was accepted.

[token]

Alastriss, are you still waiting for the Canadian schools?

[Monster]

My M.Sc. degree. I'm going to go ahead and attribute that one thing to all of my successes.

 

Although...even with that I still didn't get any interviews in my own province..gah. But I think for the U.S. it really helped. and even though I didn't get interviews in my own province I got ones OOP (stupid I know) and I'm positive those were because of my grad degree.

 

Also the fact that I had physician shadowing which I think they really like in the U.S. and long-term volunteer commitments (a few years).

 

Alastriss didn't you get quite a few interviews?? Maybe you should practice interviewing with people and get some feedback on your interview skills..maybe it is something you are doing there that is affecting your chances?? (Not trying to be mean or suggest there is anything wrong with you..just trying to help:o )

[premed11]

I think a combination of things

 

1. Spend a lot of time on AMCAS application - I had my activities and personal statement edited by some seasoned writers. I wrote a real honest PS acknowledging some of my faults on my academic record but also noted how I learned from it and used it as motivation to improve (as I did)

 

2. Emphasize clinical experience - It seems that a number of schools really emphasize clinical experience over a long time and with some diversity and maybe 1 or 2 unique hobbies/volunteer activites/jobs

 

3. Have a quick turnaround on secondaries, but do them real well. Treat them like PS and have them edited by multiple good writers.

 

4. Applying early - I tried to be complete by end of July but because of some troublesome LORs, I was complete mostly end of August. I think that may have cost me some interviews.

 

All in all, I received 4 interviews (declined 2) out of 25 applications. In hindsight, I applied to WAY too many schools. I really should've taken the advice here and applied to only Canadian friendly schools.

 

If anything to help your app out, hopefully you can get some good clinical experiences to add onto your PS and application by the time June rolls around.

 

Good luck Alastriss!

 

hey journey man, i sent you a PM with a few questions. Thanks!

[Alastriss]

Hey guys thanks for the response

 

Token - yes I am, queen's (but I would probably donate a kidney if i get accepted) and UWO (upon reflection I really don't think I will make it past the waitlist, especially at the rate SWOMEN are being accepted).

 

Monster - Yes I did, but I got pretty positive feedback from two interviewers, which ended undesirably for me lol. The previous 2 were neither good nor bad, but i did my best to market myself. From mock interviews with friends and counselors I think my interview skills at least got pretty decent towards the end.

 

I know of a lot of my friends that had less competitive stats than me but still scored 2 x more interviews than I did, so I feel it is coming down to me lacking something.

 

I am pretty bad at marketing myself (maybe why I can't stand to be a salesman), and I don't have anything that makes me unique (I never understood why being an accomplished musician or poet mattered as a doctor - outside the bounds of it being an excellent way to deal with the work stress), but I feel like I need to "play the game" whether it really holds significance or not.

 

I feel the MSc idea monster and I am trying to do that now, other options may be going to volunteer abroad. I am definitely missing that wow factor. Maybe its not that I am doing "bad" as it is not doing enough "good".

[token]

I dunno Alastriss...you got some top notch interviews. They wouldn't have chosen to interview you unless they liked something about you or the way you marketed yourself in your application.

 

Somehow that feature isn't coming across as well face to face. Personally I know I'm a much better writer than I am a speaker, I was just lucky that my interview performances didn't really matter. If you've been getting better and better I'm sure you were a pro by the time the Queens and UWO interviews came around though!

 

You say you haven't done anything "unique," but I'm sure you do something interesting outside of school. Do you mean you haven't done anything unique that would also look good on a med school application? Because sometimes you have to take chances. I was debating putting this one activity on my AMCAS because it seemed silly and unprofessional. Yet I was asked about it in pretty much every open file interview, and it provided fodder for a long conversation each time, precisely because it wasn't something you'd expect to see on a CV.

[n00b]

thx, you got into mcgill md? damn congrats!

[Alastriss]

Token - I do do some unique things that not a lot of people can say they do but I just didn't feel like they belong on an application to a professional program.

Maybe it was just a freak accident, but I am gearing up for a MSc (although I am having a difficult time finding one) or continuing with an econ degree. I don't know how spending a 6th year in undergrad may be seen to the ad comm.

[token]

Yeah, you need to include whatever those things are next year. Anyone can get a 4.0 if they spend all their time outside of class studying. Not letting them know that you are engaged in a time consuming activity only diminishes your academic accomplishments.

 

I'm an econ major as well and I was planning on either an MA in econ or an MPH (more likely) if I didn't get in the first time. An MSc would obviously be ideal if you can get it though, good luck.

[silvermen85]

Getting a MSc will probably improve your application somewhat, but the more important question is whether you will enjoy it or not. It is at least two years commitment, and depending on how well your project goes might even drag longer.

[SpanishFly]

While I think it's really great that your preemptively striking on this and preparing for the unfortunate "what if?", don't lose hope, you still have two schools in Canada to hear from (did you hear back from all your American schools already?).

 

Anyways, as far as what I did, I guess I kind of did things "all wrong" according to the golden rules.

 

1)I did write an honest PS and I tried to really just become vulnerable with it, which was hard for me, but I felt it came across more genuine then what I first wrote, and I had a few people revise it several times, and then I went back and re-wrote most of those parts myself lol...I just felt like being true to my own personal writing style was important (while not ignoring all criticism too because obviously I have faults)...but I don't think this is a problem for you.

 

2)I didn't complete my primary until August I think, and my LOR's didn't send in everything until September, so I guess I was very late compared to others...and I think this probably affected the number of interviews I got.

 

3) Like JourneyMan I spent a good amount of time on my secondary applications too, I think they're more important than your primary so I didn't give a very good turn around time (especially because I procrastinated)....this too probably didn't help me very much.

 

4) I applied to 10 schools and only got 3 interviews, so I guess all the lateness really didn't help me, plus 3 of those schools were UC's, so that probably didn't help either lol...so I guess now that you know which schools are Canadian friendly, focus on those.

 

But after all the crap I just wrote, I think what I really wanted to say was who the eff really knows. Honestly, this whole thing can be excruciatingly random at times and if you received interviews this year (which you did at some really great schools) than you know you've got what it takes to get in, sometimes luck isn't on your side..theres so much more to the admissions process that we don't see. My only other advice to you is stop second guessing your own ability, lack of self-confidence can be painfully obvious (even when you don't think you lack it)...

[The Journey Man]

Getting a MSc will probably improve your application somewhat, but the more important question is whether you will enjoy it or not. It is at least two years commitment, and depending on how well your project goes might even drag longer.

 

To be honest, I don't think an MSC will help that much. Its 2 year commitment, lots of work and it is unlikely that OP gets any publications before the time of application anyways.

 

Better use would be from now to June getting good solid clinical experiences, get multiple people to read his PS and really "sell" himself. I think that might be the problem that is that he isn't marketing himself properly.

 

From the point of view of adcoms, its really difficult to understand an applicant without seeing an essay of "why medicine". In that essay, if the applicant is not convincing in selling themselves, then it is difficult to know their reasoning and who that person is.

 

Best advice is re-do PS, solid clinical experiences from now til June, submit and be complete early etc.. I'm not sure how broadly Alastriss applied initially but maybe adding a few more schools would be best.

[Alastriss]

Thanks guys. I have been spending time reflecting on my application and I feel two - three main things, if anything, sunk me in.

 

1) my PS could have been better, but I don't think it sucked. My work/activities could have better organized and I could have been more transparent with some of them, given that they review your file in a few seconds - minutes.

 

2) my LoRs are mediocre/average at best

 

3) I lack enough clinical experience. I have already started volunteering to get more hours since the beginning of this semester.

 

My reasoning for wanting to do an MSc:

 

1) I have a degree that I can continue with in research and go on for PhD, which is what I want to do if I could never do medicine. I also enjoy it, and doing a 5th year was soo so soooo unenjoyable. I wouldn't mind going an extra year.

 

2) I can build better letters of reference. This would improve what I perceive is already a weakness

 

3) I will simply have more time to amass clinical experience and continue with the ECs I am already doing.

 

4) I really enjoy research and I think that having a basic science background really jives with the type and style of physician I want to be (In other words, I plan on doing a lot of translational research and having that background will be helpful).

[n00b]

sounds like you like research. i would go for a msc or just work in a high-profile lab or like the cdn equivalent of nih irta if they exist

[THX]

thx, you got into mcgill md? damn congrats!

 

Thanks man.

[flamesfan]

My personal statement, I thought, was very solid. I talked about my experiences and their relation to medicine and it came out very honest. I also had it edited about 50 times!

 

i dont think my activities were particularly different/crazy but the combination demonstrated well roundedness and clinical experience. I did go away to volunteer but I went to an area my family is from. I think this made the experience appear more genuine but who knows.

 

my secondaries were a little more robotic but nonetheless personal. I think it was my primary that gave me the edge. once i hit the interview i felt I was golden because interacting is a strength. the key for me was really working on that primary to get me there - i spent so much time on it

[Classic]

Wow ... you guys are all amazing. I feel rather insufficient in comparison

 

I did many similar things as cited in the posts above. I think the one thing that would have helped me land a few more interviews would be a higher MCAT score. They *love* that MCAT score in the States. Mine was average; a score >35 (for me) would have been golden

[parachutes]

I don't think all of my points will help you specifically, but hopefully will help others:

 

-A few years in advance of applications, develop relationships with people who will be writing your ref letters. Do the co-op program at your school and work hard for a prof you know is nice and willing to help others achieve their goals.

 

-Have a long-term sport, performing art, etc. that you've been involved in for years. This won't be seen as something you did just for applications (because it's not) and shows you pursue other passions than medicine.

 

-Find someone who knows exactly what med school admission committees want and get them to edit your applications and suggest topics for you to write on. If you don't know someone personally that has been on med admissions (like a med student for example), then use an admissions consultant. Search online. Too many people waste way too much time applying year after year just because they don't know what ad coms are looking for. I learned this from the experiences of others I know at school so I was determined to do it right.

 

-Travel and/or do international volunteering. It is fun, a great learning and cultural experience, and is something you will always talk about in interviews. A lot of people will say local volunteering is just as good, but it is not the same. Local volunteering doesn't show as clearly that you are independent, adventurous, interested in other cultures and expanding your horizons, etc. Arrange things on your own rather than using a company to show you can take intitiative (its also a gazillion times cheaper). Show a passion for travel. Of course, if you don't like to travel, interviewers will see your insincerity so don't bother.

 

-Get lots of clinical experience. For US applications, have shadowing experience. I did some in the US.

 

-BE YOURSELF in interviews (and be PROFESSIONAL). I read this many times online, but didn't realize what it meant until I was done all my interviews. It means not saying things like "I volunteered at this hopsital to improve my teamwork and communication skills, console grieving families, help patients in their greatest time of need," etc. I certainly had a bunch of stuff like that in my written application, but it sounds fake saying it. I was pretty nervous for my interviews (to the point of feeling physically ill) and am not a good oral communicator. For me it was enough to just answer their questions as best and as honestly I could (somewhat awkwardly) while showing I had a positive attitude (lots of smiling) and that I was professional (well groomed, neat appearance, sitting up straight, eye contact, etc). All my interviews involved a lot of smiling and laughing and I think that was most critical to my success.

 

I applied "late", being complete at most schools in Oct/Nov and received 7 interviews out of 14 applications. The places I didn't get interviews to were poor choices for Canadians (Indiana, U Chicago, Hawaii, etc.) so I think this shows how good my application was: I mean in the way it was written and in my experiences, my gpa is average for Canadian standards and my mcat is not perfect. I cannot stress how important it is to have someone who knows what they are doing look over your application.

My regret: I wish I had applied earlier and to better schools.

 

I truly feel that if I could do it, anyone can! Believe in yourself!

[Classic]

Too good not to share, advice from an administrator (LizzyM) on the SDN forum ... http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202513&page=25

 

This is her advice about the AMCAS primary essay and activites section:

 

The essay is a narrative. The experience section is more of a list.

When we look at this we are usually asking ourselves:

has the applicant done anything in a clinical setting? what & for how long?

has the applicant done research? what & for how long?

what has the applicant done as service to the community/to help others?

what does the applicant do for fun?

what did the applicant do during summer vacations in college?

did the applicant have work responsibilities or play varsity sports?

 

At my school, at least one member of the faculty will read every word of your application. Most hope to be able to do that in 20-30 minute. Slogging through too much chatter can be annoying. Being able to scan the experience section quickly and answer those questions is efficiently is the goal. What you learned from your experiences or how you tie it together can be something to discuss in your interview. I've also seen it addressed well in the essay but limit yourself to three experiences (employment/research/volunteerism).

[Guest viscous]

I don't think all of my points will help you specifically, but hopefully will help others:

 

-A few years in advance of applications, develop relationships with people who will be writing your ref letters. Do the co-op program at your school and work hard for a prof you know is nice and willing to help others achieve their goals.

 

-Have a long-term sport, performing art, etc. that you've been involved in for years. This won't be seen as something you did just for applications (because it's not) and shows you pursue other passions than medicine.

 

-Find someone who knows exactly what med school admission committees want and get them to edit your applications and suggest topics for you to write on. If you don't know someone personally that has been on med admissions (like a med student for example), then use an admissions consultant. Search online. Too many people waste way too much time applying year after year just because they don't know what ad coms are looking for. I learned this from the experiences of others I know at school so I was determined to do it right.

 

-Travel and/or do international volunteering. It is fun, a great learning and cultural experience, and is something you will always talk about in interviews. A lot of people will say local volunteering is just as good, but it is not the same. Local volunteering doesn't show as clearly that you are independent, adventurous, interested in other cultures and expanding your horizons, etc. Arrange things on your own rather than using a company to show you can take intitiative (its also a gazillion times cheaper). Show a passion for travel. Of course, if you don't like to travel, interviewers will see your insincerity so don't bother.

 

-Get lots of clinical experience. For US applications, have shadowing experience. I did some in the US.

 

-BE YOURSELF in interviews (and be PROFESSIONAL). I read this many times online, but didn't realize what it meant until I was done all my interviews. It means not saying things like "I volunteered at this hopsital to improve my teamwork and communication skills, console grieving families, help patients in their greatest time of need," etc. I certainly had a bunch of stuff like that in my written application, but it sounds fake saying it. I was pretty nervous for my interviews (to the point of feeling physically ill) and am not a good oral communicator. For me it was enough to just answer their questions as best and as honestly I could (somewhat awkwardly) while showing I had a positive attitude (lots of smiling) and that I was professional (well groomed, neat appearance, sitting up straight, eye contact, etc). All my interviews involved a lot of smiling and laughing and I think that was most critical to my success.

 

I applied "late", being complete at most schools in Oct/Nov and received 7 interviews out of 14 applications. The places I didn't get interviews to were poor choices for Canadians (Indiana, U Chicago, Hawaii, etc.) so I think this shows how good my application was: I mean in the way it was written and in my experiences, my gpa is average for Canadian standards and my mcat is not perfect. I cannot stress how important it is to have someone who knows what they are doing look over your application.

My regret: I wish I had applied earlier and to better schools.

 

I truly feel that if I could do it, anyone can! Believe in yourself!

 

give an example of what you think is "being yourself?" What if someone volunteers at a certain hospital just to do what you mentioned i.e. improve communication skills etc? How can he disguise this answer by "being himself."

[parachutes]

give an example of what you think is "being yourself?" What if someone volunteers at a certain hospital just to do what you mentioned i.e. improve communication skills etc? How can he disguise this answer by "being himself."

 

Sorry I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. Certainly say those things if you really felt that way about it and are being honest. Anything you say will sound real if you are being honest. For example, I told one of my interviewers (PhD) that I wasn't into research after experiencing it. This may be a 'bad' answer to give to a researcher in an interview, but I think they are looking for honest answers from the heart. For me, "being myself" in an interview doesn't involve spewing out well-articulated answers with lists of what I gained from each experience...that sounds fake for me. (It may not for others.)