mildoc1 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Just a question, but if you don't want to go to a country where there is war, why on earth would you join the military? Even peacekeeping in the CF isn't all rainbows and kittens! Don't believe me, just read "Shake hands with the Devil". Even if the CF pulls out in 2011, the CF Health Services probably won't. I just had a conversation about that with a CF anesthesiologist (who has been to Kandahar 3 times). I went two years ago, and will likely go again sometime this year. I went through school with my undergrad and grad studies paid by the military. I have moved three times in 4 years, been away from my family for months at a time on courses, and deployed to a war zone with a whopping three weeks notice. This is the reality of life in the military. You make huge personal sacrifices. Recruiters in the CF do not always have the best information. For anyone who wants to be a doctor or dentist in the CF talk to someone currently serving in the Reg Force in those jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Just a question, but if you don't want to go to a country where there is war, why on earth would you join the military? Even peacekeeping in the CF isn't all rainbows and kittens! Dear milsoc1, boodog, katdb, Meredith, failtes112, gibson303 I am a Canadian and proud of it. And I owe a debt to Canada, more so than you do. I come from a country where lack of freedom was the rule and Canada took me in with my family as refugees. I am willing to pay the piper and help others gain their freedom. Consider me naive, even stupid if you wish, but this is a simple issue of "full disclosure". Katdb, I have looked at the documents to which you made reference, one of which was recently updated, and yet there is no mention whatsoever about Afghanistan. Unless you are able to show me to the contrary, my reading of the latest documents available from CF is that they are consistent with previous documentation - and there is a distinct impression that war zones are not on the table. Mildoc1, I understand the point you are making above, I assume the CF does as well, and why does CF not simply give full disclosure to the naive (or stupid) like me. I happen to believe that CF meant to give full disclosure rather than play a game of 'use your imagination' or 'fill in the blanks', but didn't. To be absolutely clear, I will consider MOTP and am not dissuaded by the prospect of Afghanistan. I do feel that I am entitled to know the rules of the game, to have transparency in a timely manner, and this means "full information in writing by CF available on the web" without the requirement of guessing on my part or without saving important information for those selected to be interviewed. As you all ably pointed out, this is no secret, so make it clear upfront. I am grateful for the information you have provided to us all. Why keep it secret in the documentaion provided, as an entirely different impression is given to the reader. I hope it is inadvertant and accidental, that someone like me in CF, naive or stupid, made an honest mistake, but they should correct the impression given by simply adding just a few important words. I have edited my detailed post to accurately reflect the important information you kindly have given in the above and below posts. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meredith Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hi Future doc, I understand your frustration, and full disclosure would certainly be ideal, however, I don't think it is a point you should waste your energy focusing on. The military is a huge organization and one that is hard to change the policies in, unless they are of immediate importance. I would bet that they think providing potential MOTP applicants the information via the recruiter is sufficient , along with having a general document a little void of specific details. That's likely because they don't have specific details for you - in 6 years when "you" are a family doctor, circumstances may have changed. If you ask a recruiter questions, you are not obligated to apply, so for me, it doesn't seem much different than finding a document on the web. It is also good to remember that the military does not follow the same rules as civilian organizations due to the unique work it does. For example, as far as I know (mildoc1 can correct me since he's been in for a long time, I am going on off-the-cuff information my military husband is telling me), it is not bound to the same privacy regulations or human rights regulations (I don't write this to say they go against them or anything, I certainly haven't seen that, just that it is a special organization that, due to national security type stuff, doesn't have to operate in the same way as, e.g. OMSAS). Good luck deciding! Also, that was nice of you to change your other posts for other potential MOTP applicants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 time to move on, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibson303 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Also keep in mind that the CF does a lot of internal recruiting. There are plenty of medics in the military who are med-school bound or are in med school, my unit alone has about 10 med students who are actively recruited every training night! What OMSAS is does is out of full convenience, for cold hard facts, the gold standard is always to go and physically ask the institution. Trust me, the CF definitely needs GPs in Afghanistan. That being said, if you are a doctor, and you are sent to Afghanistan, you are more less going to be ok. You will be protected in the base, and therefore relatively safe. My supervisor who is a Major in the military told me that they were never allowed to leave the base. And the closest incident they had to being in danger was an attempted rocket attack. It's the medics that are put in the most danger! They have to actually go out with the patrol...and who do you think the Taliban actively targets? The MEDICS! (No Geneva convention following here, so the Geneva convention card you get almost means nothing there). And honestly, I know several Medical Officers, and whenever they come back from Afghanistan, they have nothing but positive things to say, from their experiences, what they learned and what they contributed. So going to Afghanistan as a Medical Officer, may be a blessing in disguise. Also with respect the "not getting full discolsure", lol welcome to the Military. Its a large GOVERNMENT organization that is full of policies, bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, and chain of command. Sometimes things take a little while to process. Example, sometimes you are notified literally the day before that you are being sent away for training. I suspect however the MOTP candidates are treated a little nicer though. *Keep in mind as MOTP, you still have to go through BOOT CAMP. It's called BOTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katdb Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hi Future doc, I understand your frustration, and full disclosure would certainly be ideal, however, I don't think it is a point you should waste your energy focusing on. The military is a huge organization and one that is hard to change the policies in, unless they are of immediate importance. I would bet that they think providing potential MOTP applicants the information via the recruiter is sufficient , along with having a general document a little void of specific details. That's likely because they don't have specific details for you - in 6 years when "you" are a family doctor, circumstances may have changed. If you ask a recruiter questions, you are not obligated to apply, so for me, it doesn't seem much different than finding a document on the web. It is also good to remember that the military does not follow the same rules as civilian organizations due to the unique work it does. For example, as far as I know (mildoc1 can correct me since he's been in for a long time, I am going on off-the-cuff information my military husband is telling me), it is not bound to the same privacy regulations or human rights regulations (I don't write this to say they go against them or anything, I certainly haven't seen that, just that it is a special organization that, due to national security type stuff, doesn't have to operate in the same way as, e.g. OMSAS). Good luck deciding! Also, that was nice of you to change your other posts for other potential MOTP applicants. Well said Meredith! I was just going to post that the Military is not going to say specifically where you might end up as they just never know where they will be in the coming years! For those wishing to know how likely it is, I would go with 100% and make any decisions from there. That way your covered either way. I personally signed up in the hopes that I will be deployed, but I realize that this is not everyone's desire. I didn't mean to offend/anger anyone, if I did I'm sorry. I was just trying to help and to offer the most up-to-date information. Perhaps because I have grown up in a military family the documents seemed more straightforward and clear then to someone from more of a civilian background. If you have any questions about the early years of MOTP (i.e. getting started in the program), feel free to PM me. Good luck with your decisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 gibson303, katdb I hope and believe that no offence is taken. This entire discussion and your contributions have been most worthwhile for anybody considering MOTP. This can only be good for CF and for the readers of and contributors to this thread. In post no. 37 above, I have added your comments, thereby making that post more accurate and relevant to future readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenhamster Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 And with respect to funding, even if you choose to enter the military once you finish med school, you get a signing bonus which is the equivalent to the compensation you would have received through MOTP. So your debt would be paid off. For me personally, I'd rather wait it out. But I certainly see the advantages of going through MOTP. Especially since you'll probably become a more competent military officer by the time you finish med school versus someone just joining. Hi all, I have been through CF application, and just want to add something that the recruiter said. The difference in joining early is that you build up your "service time" in the military and it will have implications on your salary, pension, IPC (incentive pay category), pension plan, among others (although these will matter perhaps for anyone expect to stay in CF after their obligatory service period). Basically med student won't have time during medschool and residence to do Basic Officer Training Plan (BOTP) for 15 weeks, since the med student's summer break is usually too short for this. Thus, BOTP is usually delayed for future Medical Officer until they finish their residency training. There may be other arrangement during the summer such as shadowing CF physician, etc. Try look to milnet.ca forum, there are a lot of info there. Best of luck everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJod Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I too have applied to the MOTP. I would really like to get in touch with anyone who has finished residency and is now in their 4 year mandatory service. I have heard so much conflicting information it would be nice to clarify some info. For all of you waiting to hear re: MOTP acceptance they deliberate Friday in Ottawa and we should hear back next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medgoal Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Thanks for the update! You all seem to be waaay more informed than I. Good luck to everyone next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hey guys, I'm just wondering...when did you join the Canadian Forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medgoal Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I joined the reserves in 05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superking25 Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I will be joining on August 13th unless they get me to sign forms sooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Sorry, I meant in relatives to your university year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikemedschools Posted July 15, 2010 Report Share Posted July 15, 2010 Does anybody know how many MOTP spots and applicants were there for this year(2010)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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