the Formula 1 chat corner

[deeman101]

Anybody else following the absolutely awesome 2009 F1 season? I love how Ferrari and Mclaren are getting their asses handed to them by Red Bull racing and Brawn GP. Especially since Brawn doesn't have a sponsor. They didn't even know if they had funds to make the Australian GP! LOL. Although apparently Virgin is set to jump in to back Brawn GP.

 

It seems 2010 F1 is going to be even more exciting though with the budget cap and the new rules. I want to see awd F1 cars!

[The Law]

I don't watch F1, but GOOD ON YOU for making another sports thread.

[deeman101]

Haha. It doesn't seem like many other premeds watch F1 then...

[NLengr]

It seems 2010 F1 is going to be even more exciting though with the budget cap and the new rules. I want to see awd F1 cars!

 

AWD isn't a great system for F1 IMO. Too much weight (in F1 weight is life) for not enough advantage. They're racing on pavement tracks, and don't have to start from a stop very often, so there is minimal advantages to them. You can get all the F1 grip you need from super expensive tires and massive aerodynamic ground force. AWD in rally racing on the other hand....

[deeman101]

Yea but FIA restricts the amount of downforce a car can run and the tires are all supplied by the same manufacturer. So awd can be a real advantage for teams that use it. Coming out of corners a driver can get on full-throttle earlier with awd without the risk of wiping out. Plus for 2010 new regulations mean that all cars have a minimum weight that is 50kg more than before, so why not put that extra weight into awd? Most likely if a team implements it it'll be through the KERS system, which has proven so far to be useless for its intended purpose. Red Bull and Brawn still don't run it, and yet they are leading the season. I think KERS is better used to power the front wheels for corner-exit situations, where awd is the most useful. Regardless the new ~$80million budget cap means that teams have to choose their strategy in developing their cars very carefully.

 

Personally I think teams should be allowed unlimited development resources, but they must allow other teams to buy their parts for really cheap. For example, if another team wanted to buy their engine they must sell it for $100k a pop. That way you won't have the big power Ferrari & Mercedes engines squashing the crappy Honda / Toyota engines, which was the main problem last year. This keeps Ferrari from spending huge amounts of money on engine development (cause they'll have huge losses if they have to sell it) and it allows other teams to buy really good engines for cheap instead of shelling out money to develop their own engines.

[NLengr]

Personally I think teams should be allowed unlimited development resources, but they must allow other teams to buy their parts for really cheap. For example, if another team wanted to buy their engine they must sell it for $100k a pop. That way you won't have the big power Ferrari & Mercedes engines squashing the crappy Honda / Toyota engines, which was the main problem last year.

 

Toyota's lack of ability to create a good engine is more of a technical skill problem rather than a money issue. They are the largest car manufacturer in the world.

 

F1 is just as much an competition of engineers as it is a competition of drivers. Forcing teams to share technology would ruin that aspect of the sport.

 

On top of that, a large amount of the technology worked on for F1 is used in future developments of road cars (directly or indirectly). If other teams/companies could simply buy the products for cheap than why sink the money into the R&D, when someone else gets all your hard work for cheap. It'll hurt overall development in the auto industry.

[deeman101]

Toyota's lack of ability to create a good engine is more of a technical skill problem rather than a money issue. They are the largest car manufacturer in the world.

 

F1 is just as much an competition of engineers as it is a competition of drivers. Forcing teams to share technology would ruin that aspect of the sport.

 

On top of that, a large amount of the technology worked on for F1 is used in future developments of road cars (directly or indirectly). If other teams/companies could simply buy the products for cheap than why sink the money into the R&D, when someone else gets all your hard work for cheap. It'll hurt overall development in the auto industry.

 

Toyota may be the largest car manufacturer in the world, but they certainly do not invest as much money into their F1 program as Ferrari or Mercedes/Mclaren.

 

True F1 is very much an exercise in engineering ability, but the way F1 has been going lately FIA has been severely limiting this engineering ability themselves. F1 cars are forced to run v8s that are rev-limited with no cam phasing technology, no traction control, etc. Hell some road cars have these things which aren't even allowed in F1 cars! Every time there is a new innovation in F1 the FIA squash it. The exception being the gearboxes and a few other things. So if we keep the status quo then engineering advancement will be limited anyways. Compare this to if we let teams do whatever they want, there will always be tensions between Ferrari and McMerc on who is going to come out with the better engineered cars. I don't think either one would rather be lazy and design cheap stuff so that other teams won't buy it. Its like the cold war arms race, only the advancements that come from this profits everyone, and fans still get exciting races.

[av3rt]

The reason the FIA squash so many developments is to keep the drivers involved. If you're going to have traction control etc. you might as well put the cars on rails. That's the reason they slicks back and imposed such strict aerodynamic regulations

 

While teams evening is nice to see, budget caps are ridiculous. F1 is F1 because it is the premier motor sport on the planet. If you want a $40M car, then NASCAR or KART is more your style. Same goes for the technology sharing. Testing restrictions are pretty stupid as well, because it makes it difficult/impossible for teams to improve throughout a season. How are teams like BMW and Renault supposed to catch up if they can't develop their cars.

[deeman101]

I think you guys are getting the wrong impression with "technology sharing". I don't mean F1 should turn into a spec series or something. And certainly not like NASCAR where all the chassis are the same, all the engines are built by the same manufacturer, etc. I just thought of an extension of whats already happening today. Really Ferrari and McMerc are the guys with the good engines. And thats why the other teams are using them. Last year BAR-Honda was using the stupid Honda engine and Button got nowhere. Now they strap in a McMerc engine and hes flying. Yes I realize there are other factors to Button's performance but the engine played a big role. So why not force Ferrari and McMerc to sell it cheap for newcomers? I think its a good way to level the field while avoiding budget caps (stupid as hell), technology limitations (uber stupid), etc. FIA need to come up with radical new approaches to help level the field for the pros and newcomers without being so nazi about the rules. Yes the rules finally brought back some action after many years, but limiting the engineering/tech that teams use is not the way to do it.