Funding for SGU

[atb009]

hey all...sorry to bring up another topic but i was wondering if anyone can give me an idea as to how my chances would be for SGU and SABA with a 3.67gpa but 24 on MCAT...and decent research and extracurriculars.thanks

[uvicstudent]

hey all...sorry to bring up another topic but i was wondering if anyone can give me an idea as to how my chances would be for SGU and SABA with a 3.67gpa but 24 on MCAT...and decent research and extracurriculars.thanks

 

Your question would be better answered on the forums on http://www.valuemd.com, just look up the schools to which you are interested in applying and look at the admissions threads. Having said that I am pretty sure you would get in to one of the schools you mentioned with your GPA.

 

I don't know your specific situation, but in general it would be best to really study and get your MCAT to at least a 30, and then apply next cycle in Canada and very broadly in the states. With your GPA and a 30+ MCAT you would have a very good chance at getting into an American school if you applied to many schools that are Canadian-friendly(to find these schools, search the american section of this forum).

 

Good luck.

[Rayven]

That is very true. That is why I don't bother coming here anymore.

People just talk out of their back side without knowing what is really going on.

Everyone but you I assume.

 

The attrition rate at SGU is not HIGH. Not even MEDIUM. Canadians do very well at SGU.

"HIGH", "MEDIUM",... do you have any actual numbers so we can quantitatively compare what is considered "high" or "medium"? It has to be "high" or "medium" compared to something. If we make the assumption that med schools in Canada have low attrition rates then what does that make SGU? Need numbers.

 

1. You have a chance to decell (withdraw from classes and get to repeat the class you withdrew from.

 

2. You don't re-pay for the classes, but you do pay student fees (~4-5K a term).

 

3. You can decell twice, but that is rare. There is counsellings and learning services to help you learn better.

Does student fees include housing?

 

I am now 3rd year doing my rotations in the US, along side US med students and with previous Canadian SGU grads who are doing just fine in residency and fellowship. Having rotations in the US is huge compared to Irish or Australian medical schools. In my research into residency programs to apply to every 2nd program said US clinical experience preferred or required. But I am not going to argue with you if you disagree. Of course I go to SGU and you don't.

 

If you are interested in knowing more, you should check out valuemd.com

The biggest issue with Caribbean med schools and those in the UK and Australia has always been that it's much easier for a Canadian who graduates in an Australian med school to start their practice in Australia if they're unable to come back to Canada or the States. However, a Caribbean med graduate who fails to get into the States has a worthless MD that can only be used in the Caribbean.

[Rayven]

Oh btw..

 

http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives09-sgusom-canadian-clinical-affiliation.html

 

After many months of negotiations, St. George’s University has secured a formal affiliation agreement for a clinical program in Canada.

 

Beginning January 2010, St. George’s University School of Medicine will officially add University of British Columbia’s (UBC) Vancouver General Hospital (VGH) to its impressive list of clinical affiliates. A pilot program has been established and approved by the College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia (CPSBC), the licensing and regulatory body for all physicians and surgeons in the province. Each year the program will allow up to 32 SGUSOM students in their senior year to continue their medical training in the UBC hospital system by rotating through psychiatry for a six week elective.

 

sure, i'll elaborate...

 

first i have to say that i completely agree with leviathan in that there is a big spread between the us students and the ones who didn't get in in canada. if you go to an sgu event, they'll even tell you that the cdn students are very competitive applicants and do very well there.

I find that hilarious. Do they then turn around and tell the American med students that they tend to do terrible at their school? LOL

 

with regards to some of the points mentioned above:

 

 

-carib schools let in anyone just to flunk them out and collect some cash: not true, a 3.0 will likely not get you in to saba or sgu. neither of these schools are short on applicants and both stand to make more if they pick people that will make it all the way through

I've actually attended one of their conventions here in Toronto and spoken to their admissions people. I also have 2 friends in SGU and 1 at Ross. The two at SGU got in with a 3.2 and a 3.5 and the one at Ross was about a 3.1.

 

- high attrition rates: these schools are second chances for a lot of people. of course there are going to be people who struggle, as i'm sure people do in Australia and I know people do in the US. this is not to say that all of these people struggle because they shouldn't be in med school in the first place. sure the academics are a struggle for some, but if you are realistic about your own abilities and know your skills and motivation are sufficient, you likely have nothing to worry about. what a lot of people fail to mention and is a big factor when going to the carib, is that living on one of these islands is a huge adjustment to add onto the stress of the academics. a lot of people struggle with this and it is an element that should be taken into account when considering going to school in a foreign and developing country. not to mention there are also people who have family, medical and financial issues as well. to brush the entire attrition off to people being lazy or not having what it takes is just inaccurate. this is not even to mention those that leave after getting in somewhere in the us or canada, which is a significant number that would be included in 'attrition' if calculated by subtracting the grad class from the entering class.

To sum up what you said here: basically a lot of people drop out of SGU because of many reasons other than academics (ie stress, moving out and living on their own, family, financial.. and even medical reasons?). To be honest, I find the latter reasons to be rather bogus. You're about to commit around $200,000 and 4 years of your life but you didn't plan around the financial and medical aspects that would cause you to fail and drop out?

 

Secondly, how many SGU students actually manage to leave and transfer to a US or Canadian med school? I thought I read that only one US med student managed to pull that stunt. I certainly don't think it's the norm nor do I think it'd effect attrition rates to nearly the degree you're suggesting it would.

 

-going to school in a 'non-supportive' environment: again i'm only talking about sgu, but i don't know what kind of support is missing down there. the teachers are for the most part excellent and very open to helping students. since research is not a big focus, most of the profs are there to teach. if one does struggle academically, there are so many free tutoring (DES) sessions on campus you couldn't possibly attend them all. if one needs counseling support, it is also free, readily available and i believe just got accredited by some us body. as much as sgu gets slammed for being a for-profit school, they do way more than they need to to just keep students coming. it is in their best interest after all to ensure students make it through the whole four years (more revenue per student) and match well (more new students). while the chancellor who owns the school is a businessman first and foremost, he does do a lot for the school. ensuring student success only protects his investments over the long term.

This seems to contradict your statement earlier that SGU students drop out because of the stress and new environment...

 

repeating a semester: i don't know anyone who has done this at sgu. they are very good at tracking your progress there and if you struggle, they will help you. if needed, people decel (take less courses per term) or repeat the courses they failed, but not usually a whole semester. they also have exams as you progress to make sure you are mastering the knowledge and won't let you write the steps if you're not. again it is not in their best interest to have people failing the boards or going into clinicals unprepared.

Well if you don't know anyone then it must be true..

 

Just reading what leviathan posted seems to be in complete contradiction to what you posted. But hey, he's saba.

 

If what you're saying about SGU is true, then I am happy to hear that. Despite what others say, at least most Caribbean schools are accepting too many applicants than they have clinical rotations for, with the understanding that many of them won't make it through.The minimum pass here is a 75%, and the exams are NOT easy. That said, we are prepared well for the shelf exams and usually the class average is much higher than the US med school average. I don't have stats but I believe the same is true for the USMLE.

[Rayven]

Way to dig up an old thread!

 

I'm not sure why you even care if there's no way you'd ever go to a Carib school, but I'll play anyway...

The threads not even a month old man. I just realized that I never bothered responding to your "counter" argument. So my bad. Cute though how fast you homed in on this thread though... o.O

 

I don't understand why it's important if I'd consider going to the Caribbean med schools or not. All I'm doing is debating with you. I don't know why you have to make this personal? And for the record, I don't really ever recall saying that I'd never go to the Carib. It'd probably be one of my last choices, yes, but don't put words in my mouth. >.>

 

Why would they need to do that? They have no shortage of US applicants that won't even make the SGU cut. Cdn applicants have higher averages and bring up their numbers. It's to their advantage to have more Cdns. If you look into it, you'll see that Cdns are making up increasing proportions of SGU and Saba's class each year.

You're missing the point completely. If the adcoms are taking the Canadian SGU med applicants aside and telling them that Canadians tend to do awesome at SGU then you have to ask yourself the simple question: Awesome relative to who?

 

The point I was making was that it's funny that the SGU adcoms would take the Canadian students aside and praise them. It's like if you have 2 kids and one is smarter than the other. You praise the smart one for being smarter but then what do you tell the other kid? lol

 

Like I said, a 3.0 won't get you into Saba or SGU. A 3.2 and a 3.5 are way higher than a 3.0 - ask anyone that's currently trying to bring up their grades by doing more classes. To gain 0.2 or 0.5 points takes a lot. Ross isn't in the same ballpark as SGU or Saba in my opinion. I'm sure you'd get in there with a 3.1.

A 3.0 is about a 73.

A 3.1 is about 74-75.

A 3.2 is about a 75-76.

A 3.3 is about a 77.

A 3.5 is about a 78.

 

It's not "way higher". I spoke to their adcoms and they said generally people with a 3.0 are accepted. Anything less requires some better ECs, etc.

 

Think about it. If you're saying Canadians go to SGU with higher averages than Americans and most Canadians who can't make it to Canadian med schools have under 3.6 cGPA. Then American applicants must have less than 3.5-3.6 easily. And since both my Canadian friends at SGU got in with like 3.2 and 3.5... >.>

 

Yes, people's financial situations can change over the course of 4 years, especially when currencies fluctuate by huge amounts, people are planning on savings or parental incomes that were wiped out with the stock market crashes or job losses. And people do get sick (either themselves or family members) and have to go home. Are you honestly planning on going into medicine thinking that illness is something you can plan ahead for? No one goes down there planning such things will happen, but as the expression goes, sh!t happens. We even had one person pass away last semester, which certainly was unplanned. You should go spend a few months on one of these islands before you belittle the adjustment it takes.

Well damn! Death is certainly a medical reason! But I honestly can't believe you used that as a reason for SGU's attrition rates. lol!

 

But in all seriousness, I don't see how "savings" could be wiped out. Yes, I'm sure you'd lose some when the dollar goes down (although it was at a record high this past year). But definitely not lose to the point you'd have to drop out of med school half way through.

 

Parental income is definitely something to consider. If you're relying on that then I would advise you to have some sort of savings or plan b should your parents suddenly lose their income especially if you know your parents' line of work is unstable.

 

And finally if you have all the money you need to pay for med school in stocks.. then really.. you're literally gambling with your future aren't you?

 

The only valid point you brought up was illness. But if you get sick then you better be damn sick because dropping out will cost you however many years you were on the island + tuition + cost of living which I gather is... well... expensive. ^^

 

I'm not belittling the adjustment it takes but I do think you're overplaying it.

 

Anyways, I highly doubt SGU's attrition rate is mostly based on students or their family getting sick or the students just dying themselves. >_>

 

Again, you obviously haven't done your homework. The guy you are referring to didn't pull some stunt. I believe he had a 4.0 or close to it and killed Step 1. He also just matched to a competitive specialty. About 10% of US citizens transfer back to a US school, which does warrant consideration when trying to calculate attrition. Cdns can't transfer back, which I've noted in other posts.

Citation?

 

Because it sounds like this guy aced everything still "barely" got a transfer. Your 10% seems rather high.

 

No it doesn't. My point was that SGU is not an unsupported environment. There is lots of support. A supportive environment is never going to be capable of preventing all attrition. This is true at any school.

So there's apparently so much stress and adjusting to the island is takes too much for so many SGU students that they drop out even in this supportive environment? And in such high record numbers compared to regular MD schools and DO schools? Oh.. and the fact that SGU knows that it doesn't have nearly enough placement spots for the number of 1st year intakes it does.

 

Again, not true. Leviathan posted that most schools are admitting more that they can put through. SGU is different than most schools, in that most schools (i.e. none) did not recently sign a hundred million US dollar deal to secure exclusivity for clinical spots in the HHC hospitals in New York. SGU did and can kick other international schools out of those hospitals in order to place their students. This means SGU is in a much better position to put large class sizes through. This is aslo one of the reasons why people are willing to pay so much more to go to SGU over Saba or other schools. Sure they admit some people that may not make it through, but why not give them a chance. You need a 2.5 GPA to make it through SGU which is not that high and very doable. Everyone who gets admitted to SGU has the chance to get a 4.0 and there is no curving of the grades so a certain number fail. If everyone passes, everyone gets through the program.

That's a lot of words. Just give it to me in numbers.

 

How many hopeful med students does SGU admit in 1st year, how many drop out before completing the program, and how many placements are there in total for the SGU students.

 

Thanks for playing.

[Rayven]

It's not personal at all. I could care less if you 'bother' to respond. I only 'bother' to do the same since I think it's unfortunate how much of what is put out there is untrue...

Well apparently you do care since I never asked if you cared.

 

And what exactly is so untrue that we need you to come save the day? Don't be vague about it.

 

What exactly is your point? Who cares why they like Cdns or what they say or don't say to other applicants? The only reason why it's even relevant is that in the past Cdns have done well and are thus less likely to be part of the attrition that is so commonly used as an arguement against going to SGU. Of course this is relative to the rest of the student body. Who else would this be relative to?

My point was stated when I stated:

"The point I was making was that it's funny that the SGU adcoms would take the Canadian students aside and praise them. It's like if you have 2 kids and one is smarter than the other. You praise the smart one for being smarter but then what do you tell the other kid? lol"

 

It's funny as ****. That's the point. It's 2 part. First, it's like if UofT praised all the asian kids because they tend to do well and then just ignored the rest. Secondly, it's funny because SGU is obviously trying to recruit students despite you claiming that they have more than enough students otherwise I wouldn't be getting a damn nice glossy coloured 1/4 lb admissions package from them every year. So assuming you're Canadian, it's funny that you wouldn't think there might be another reason why SGU would tell you that Canadians do well. I don't know about you but I totally get a used car salesman vibe.

 

In the world of med school admissions, a 0.5 difference in GPA is pretty significant anywhere. I'm not sure what you're getting at with the rest there. A Cdn or an American with a 3.5-3.6 should be applying to US schools...

...of course a 0.5 makes a difference. But I'm saying a friend of mine got in with a 3.2 and SGU adcoms have said that they regularly admit 3.0's and here you are arguing what exactly? **** yes, I know that a 0.5 is a huge difference. But the difference between a 3.0 and a 3.2 (which you kept ranting was huge) is only the difference between about a 73% and a 75%.

 

Honestly, you're the one that I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

 

So a 3.5-3.6 should apply to Canadian (not as likely) or American med schools. So basically you're saying those with 3.4 or under should apply to Caribb? If that's the case then we're looking at about a 4% difference between 3.0 and a 3.4.

 

I didn't use it as a reason for the attrition rate. I used it as an example of unexpected health problems that no one plans for or anticipates like you suggested they should. It was a very tragic event that really affected the class and made everyone think twice about being down there. People leave all the time for medical care, especially after what happened.

You just used that same example to add further reason to the attrition rates even tho in that same paragraph you just stated that you didn't use it as a reason for attrition rates............. *facepalm*

 

Lots of people have lost a lot of money of late. The economy has can also take some major swings over the course of four years. Not everyone has the luxury of endless funds. Even fewer students have $300K kicking around without the help of their parents (either in the form of cash or a cosigner that satisfies the banks)

What's your point? I've already addressed all the points you brought up about sudden financial lost. Now you're just rambling about the economy.

 

Again, until you try it, I don't see how you can judge. If you think I'm overplaying it, you should see how many people don't make it past the first week of class before flying home. I actually think Grenada is great but not everyone does.

So how many people didn't make it past the first week this year?

 

Did I say it was mostly due to either of those reasons? (I thought we weren't supposed to put words in each other's mouths) All I said was the attrition comes in many forms. To think that it is only due to people failing out is not the whole story.

Not "only" due to but rather it's more likely that people fail out of SGU (thus having to repeat courses, take more time, etc) than the other reasons for attrition that you gave (ie dying).

 

Check the SGU website. I'm sure you'll think the numbers are untrustworty, but they do actually keep the stats of where everyone goes if they are willing to disclose it.

 

How did you determine that he "barely" got a transfer? Citation?

Link? We are talking about transfer to US med schools correct?

 

I'll admit that my source for the "barely" was from this site itself and how getting transfers from a Caribb med school to a US med school was stated as the "exception and not the norm". The thread for this is somewhere on the front page of this forum subsection.

 

$100,000,000 = 1400 clinical spots per year

They admit about 700 students per year

You'd have to ask sgu for the other numbers since there are always people coming in from their premed program and deceling from terms above.

 

Nobody has ever claimed that the attrition rate is not higher than at US or Canadian schools. Of course it is and always will be. As I said before, these are last chance schools for people. Some of these people will struggle badly, but many make it through and actually do very well.

Whoa, whoa. Slow down. So they admit 700 students per year and they have 1,400 spots? When do SGU students start their rotations?

[leviathan]

So assuming you're Canadian, it's funny that you wouldn't think there might be another reason why SGU would tell you that Canadians do well. I don't know about you but I totally get a used car salesman vibe.

Sorry, Rayven, but for whatever reason Canadians do much better than Americans at these schools. Of the students who ended up failing courses or leaving in my class, 90% or more were American. The more interesting part is that they only made up about 40% of our class in the 1st semester.

[Rayven]

Sorry, Rayven, but for whatever reason Canadians do much better than Americans at these schools. Of the students who ended up failing courses or leaving in my class, 90% or more were American. The more interesting part is that they only made up about 40% of our class in the 1st semester.

lol i heard you the first time. =p

 

I just thought it was funny that the adcoms would actually tell you the students that. I was also wondering if they broadcasted that Canadians were better than Americans to everyone or just to the Canadians when they were applying. If not, do they bother telling the American applicants something else?

 

Adcom to Canadian applicant:

Oh yeah, Canadian students tend to do very well at SGU.

 

Adcom to American applicant:

Oh yeah, American students tend to get laid very well at SGU.

[leviathan]

lol i heard you the first time. =p

 

I just thought it was funny that the adcoms would actually tell you the students that. I was also wondering if they broadcasted that Canadians were better than Americans to everyone or just to the Canadians when they were applying. If not, do they bother telling the American applicants something else?

 

Adcom to Canadian applicant:

Oh yeah, Canadian students tend to do very well at SGU.

 

Adcom to American applicant:

Oh yeah, American students tend to get laid very well at SGU.

You're overthinking the situation, slim. It's an interesting fact that could come up during an interview. For instance, if a Canadian asked what the attrition rate was like to gauge their chances of making it through the program, then it would be ridiculous to use the school average when there is such a polarity between the success rate of the two countries. Obviously, an adcom member would probably tell them that X% leave the school, but on average most Canadians tend to excel at the school.

 

I don't know why you're so fixated on this, but nobody else finds it funny.

[Rayven]

You're overthinking the situation, slim. It's an interesting fact that could come up during an interview. For instance, if a Canadian asked what the attrition rate was like to gauge their chances of making it through the program, then it would be ridiculous to use the school average when there is such a polarity between the success rate of the two countries. Obviously, an adcom member would probably tell them that X% leave the school, but on average most Canadians tend to excel at the school.

 

I don't know why you're so fixated on this, but nobody else finds it funny.

I'm not fixated. It just took more explaining than it should have. If nobody else finds it funny well then at least I'll still be smiling. Just weird how there seems to be a running theme with some posters speaking on behalf of everyone this weekend.

 

Does the UofT administration usually inform its prospective students that asians tend to do better than non-asians? That caucasians tend to excel at getting into student parliament more than any other? I just thought it was funny.. hmm.. lets replace "funny" with "interesting".. that SGU would tell Canadian students that Canadians tend to do better than the norm (aka Americans and other nationalities but mostly Americans).

[leviathan]

Does the UofT administration usually inform its prospective students that asians tend to do better than non-asians? That caucasians tend to excel at getting into student parliament more than any other? I just thought it was funny.. hmm.. lets replace "funny" with "interesting".. that SGU would tell Canadian students that Canadians tend to do better than the norm (aka Americans and other nationalities but mostly Americans).

Asians don't perform better than non-Asians at medical school, and that's also pretty racist. On the flip side, Americans and Canadians perform quite differently from each other, and it is a valid point to raise to help reassure applicants when they are worried about their chances of success at the school. In fact when friends of mine ask me about the dropout rate at my school and express their concerns about attending, I let them know the same thing. The Canadian attrition rate is extremely low, and there is no reason they should be worried if they attended a good undergrad university and have a decent GPA, and most of all have a passion for medicine and are capable of enduring the workload they will encounter. No offense, but your analogy is horrible. In fact, a lot of the people who have dropped out are Asian.

[Rayven]

Asians don't perform better than non-Asians at medical school, and that's also pretty racist. On the flip side, Americans and Canadians perform quite differently from each other, and it is a valid point to raise to help reassure applicants when they are worried about their chances of success at the school. In fact when friends of mine ask me about the dropout rate at my school and express their concerns about attending, I let them know the same thing. The Canadian attrition rate is extremely low, and there is no reason they should be worried if they attended a good undergrad university and have a decent GPA, and most of all have a passion for medicine and are capable of enduring the workload they will encounter. No offense, but your analogy is horrible. In fact, a lot of the people who have dropped out are Asian.

I was referring to undergrad not med school and it was just an analogy off the top of my head. But really, what's the difference really between praising a race vs praising a nationality. In either case, it just creates an air of awkwardness for the other race or nationality in the room that's essentially being put down. But what I was trying to convey earlier was that it's a bit suspicious that the SGU admins would pitch to Canadian applicants that Canadians tend to do better since SGU is trying to obviously sell their school to prospective students. However, of course, I doubt SGU would inform the American prospective students that they tend to do worse. I don't know what's so hard to get about that.

 

Anyways, what are the the exact numbers for the Canadian vs American attrition rates anyways? I understand that you are drawing your conclusions from your class/cohort which, no offense, is a pretty poor sample size to be making such broad claims. I'm just curious.

[leviathan]

I was referring to undergrad not med school and it was just an analogy off the top of my head. But really, what's the difference really between praising a race vs praising a nationality. In either case, it just creates an air of awkwardness for the other race or nationality in the room that's essentially being put down.

OK, I see your point, but I think we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think the Americans here feel like they are being put down if someone provides a statistic to a Canadian. My roommate is American and he recognizes that we are overall better students...he is actually the one who brought up the fact to me that none of the people leaving were Canadian. It definitely wasn't mentioned in my interview or any of my classmate's interviews.

 

 

But what I was trying to convey earlier was that it's a bit suspicious that the SGU admins would pitch to Canadian applicants that Canadians tend to do better since SGU is trying to obviously sell their school to prospective students.

See this is where I think you're getting a bit confused, calling it a pitch. Nobody is pitching that as a good thing about the school. I can see it coming up during a discussion when asked about attrition rates to help alleviate concerns, though. It's not like the people are including these facts in their information booklets, or emailing Canadians and saying "hey guys you are much better than Americans and have low attrition at our school!" Anyway, we are going in circles now.

 

 

Anyways, what are the the exact numbers for the Canadian vs American attrition rates anyways? I understand that you are drawing your conclusions from your class/cohort which, no offense, is a pretty poor sample size to be making such broad claims. I'm just curious.

The same is true for all semesters at our school, which is all together about 400 students. N=400 isn't a small number in my books, but I can't comment on other schools. I know a few people at the American University of the Caribbean, where there are only a few Canadians attending. I heard it was something like only 10-15 in total per semester out of 150, and of those 15, usually 7 or 8 of them are in the top 10 for marks and USMLE scores.

[Rayven]

OK, I see your point, but I think we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think the Americans here feel like they are being put down if someone provides a statistic to a Canadian. My roommate is American and he recognizes that we are overall better students...he is actually the one who brought up the fact to me that none of the people leaving were Canadian. It definitely wasn't mentioned in my interview or any of my classmate's interviews.

 

See this is where I think you're getting a bit confused, calling it a pitch. Nobody is pitching that as a good thing about the school. I can see it coming up during a discussion when asked about attrition rates to help alleviate concerns, though. It's not like the people are including these facts in their information booklets, or emailing Canadians and saying "hey guys you are much better than Americans and have low attrition at our school!" Anyway, we are going in circles now.

Well...

 

sure, i'll elaborate...

 

first i have to say that i completely agree with leviathan in that there is a big spread between the us students and the ones who didn't get in in canada. if you go to an sgu event, they'll even tell you that the cdn students are very competitive applicants and do very well there.

I think this thing just got really bloated really fast. 123 said how SGU praised Canandians for being very competitive (competitive vs who?) and then you quipped in somewhere that if asked that adcoms would/should list the difference in Canadian vs American attrition rates.

 

Anyways, I don't see how it would even be brought up in an interview though. I would hope that even the Carib med school interviews would still be an actual interview and not a sales pitch to get you to sign up.

 

The same is true for all semesters at our school, which is all together about 400 students. N=400 isn't a small number in my books, but I can't comment on other schools. I know a few people at the American University of the Caribbean, where there are only a few Canadians attending. I heard it was something like only 10-15 in total per semester out of 150, and of those 15, usually 7 or 8 of them are in the top 10 for marks and USMLE scores.

Well, I was drawing the only sample size you provided in this thread (that I know of) where N = 85...

 

That's impressive. I am at Saba. I wouldn't consider attending a school like Ross, to be honest...The bottom line is that at this point, only 55/85 of us remain taking the full courseload in 3rd semester, but many others are repeating courses and are thus not with the original group.

All i'm saying now is that it would be nice to have actual posted stats for a number of years instead of all the hearsay. I don't think it's a good idea to extrapolate from a supposed 7 or 8 Canadians that are doing really well at some not as well known Caribb school. Seems to be stretching it a bit. Even if it's true, it could just be 7 or 8 really smart Canadians this year.

 

Anyways, this thread has deviated enough from the original question. If you want, PM me. Or post here... I don't really care. But i have some studying to do so might be a little slow to respond.

[leviathan]

I think this thing just got really bloated really fast. 123 said how SGU praised Canandians for being very competitive (competitive vs who?) and then you quipped in somewhere that if asked that adcoms would/should list the difference in Canadian vs American attrition rates.

Like I said, it was never brought up in my interview. Actually if I had said otherwise before, I should correct myself now. I don't see how anyone would ever bring up that Canadians do better than Americans. It would be perfectly sufficient to say that Canadians have a very low attrition rate without having to compare them to anyone else.

 

Anyways, I don't see how it would even be brought up in an interview though. I would hope that even the Carib med school interviews would still be an actual interview and not a sales pitch to get you to sign up.

All right, enough...Newsflash: All medical schools DO pitch themselves to their applicants to try and get them to sign up, including Canadian medical schools. Clearly you haven't had experience with interviewing or this would be blatantly obvious to you. They want the best applicants to come on board, so why in the world wouldn't they sell themselves? It's obvious you just see Caribbean schools through tinted glasses and view anything done by them in a negative light, even when it's perfectly benign. I don't blame you entirely because of the nature of many schools that exist, but you should avoid making vast generalizations and painting every school with the same brush.

[Rayven]

Like I said, it was never brought up in my interview. Actually if I had said otherwise before, I should correct myself now. I don't see how anyone would ever bring up that Canadians do better than Americans. It would be perfectly sufficient to say that Canadians have a very low attrition rate without having to compare them to anyone else.

Anyone.. besides you just now.. on the forums. lol

 

Anyways, you can't really saw something is "low" or for the fact "high" without comparing it to something. But anywaysss, i think we beat this dead horse into glue and then some already.

 

All right, enough...Newsflash: All medical schools DO pitch themselves to their applicants to try and get them to sign up, including Canadian medical schools. Clearly you haven't had experience with interviewing or this would be blatantly obvious to you. They want the best applicants to come on board, so why in the world wouldn't they sell themselves? It's obvious you just see Caribbean schools through tinted glasses and view anything done by them in a negative light, even when it's perfectly benign. I don't blame you entirely because of the nature of many schools that exist, but you should avoid making vast generalizations and painting every school with the same brush.

Lets just say that most of us aren't receiving big glossy coloured booklets (not just pamphlets but actual real booklets) in their mail every year from UofT or McGill and lets leave it at that.

 

The original thread could've been answered in like a line like:

Line of credit, co-signer, SGU coupons for Canadian discount and possibly some Canadian student loans (ie OSAP but not 100% sure).

[VanMD]

Anyone.. besides you just now.. on the forums. lol

Anyways, you can't really saw something is "low" or for the fact "high" without comparing it to something. But anywaysss, i think we beat this dead horse into glue and then some already.

 

 

Lets just say that most of us aren't receiving big glossy coloured booklets (not just pamphlets but actual real booklets) in their mail every year from UofT or McGill and lets leave it at that.

 

The original thread could've been answered in like a line like:

Line of credit, co-signer, SGU coupons for Canadian discount and possibly some Canadian student loans (ie OSAP but not 100% sure).

 

The Original thread was answered. You decided to go on a verbal diarrhea with yourself and after wasting a few minutes reading your post I still don't know what you are trying to say. Nor do I care.

 

If someone has questions about SGU and they are interested in asking questions and getting feedback from people who are actually there... then this is the right place to chat. If you just want to come on here cause you have the time to try to get a rise out of someone.. then I don't have time for you.

 

My question is always the following... Are you even in Medical School? Which one do you go to? I don't care to even search your previous post to find out. But if you go to US or Canadian medical school, congrats to you and I hope you appreciate the opportunity. If you don't go to medical school anywhere then good luck to you.

[leviathan]

Anyways, you can't really saw something is "low" or for the fact "high" without comparing it to something. But anywaysss, i think we beat this dead horse into glue and then some already.

All right, buddy. Just look back and think about how many people disagree with you and ask yourself, "Is everybody else crazy, or is it me?"

 

Lets just say that most of us aren't receiving big glossy coloured booklets (not just pamphlets but actual real booklets) in their mail every year from UofT or McGill and lets leave it at that.

I have to question your intelligence if you don't understand why a school in the Caribbean would want to provide information to applicants in a booklet, whereas well-known schools in Canada don't need to do this. I pretty much gave the answer away there.

 

I'll let you think about it long and hard, but you might want to look at yourself and all of the things you've been posting in here for an answer to that question. If you can figure out, let me know, otherwise don't bother replying.

[Rayven]

The Original thread was answered. You decided to go on a verbal diarrhea with yourself and after wasting a few minutes reading your post I still don't know what you are trying to say. Nor do I care.

You obviously do care. Don't flatter yourself.

 

If you can't comprehend what I've said then I doubt you have any right to actually say anything.

 

If someone has questions about SGU and they are interested in asking questions and getting feedback from people who are actually there... then this is the right place to chat. If you just want to come on here cause you have the time to try to get a rise out of someone.. then I don't have time for you.

I'm not trolling if that's what you're implying. Are you going to a Carib school? Is that why you're getting so worked up? Because the only real points I've made were that Carib schools tend to admit way more applicants than they should (which is pretty much common knowledge), Carib schools tend to have a high attrition rate (also common knowledge), and that it was funny that these schools would actually state that Canadians do better but this turned out to be some sort of miscommunication between 1234, someone else, and myself.

 

My question is always the following... Are you even in Medical School? Which one do you go to? I don't care to even search your previous post to find out. But if you go to US or Canadian medical school, congrats to you and I hope you appreciate the opportunity. If you don't go to medical school anywhere then good luck to you.

You sure have to reiterate how much you don't care... you sure you're not just hiding that you do care? <3

 

And why is your question always the following..? o.O? Seems kind of confronting to always be asking everyone you meet if they're in med school and where they go.

 

"One pack of gum? That'll be $1.13 please."

"Whoa whoa. Hold up. Are you even in med school?"

 

lol anyways, if you want to know more about me then you're going to have to start caring, mkay? Geez, with your attitude, even if I did tell you you'd just reply that you don't care.

[Rayven]

I just want to say a few things:

- from what i am hearing from friends, SGU has a pretty supportive environment. Even if you feel they are all cynical *******s then you should realize that making sure a student stays means more tuition money for them.

Agreed. But at the same time you have to realize that SGU and other Carib schools often admit many students that are underqualified and thus probably the leading reason for their high attrition rates. And like someone else here has already said that these schools aren't overly lacking applicants since they're spending thousands and thousands on mailing out thousands of glossy admission packs.

 

- I don't know what is so god damn hard about believing that canadians do better than americans, because for americans to use the carribean as a last ditch effort it means that they couldn't get into schools as residents/IS (we can give cali and new hamshire residents a break here) applicants and that academic threshold is lower than what it would take for a Canadian to be kept out of Canadian med schools AND american schools where they are international students.

Although Ontario students get the most shafted I really doubt ALL Canadian students in the Caribbean are explicitly Ontario students who couldn't get in. Most Canadians who apply to the Carib probably have a GPA of less than 3.6 which would make even IP med schools a challenge. So it's wrong to think that the American applying to the Carib are simply stupider than the Canadian applying to the Carib.

 

- Starting medical school can be very emotional and stressful. I find there are challenges and I am at a canadian med school, so you must need even more strength when you are so far from the familiar, starting a new life in a new country and undergoing an identity change. He didn't overplay it at all (closer to understate than overplay). No offense intended at all, but I don't expect you (or anyone) to understand until you go through it. But Rayven, hopefully you will succeed and will come to see what it really is to make that transition.

Thanks. lol

[Rayven]

All right, buddy. Just look back and think about how many people disagree with you and ask yourself, "Is everybody else crazy, or is it me?"

lol! Yea man. I totally forgot that the majority is always right. And wow, 3 people disagree with me. It's definitely the end of the world. Well, at least my world. x_x

 

God forbid if an atheist gets dragged into sunday service.

 

I have to question your intelligence if you don't understand why a school in the Caribbean would want to provide information to applicants in a booklet, whereas well-known schools in Canada don't need to do this. I pretty much gave the answer away there.

 

I'll let you think about it long and hard, but you might want to look at yourself and all of the things you've been posting in here for an answer to that question. If you can figure out, let me know, otherwise don't bother replying.

Just like how the med school of Antiga needs to provide information to applicants in troll-form on premed101.com right?

 

Are all med schools in Canada that well-known? Honestly? I don't think so. I had to do my research to learn about each school, their requirements, their cutoffs and/or special cutoffs, their class size, their location,.. etc. Geez, lets not even get into how little most of us know about the many, many American med schools out there.

 

If you don't know the obvious reason why SGU needs to spend so much on advertising (for the most part, how beautiful their island is and how they're actually not a scam) then I really think you ought to spend less time trying to insult little ol'me online.

[leviathan]

Are all med schools in Canada that well-known? Honestly? I don't think so. I had to do my research to learn about each school, their requirements, their cutoffs and/or special cutoffs, their class size, their location,.. etc. Geez, lets not even get into how little most of us know about the many, many American med schools out there.

Think about it really, really hard: You're a Canadian, looking at Canadian medical schools, which by and large only accept Canadian students. If it still doesn't make sense why a Caribbean school has to advertise when they accept international students who might not otherwise hear of it, or who are otherwise full of ignorant notions, then I don't know how much simpler I can make it for you.

 

And Alastriss, you are right. I do have too much patience, but it kinda just ran out.

[leviathan]

Rayven, I don't think you are on the same page as leviathan and VanMD

 

You think that they think that SGU is a school you would consider as a top choice, while they are speaking from the standpoint that given that this is a back-up option for people who either couldn't get into canada/US or chose not to drag on the admissions game for a few more years.

 

I don't think they would say their school is top notch. It obviously has it's weaknesses and they know that. They also have realized that matching into medicine is LARGELY a function of the student and not the school in itself. The provides the tools it takes to get into a good residency.

 

A good question that is actually worthwhile for you to ask Rayven is this: Even though they say canadian students generally do better, how much does that matter given that US students with their citizenship can get away with less-than-competitive apps just by virtue of not needing a visa. Kind of curious about that one.

At least you can understand this simple concept. You raise a good question about the ease the Americans have with matching afterwards. The priority for most people is just being reassured that they will make it through the program and get their MD. Thankfully the climate is still optimal that basically 100% of all students who do get their MD will match *somewhere*, whether they are American or Canadian. That certainly could change dramatically in the next few years as more and more American medical schools are opening up without a parallel increase in residency spots. Sounds pretty familiar to a situation we have up north, eh?

[leviathan]

I wonder if that means added pressure to fill up residency spots not filled up even after the second match. Who knows. Frankly increasing number of med schools process does nothing without a matched increase in residency spots. Ultimately your competitiveness is something that you determine, not your school. There are so many people there that should belong here but frankly have chosen to not play this silly admissions game. A lot of what was said about the population of students is made from generalizations that may not be true. Regardless, they still serve to correct an error in our admissions, where a substantial number of qualified students don't get in.

I know UBC doubled its seats yet its average matriculant GPA was still the same...there's just way too many qualified (based on marks anyway) applicants. One thing I forgot to mention is that on essentially every single exam that we have, there are always people who fail (and who eventually fail the entire course or medical school altogether), but rarely does anyone score below 60%, which I believe is a pass in most Canadian schools? Here, you have to get a 75% to pass. I'm sure if they lowered the standards to 60% for a pass, virtually everyone would make it through. On the flip side, I guess the schools want only their best students to make it to clerkship to give a good reputation for the school. There's always that mentality that the schools are fighting against, so any weak or even average students are a liability for the school. Any mistake they make or deficit in knowledge they have automatically becomes due to the quality of the school, and not the student, in the eyes of the residents and attendings.

 

Hey Lev. I actually had a friend's sis match from SGU, and I was going through the match list to see her name. I noticed a lot of people were going into a transitional year, what does that mean?

I think that's basically a year people in the US do before they start a residency that begins in PGY-2, like Anesthesiology. I'm not really sure on that though.