Any non-trads who's been working for *quite* a while?

[pathogen]

Hello hopefuls!

 

Just wondering how many here have applied, and/or been accepted at the age of 34 or beyond? My situation is complicated:

 

ugrad: Waterloo co-op program class of 2001 (yes, that was 8 years ago)

degree: B.Math (Comp Sci. with option).

Had full course load for every "year" but had taken 1 course each during the last 2 work terms, therefore only 4 courses each during the final 2 school terms. Zero idea about how they'll be juggled and counted.

 

In my first year I got overambitious and took a 200 level microbiology class that totally sank my med school ambitions at 51%. With med school out of my future (at the time), I tried to venture to a lot of other new and seemingly random areas outside the core program, took some "harder" courses in the core program that interested me, and sort of took it all easy, knowing that I had already passed the threshold to have a solid future in the IT field.

 

As a result, my cGPA (by OMSAS-2010) was abysmal - if the "work term" courses were excluded, only 3.60. Included: 3.62. In the best case where UofT's weighing applies and I could take away the worst 4 half credits, would still be only be a humbling 3.79. I don't know if I can make a case to use the weighing, but I'm not counting on it.

 

However, the OMSAS document also reads "please note: The above scales are applicable only to current grading schemes", so, no clue about applicability to 2000-ish grading schemes.

 

EC: inter-university cultural debate club, student's society, undergrad research assistant (not productive), geriatric care (although did not directly dealing with patients), also created some computer programs, some were published and used by others. I also read here that "working" counts as an EC - even if it literally fits the definition of an EC, it didn't sound like one, so not counting on it, either.

 

After graduation I took on a full time job in the wireless industry and a part-time M.Math. Grad GPA was a lot better (3.9+) but the course load was low, being part-time. However, the full time job was extremely demanding, and with solid results I'm still proud of to this day.

 

During grad school (a part-time program which took almost 4 years due to work and research) I had 2 peer-reviewed publications: a 1st author one for a well-known conference in my field of grad studies (computer graphics), and a 2nd author one in a journal, which coincidently is in a field crossing mine and biomedical ones.

 

I then moved to Toronto 3 years ago due to family reasons and continue to work to develop software, related to finance and statistics. However now I feel that my contribution to the society is a net negative or close to zero since this move, and the faint voice in my head that told me to take a look at med, is getting louder and louder every day.

 

I know I have to at least take the MCAT, and some prereqs in life sciences that seem to be required by every school (and to recover from that 51% microbiology class). Since graduation from undergrad, there's no EC (do hobbies count?) and I no longer know what counts as EC once you're out of school, although I'm planning to apply to volunteer again in some hospital, or ask to shadow an MD which is a family member, if possible.

Unfortunately, from what I have read, a high MCAT score doesn't seem to matter as long as it gets past a certain cut-off.

 

In pursuing this, I'm preparing to give up years of income in my field, which is currently near the top end of 5-figure - but in 10 years I honestly do not want to be where I am now. Although my chances are slim, as I have seen and read here and elsewhere, if I want to avoid regrets, there's only one way to find out.

 

It's getting too long and I'd better stop here. Now you've read my story. Are/Has anyone of you been on a similar boat? Any recommendation, course of action or things I might have missed? Good MCAT study material? Comments are welcome, both encouraging ones or you're-blind-please-check-reality ones.

 

Good luck to all!

[Halcyon]

Thanks for sharing your story!

There is nothing 'wrong' with working for a period of time before applying to medical school. (Don't forget that employment is an 'EC'). Also, as you have noted, do explore the field to make sure this is the path you want to take.

I encourage you to read through this non-trad part of the forum. You will find many moving stories.

And, welcome to another representing UW.

[Rayven]

Work experience is definitely a big bonus I'd say. Having a real full-time job must give you so much relief over the thousands of traditional premeds who graduate with their BSc and find out that they can't really get a job with just a bachelors in biology or whatever fancy term they spin it.

[Coach]

Hey Pathogen,

 

My suggestion is to do something fresh via a second degree option. Perhaps over a 2 or 3 year period (part-time) you could earn a degree with a course concentration that the med schools are looking for. Have a look at Athabasca. Studying without a full course load will exclude you from some schools but not all. At least you won't be facing a brick wall with no hope.

 

If you get a very high GPA, do well on your MCAT and do some volunteering & ECs while working, you could build an impressive application. You would have a compelling story to tell and one that isn't like the standard med school applicant. Some admissions committe members would respect your resolve and determination; having lots of life experience doesn't hurt either. You have to view your advanced age as a strength and not a weakness. Obviously there are no guarantees but why not try?

 

My favourite quote: in 20 years from now you are more likely to regret the things you have never done than those you did.

 

Go for it.

[ploughboy]

It's getting too long and I'd better stop here. Now you've read my story. Are/Has anyone of you been on a similar boat? Any recommendation, course of action or things I might have missed? Good MCAT study material? Comments are welcome, both encouraging ones or you're-blind-please-check-reality ones.

Good luck to all!

 

Was somewhat similar at one point. 3.3-ish GPA in elec eng'g, extensive work experience is a specialized high-tech field and a feeling that it was time for a change.

 

Key for me was having a detailed plan. Knew all the admission reqs for all the English-speaking schools in Canada and had a big spreadsheet covering approx 36 months into the future showing what courses I'd be taking, what marks I needed, status of pre-reqs, when I'd be writing the mcat, what my gpa was for each school etc. Also had a series of decision points ("gut checks") on it. For example, if at the end of my first semester I was only pulling 3.3s again then I likely wouldn't have carried forward.

 

I was fortunate, and only had to carry out 2/3 of my plan. But I was very, very lucky. Some days I still can't quite believe it all worked out.

 

Full-time undergrad study was the appropriate strategy for my situation. Not sure how the admissions landscape has changed recently but I suspect that strategy would give you the most bang for your buck as well. "Go big or go home" was a compelling motivator for me since, as you say, you don't want to be looking back on your life in 10,20,50 years going "shoulda, coulda, woulda".

 

G'luck.

[pathogen]

Hi ploughboy,

 

Your experience is interesting. Could you elaborate what your plan was, and how the last 1/3 happened to be not needed?

 

I looked around and the shortest undergraduate that I can use for some boosting, all of them take 3 years. I set myself a deadline, and that 2 additional years (I'll have to spend 1 for the prereqs) is probably going to push me over it.

 

My biggest regret now is to not take a full load during my 4th year (4 full credits only) by padding any (easy or difficult) full credit course. If I could apply UofT's "weighted" GPA, it'd shoot straight up to 3.89, or above 3.8 even if fewer credits were discarded regardless of the grade of that additional course.

 

What a mistake in thinking that I could put whatever free time I had left into good use during those last 2 work terms (both of which I was working a 40 hour week...)

 

Well what's past is past. Gotta focus on THIS moment.

 

My plan is, study for (and aim to ace) MCAT and fulfil the prereqs. Preferably, I'd take the prereqs in a single year while working full time and becoming a first time Dad to make a case for my academic and time management prowess. Is this worth the effort?

 

Are there recommended prereq courses for each school and where those can be taken if you live in the Greater Toronto Area?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Was somewhat similar at one point. 3.3-ish GPA in elec eng'g, extensive work experience is a specialized high-tech field and a feeling that it was time for a change.

 

Key for me was having a detailed plan. Knew all the admission reqs for all the English-speaking schools in Canada and had a big spreadsheet covering approx 36 months into the future showing what courses I'd be taking, what marks I needed, status of pre-reqs, when I'd be writing the mcat, what my gpa was for each school etc. Also had a series of decision points ("gut checks") on it. For example, if at the end of my first semester I was only pulling 3.3s again then I likely wouldn't have carried forward.

 

I was fortunate, and only had to carry out 2/3 of my plan. But I was very, very lucky. Some days I still can't quite believe it all worked out.

 

Full-time undergrad study was the appropriate strategy for my situation. Not sure how the admissions landscape has changed recently but I suspect that strategy would give you the most bang for your buck as well. "Go big or go home" was a compelling motivator for me since, as you say, you don't want to be looking back on your life in 10,20,50 years going "shoulda, coulda, woulda".

 

G'luck.

[Tara21]

Hey there,

 

What med schools are you looking to apply to? This will help dictate what you need to do for your med school admissions master plan.

 

And, if I read that correctly, congrats on being a new dad!

 

Tara

[gnomey]

I am in a similar boat, 41yrs old worked for 20 years. By the time you have completed the pre-req's you will have been out of school for 10 years. UBC is the only school i know that gives a 10 remission allowance. This would let you "erase" the 1st 2yrs of your degree. However, if possible do a full course load as I too worked f/t will getting my degree in 4 yrs. Very difficult and my marks are in the 3.3-3.5 range. MCAT not so good. My file review at UBC showed a caution flag that I was only taking 4 courses/semester. I took a year off and did 5/semester to prove I could and get better marks. This despite the admissions office stating that I would not be penalized as I was working f/t while going to school. I am now on my 5th attempt, had two interveiws, waitlisted last year. Being out of province you will excellent marks, If you take 1 yr here in BC, you will have more level playing field. Good luck, all the best. Follow your heart.

[AndreaM]

I've been out of school for 6 years now and am applying for the first time in 5 years. I applied three times right out of school and then took a few years off to have kids, work off some student debt, buy a house etc. I really think that my work experience will be beneficial to my application, because I have explored several areas, gained a variety of experience and have done a lot of self-exploration. I've worked as part of a research team at a small pharmaceutical company, as a small business owner running a family daycare and as a front-line care worker who works with people with disabilities.

 

My first degree was a joint major in Biology and Chemistry and my GPA was only 3.55 coming out of it. Since then I have been working on Psychology through correspondance and have increased my total GPA to 3.68 and my last 60 credits from 3.62 up to 3.75.

 

I too have a spreadsheet with theoretical courses and statistical averages, but mine is mostly focussed on UBC, because of family reasons.

 

I no longer know what counts as EC once you're out of school, although I'm planning to apply to volunteer again in some hospital, or ask to shadow an MD which is a family member, if possible.

 

I don't know about schools in Ontario, but UBC calls it 'non-academic qualities', which means anything in your life that is not school. Hobbies can certainly fall under that heading. It can encompass anything from volunteering in a hospital to winning knitting competitions to playing rec league hockey.

 

Long term commitments to things are good to be able to show, as are an actual interest in and exploration of the field of medicine. The adcom wants to know that you have a good idea of what you're getting into and that you will stick it out once you do get in. The school and province are putting a lot of money and time into each student that they train, so they want to make sure that everyone going through med school will finish successfully and then practice for a long time.

[ploughboy]

Your experience is interesting. Could you elaborate what your plan was, and how the last 1/3 happened to be not needed?

 

The second paragraph of my previous post is the basic outline of my plan. It was detailed, but not exactly complicated. It let me keep track of what I needed to do, how I needed to do it, and how I'd know if I was still on track.

 

2/3 of the way through, I had met the requirements to get an interview at UWO (as planned). Although I had what, from my point of view, seemed like a terrible interview I was accepted. The rest of the plan was then unnecessary.

 

 

 

I looked around and the shortest undergraduate that I can use for some boosting, all of them take 3 years. I set myself a deadline, and that 2 additional years (I'll have to spend 1 for the prereqs) is probably going to push me over it.

 

Then you need to reconsider your timeline or reconsider your dream of being a physician.

 

I would encourage you to take the long view. Four years from now, are you going to be kicking yourself and going "if I'd put in the extra time on another undergrad, I could have been applying to medical school right now"?

 

Also keep in mind that you can often transfer a certain number of credits from your first degree to a new one, which can shorten the time required but also has implications for med school GPA calculations.

 

 

My plan is, study for (and aim to ace) MCAT and fulfil the prereqs. Preferably, I'd take the prereqs in a single year while working full time and becoming a first time Dad to make a case for my academic and time management prowess. Is this worth the effort?

 

Full-time work, full-time school and a first child? You won't be able to do well at all of those simultaneously. If you're a superstar and can manage all of that, more power to you. However, from the outside looking in, it looks like you're setting yourself up for a mediocre mcat score and a mediocre GPA in your pre-reqs. Then what will you do?

 

 

Are there recommended prereq courses for each school and where those can be taken if you live in the Greater Toronto Area?

 

Yes there are. I'm going to sound like a jerk for saying this, but if you're serious about meds you need to start by looking that sort of information up yourself.

 

To make myself sound like less of a jerk -- If you've read (and I mean *really read*) the omsas instruction booklet and the admissions webpages for the dozen or so other medical schools in Canada and *still* have specific questions, then I'd be happy to try and answer them.

[med12345]

gnomey:

 

Where did it show a caution flag on your file review? I am in a similar position (took four classes each sememster for work reasons), but I never saw a "caution flag" on my file review. thanks

[pathogen]

Hi Ploughboy, it's a good amount of elaboration and is at exactly the level I'm looking for.

 

I would encourage you to take the long view. Four years from now, are you going to be kicking yourself and going "if I'd put in the extra time on another undergrad, I could have been applying to medical school right now"?

 

Full-time work, full-time school and a first child? You won't be able to do well at all of those simultaneously. If you're a superstar and can manage all of that, more power to you. However, from the outside looking in, it looks like you're setting yourself up for a mediocre mcat score and a mediocre GPA in your pre-reqs. Then what will you do?

 

To be exact, it's Full-time work, part-time school and a first child which I'm quite sure I can handle. It'd still not be as easy as full time school with full load, but the child is going to be here regardless of the road that I choose

 

As to the long view, I'm currently looking at programs that I can do with 2 years of full load and maybe fill the rest up with credit transfers.

 

Yes there are. I'm going to sound like a jerk for saying this, but if you're serious about meds you need to start by looking that sort of information up yourself.

 

To make myself sound like less of a jerk -- If you've read (and I mean *really read*) the omsas instruction booklet and the admissions webpages for the dozen or so other medical schools in Canada and *still* have specific questions, then I'd be happy to try and answer them.

 

No offence taken . I've been looking at information released by schools and the OMSAS booklet, and was just wondering if there is information, or common practice, that they don't mention to maintain politically correct (e.g. not recommending easier courses or courses from other schools as prereqs, etc.)

 

Again, thanks for the kind words!

[gnomey]

Med 12345 On the one page file review they sent out it was on the bottom (5years ago), the next year I took 4/sememster and then 5/ semester and the flag went away. Maybe the magic number is 4 or they no longer put the flags on them. I know the admissions person I talked to mentioned that 5/semester is what they consider f/t.