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mig174

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okay, but what about the individual sperm + eggs before fertilization. Would you say that both of those cells are living?

 

By definition, all cells are living, but no--a human life-form (at whatever stage of development--where you want to draw the line of importance, go ahead) is made of the fusion of both of these cells. I know where you are going Mike and it won't change my opinion. That's why it's an opinion.

 

You are stalling--you are supposed to be studying, not sparking controversies.

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The woman in the article is clearly mentally ill. Shouldn't be a reason to vilify all abortion recipients.

 

That woman clearly made some poor choices, but I would hardly call it mentally ill. That is an insult to people who are actually mentally ill, I hope you realize!!

 

And reminds me of certain folk (e.g. Christians, Muslims and pro-gun nuts) who go "well, those people on TV are fanatics, you can't judge us just because they are crazy". Mmm... sorry, we can and we will!

 

/don't worry I'm totally pro-death (abortion+euthanasia)

//but at least I have the balls to call it what it is, legally sanctioned taking of life ;)

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That woman clearly made some poor choices, but I would hardly call it mentally ill. That is an insult to people who are actually mentally ill, I hope you realize!!

 

And reminds me of certain folk (e.g. Christians, Muslims and pro-gun nuts) who go "well, those people on TV are fanatics, you can't judge us just because they are crazy". Mmm... sorry, we can and we will!

 

/don't worry I'm totally pro-death (abortion+euthanasia)

//but at least I have the balls to call it what it is, legally sanctioned taking of life ;)

 

I think it's sad when everyone goes nuts. Good for you--no point in hiding behind words.

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Replace "people" with "unborn children" and you have the pro-life movement in a nutshell.

 

And "IMO" = "in my opinion" = "my personal beliefs".

 

Sorry, you don't get to exclude something simply because you don't believe its a treatment... I thought that was what we were arguing all along.

 

 

 

Sorry estairella but newfiemike is totally right regarding lethal injection (in the context of an execution). It's not a treatment it's a ''legal'' murder. Period.

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you can direct to them to another resource to get birth control... praying to your knife is full of ****, id tell u 2 **** off

 

Yes--wishing to bring up a controversial topic is fine (probably come up in interviews anyway), but inserting statements like that is not helpful and will only result in stirring up ****.

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I'm not dissin your opinion, Cnuss, I just wanted to post this because as I was reading it, I found out that your and my opinions on when life starts are both included here:

 

 

 

 

 

from: http://8e.devbio.com/article.php?ch=21&id=7

 

 

 

When Does Human Life Begin?

 

This is a note that may generate some discussion and debate. It was occasioned by a bulletin board set up by a political action group at our college. The board claimed that while philosophy and religion may have different opinions concerning when life begins, science has no such problems. Students were told that biologists were unanimous in agreeing that life starts at fertilization, and that there was no dispute in the scientific literature. Besides being a parody of science (i.e., that scientific facts are the objective truth and that all scientists agree about what these facts mean), it is wrong. I have read a wide range of scientific positions on when life begins, and these positions depend on what aspect of life one privileges in such discussions. Here is my classification scheme concerning when human life begins. You may have others.

 

The metabolic view: There is no one point when life begins. The sperm cell and egg cell are as alive as any other organism.

 

The genetic view: A new individual is created at fertilization. This is when the genes from the two parents combine to form an individual with unique properties.

 

The embryological view: In humans, identical twinning can occur as late as day 12 pc. Such twinning produces two individuals with different lives. Even conjoined ("Siamese") twins can have different personalities. Thus, a single individuality is not fixed earlier than day 12. (In religious terms, the two individuals have different souls). Some medical texts consider the stages before this time as "pre-embryonic." This view is expressed by scientists such as Renfree (1982) and Grobstein (1988) and has been endorsed theologically by Ford (1988), Shannon and Wolter (1990), and McCormick (1991), among others. (Such a view would allow contraception, "morning-after" pills, and contragestational agents, but not abortion after two weeks.)

 

The neurological view: Our society has defined death as the loss of the cerebral EEG (electroencephalogram) pattern. Conversely, some scientists have thought that the acquisition of the human EEG (at about 27 weeks) should be defined as when a human life begins. This view has been put forth most concretely by Morowitz and Trefil (1992). (This view and the ones following would allow mid-trimester abortions).

 

The ecological/technological view: This view sees human life as beginning when it can exist separately from its maternal biological environment. The natural limit of viability occurs when the lungs mature, but technological advances can now enable a premature infant to survive at about 25 weeks gestation. (This is the view currently operating in many states. Once a fetus can be potentially independent, it cannot be aborted.)

 

The immunological view: This view sees human life as beginning when the organism recognizes the distinction between self and non-self. In humans, this occurs around the time of birth.

 

The integrated physiological view: This view sees human life as beginning when an individual has become independent of the mother and has its own functioning circulatory system, alimentary system, and respiratory system. This is the traditional birthday when the baby is born into the world and the umbilical cord is cut.

 

 

 

 

 

and just for discussions sake, before reading this article my opinion on the matter best suits "the metabolic view"

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I'm not dissin your opinion, Cnuss, I just wanted to post this because as I was reading it, I found out that your and my opinions on when life starts are both included here:]

 

 

You should know me well enough by now to realize I won't get offended by you--even if we enter a debate.

 

Which one is yours? Edit: lol...I see it now. Good for you.

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