s5260205 Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I am currently applying to both US and Canadian universities. If I were to study undergrad in US, when I apply to US medical schools, would I be seen as an international student? Would I be competing for the few "international student spots"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I don't see how where you studied previously as an int'l student would change your status for US med schools. But if you married a US citizen while in UG in US that wouold change your status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s5260205 Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I don't see how where you studied previously as an int'l student would change your status for US med schools. But if you married a US citizen while in UG in US that wouold change your status. So, studying undergrad in US would not give me any advantage in applying to grad schools over other international students? If so, I wonder, why are so many people applying to US universities? In my school only, there are at least 15 people applying to US. The tuition is much more expensive (at least 50k USD per year, compared to 7k CAD per year in Canadian schools). And, those reputable schools are surely harder to get high GPA (similar to UofT). However, there are benefits of "US private vs. Canada public". The higher tution is used to subsidize much of the services provided by the private schools. The students are generally "at the same boat" for the standard tests and the sophisicated applications the schools they completed for admission, as opposed to Canadian schools (not all programs though) where school marks are the major factors for admission (as "confessed" by many admission registrars). I am still puzzled by people's willingness to go to the states for undergrad. Maybe they have rich parents? Maybe they think it's better than Canadian schools (but it's only undergrad...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannie22 Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 So, studying undergrad in US would not give me any advantage in applying to grad schools over other international students?If so, I wonder, why are so many people applying to US universities? In my school only, there are at least 15 people applying to US. The tuition is much more expensive (at least 50k USD per year, compared to 7k CAD per year in Canadian schools). And, those reputable schools are surely harder to get high GPA (similar to UofT). However, there are benefits of "US private vs. Canada public". The higher tution is used to subsidize much of the services provided by the private schools. The students are generally "at the same boat" for the standard tests and the sophisicated applications the schools they completed for admission, as opposed to Canadian schools (not all programs though) where school marks are the major factors for admission (as "confessed" by many admission registrars). I am still puzzled by people's willingness to go to the states for undergrad. Maybe they have rich parents? Maybe they think it's better than Canadian schools (but it's only undergrad...)? better education (more As) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I too cannot figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s5260205 Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I will apply to US schools though. I will be rejected by the 5 schools I am applying anyway:( Currently applying to UBC, McGill, and UofT(OUAC such a rip-off) Considering Queen's, York, UWO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Concordia, not McGill, you will have a much better GPA Ryerson or York, not U/T - for the same reason US - I guess you have wealthy parents with $$ to burn, totally unnecessary Your thinking and approach is totally out of the ballpark for me - but GL, different strokes for different folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayne67 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 So, studying undergrad in US would not give me any advantage in applying to grad schools over other international students?If so, I wonder, why are so many people applying to US universities? In my school only, there are at least 15 people applying to US. The tuition is much more expensive (at least 50k USD per year, compared to 7k CAD per year in Canadian schools). And, those reputable schools are surely harder to get high GPA (similar to UofT). However, there are benefits of "US private vs. Canada public". The higher tution is used to subsidize much of the services provided by the private schools. The students are generally "at the same boat" for the standard tests and the sophisicated applications the schools they completed for admission, as opposed to Canadian schools (not all programs though) where school marks are the major factors for admission (as "confessed" by many admission registrars). I am still puzzled by people's willingness to go to the states for undergrad. Maybe they have rich parents? Maybe they think it's better than Canadian schools (but it's only undergrad...)? Part of the reasons are prestige and of course an overall better quality of student life. If someone has money, I wouldn't at all second guess their decision to attend a good US university for undergrad. From what I have heard from people that go there, they have access to so many services (plethora of premed counselors, readily available research opportunities, top notch internship opportunities, jobs specifically reserved for their graduates, very supportive alumini networks, etc.). Just as importantly, their college social scenes are way better than what we see at school's like UofT, York, or Ryerson. And going to a top notch US school (i.e. Ivy league) does help IMO with US med applications. I mean it won't still remove that "international" label from your head, but schools will prefer you over someone that went to a Canadian undergrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Fair enough if your goal is a US med school and you have the funding, but I think we have the best education in the world and if money were not part of the equation, I find no good reason to leave Canada for UG, especially as I am receiving a fine education preparing me for med school, with all the opportunities ofor patient care in volunteering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I did my undergrad in Canada but there are many reasons to going to the US for undergrad. There are many opportunities for scholarships. So that 30k tuition can easily be nothing or cheap. Athletic scholarships, academic scholarships, scholarships for being minority, there are literally scholarships and bursaries for everything. Thus, if you do well on your ACT/SAT and have a good GPA, or you excel at a sport (hockey most commonly but also other sports like golf, swimming, lacrosse, etc.) that tuition can easily become cheaper than going to a Canadian school. I was somewhat of a math genius in high school and even I was recruited to go to top schools for undergrad to be on their Putnam teams (the premier North American math contest), with scholarships. Also going to the US can be an experience just by living away from home and experiencing another culture. You gain attachment to your alma mater when you go to school in the US, through college sports and other activities. The experience of attending a college football game with 100000+ fans is something you cannot experience in Canada. Canadians tend only to look at the price tag and end product of a US education (med school or otherwise). We don't look at all the benefits in between. Sure, you can have the same degree at the end but you don't get the experience in Canada. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would've gone to the US for undergrad and med school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 interesting perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayne67 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I did my undergrad in Canada but there are many reasons to going to the US for undergrad. There are many opportunities for scholarships. So that 30k tuition can easily be nothing or cheap. Athletic scholarships, academic scholarships, scholarships for being minority, there are literally scholarships and bursaries for everything. Thus, if you do well on your ACT/SAT and have a good GPA, or you excel at a sport (hockey most commonly but also other sports like golf, swimming, lacrosse, etc.) that tuition can easily become cheaper than going to a Canadian school. I was somewhat of a math genius in high school and even I was recruited to go to top schools for undergrad to be on their Putnam teams (the premier North American math contest), with scholarships. Also going to the US can be an experience just by living away from home and experiencing another culture. You gain attachment to your alma mater when you go to school in the US, through college sports and other activities. The experience of attending a college football game with 100000+ fans is something you cannot experience in Canada. Canadians tend only to look at the price tag and end product of a US education (med school or otherwise). We don't look at all the benefits in between. Sure, you can have the same degree at the end but you don't get the experience in Canada. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would've gone to the US for undergrad and med school moo, that's exactly what I was thinking. Everyone I know that went to undergrad in the US never regretted it for an instant. Some of them had the funds while others had nearly full scholarships. But they all did well there academically and had the time of their lives. Even now, in med school, I constantly hear my fellow classmates talk endlessly about the amazing times that they had at michigan or michigan state. And yeah, looking at the "end product" (i.e. MCAT scores and GPA) just isn't an accurate measure of the complete US university experience and even it's future benefits. And while I did still have some good times at the Canadian undrgrad that I attended, if I could rewind back time, I probably wouldn't have been so dismissive against the prospect of studying in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s5260205 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 While it is true that GPA and MCAT are not the only determinants of a "good" education system, medical schools only look at the end results of the applicants, regardless of the happy years they had in undergrad. The society also judges people on their education and occupation. A degree from Harvard and a degree from UBC and a job as a teacher and a job as a doctor all elicit drastically different responses. I believe one of the major factors for anyone to consider medicine is the stability and the high pay associated with the career. Being such a realist, I therefore prefer McGill, UBC, and UofT over Ryerson, Concordia, and York (though the incentive behind the potential higher GPAs has gotten me to re-evaluate my undergrad preferences) and choose to pursue the career as a doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_015 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I believe one of the major factors for anyone to consider medicine is the stability and the high pay associated with the career. Stability is nice yes. High pay isn't/shouldn't be a determining factor for many who become physicians, especially for the amount of trouble and hard work it takes to get there. If high pay is a determining factor for an applicant, they are certainly misguided and looking for something in the wrong field. You truly have to love what the career entails and also helping society. Dealing with the stress and long hours and/or not liking being a doctor but doing so for the sake of money is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s5260205 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Stability is nice yes. High pay isn't/shouldn't be a determining factor for many who become physicians, especially for the amount of trouble and hard work it takes to get there. If high pay is a determining factor for an applicant, they are certainly misguided and looking for something in the wrong field. You truly have to love what the career entails and also helping society. Dealing with the stress and long hours and/or not liking being a doctor but doing so for the sake of money is wrong. In many Asian countries (China, Japan), high school students are admitted into medical schools upon graduation. Without much understanding of the rigors associated with the profession, many students apply to medical schools solely on the supposed "high pay" and "respect" a physician generally receives. Wrong as it seems, that is the general incentive behind the numerous students pursuing a medical profession and the major reason for the sharp decline in students applying to medical schools after first or second year of undergraduate studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_015 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 In many Asian countries (China, Japan), high school students are admitted into medical schools upon graduation. Without much understanding of the rigors associated with the profession, many students apply to medical schools solely on the supposed "high pay" and "respect" a physician generally receives. Wrong as it seems, that is the general incentive behind the numerous students pursuing a medical profession and the major reason for the sharp decline in students applying to medical schools after first or second year of undergraduate studies. Asia is certainly NOT North America. That may happen there but not as much here. While it is true that there are immigrant descendant kids here that do medicine because their parents want them to because of prestige and money, a vast majority know better than to follow somebody else's wishes and want to do medicine for noble causes. Please don't think that the majority of North Americans are going into medicine because of the pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 In Asia, doctors don't make much money. In Japan, fees are ridiculously low for the high cost of living. For example, a simple suture would pay only about 5 bucks Canadian over there. Here, the same suture would pay 60 bucks plus 30 bucks for a tray fee = 90 bucks. Certainly it's not money that's driving kids to go into medicine in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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