Tina_HP Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hey guys. I was just wondering how common are disagreements/disputes between supervisors and students in graduate school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrogirl Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Let's just say I have yet to meet a grad student who hasn't had a disagreement with their supervisor at some point, and I've heard (and seen) some pretty major horror stories. If you want to give us details, we could probably say more. If you're not comfortable posting details on here, you're welcome to PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leap87 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I've disagreed with my supervisor a week ago. It was a big disagreement on some of the key aspects of research and he is my potential supervisor for masters. (I'm 4th year undergrad but I take research very seriously and spend most of my time in the lab). This is not the first time we've had a disagreement and probably not the last. And yes it was pretty bad - let's just say we're still in that disagreement. I believe it's only normal to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina_HP Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 the make up sex is awesome thou...wait... WTF??post a serious response please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 the make up sex is awesome thou...wait...lol. Post of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anastomosis Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Disagreements with graduate studies supervisors are normal. Students spends many years with their supervisors and discuss many topics. On top of that, most grad students and supervisors are passionate about their research and work. I have had several disagreements with my supervisor. On some days I wanted to quit. However, when I stopped to think about it, the main purpose of a grad supervisor is to make the student a better researcher, critical-thinker, problem-solver, etc... (Think Gordon Ramsay screaming at the chefs to make them better at what they do). Most conflicts can be resolved with a little open communication, compromise, and defined boundaries/goals (like most relationship). Some universities have workshops for grad students to have open, honest communication with their supervisors. If this does not work, many universities will have 3rd party organizations to resolve conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina_HP Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Disagreements with graduate studies supervisors are normal. Students spends many years with their supervisors and discuss many topics. On top of that, most grad students and supervisors are passionate about their research and work. I have had several disagreements with my supervisor. On some days I wanted to quit. However, when I stopped to think about it, the main purpose of a grad supervisor is to make the student a better researcher, critical-thinker, problem-solver, etc... (Think Gordon Ramsay screaming at the chefs to make them better at what they do). Most conflicts can be resolved with a little open communication, compromise, and defined boundaries/goals (like most relationship). Some universities have workshops for grad students to have open, honest communication with their supervisors. If this does not work, many universities will have 3rd party organizations to resolve conflicts. How do you deal with a supervisor who doubts your work habits and degree of motivation to excel? You know that you want to work hard and excel but your supervisor doubts you and expresses it openly. How do you deal with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potter Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I have TWO supervisors and let me tell you...I have had MANY disagreements with one and a have had a few with the other. You're not always going to agree with you supervisor. Supervisors are humans too and just like anyone else, you're not going to agree 100% of the time. That being said, some supervisors are a little insane. Hopefully this is not the case for you. What basis does your supervisor have for making comments about your commitment to research and work ethic? Do you currently work for this person, and these are observations they are making? Are they founded? Do other people who work in the lab agree? Maybe you could get some examples from your supervisor about what they expect from you. Outlining goals and appropriate time lines is a great way to go over what's expected of you and how you are progressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 How do you deal with a supervisor who doubts your work habits and degree of motivation to excel? You know that you want to work hard and excel but your supervisor doubts you and expresses it openly. How do you deal with that? Hi there, Perhaps there are expectations that are not being discussed by your supervisor, or personality differences? To give you an example, one supervisor might expect 80+ hours of time in the lab per week starting a 9 am sharp each day with weekly updates on progress, while another supervisor values extra hours but does not have very specific time allocations so long as you have meaningful contributions and discussions during meetings. In anycase, perhaps discussing why they question your motivation and what their expectations are might be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anastomosis Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Potter has some good advice. In my department, students are required to write out research objectives annually and at the end of the year summarize if those objectives are met. These objectives are then sent to the supervisor and committee members. I remember when my grad supervisor told me that one of my colleagues seemed lazy. I knew my colleague really well and told my supervisor that he just was more productive when working on his own schedule. Schedules for grad studies are diverse. My grad studies focused on lab work so on some weeks I would work every waking hour (80-100 hours/week) and other weeks I would work less (30 hours/week). On top of that, schedules are different for each group, institution and country. I've worked in labs both in North America and Europe. Some places/people don't expect people to work on weekends, holidays, graveyard shift, while others do. So, like Potter said, perhaps you could: - assess what your supervisor wants (timeline & goals). - ask the advice of present and previous students/staff on how to deal with the supervisor. - weekly meetings might help, where you tell your supervisor what you will do for that week and what you have accomplished from last week. This might build up the trust issue in the relationship. - maybe you could ask a senior person in the group to put in a good word for you. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drsunny Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Every student and supervisor is different. I know I couldn't agree with my supervisor, and ended up submitting my thesis both without his signature or knowledge. If I hadn't, I would have been forced to stick around grad school for at least another term. We didn't talk for a while. But, I keep in touch now, and he's been a solid reference. It's important on both sides to not let professional disagreements spill over into the personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anastomosis Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Every student and supervisor is different. I know I couldn't agree with my supervisor, and ended up submitting my thesis both without his signature or knowledge. If I hadn't, I would have been forced to stick around grad school for at least another term. We didn't talk for a while. But, I keep in touch now, and he's been a solid reference. It's important on both sides to not let professional disagreements spill over into the personal. The letter of reference (LOR) from the supervisor and his/her evaluation of you as graduate student is also something that needs to be considered. U of T comes to mind where the adcom requires a LOR your supervisor and a form signed by the supervisor stating that you will finish your degree for an application to medicine as a graduate applicant. Ideally, referees should be professional about their assessments. Do you think this is this always the case though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina_HP Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Is it serious when the disagreements end up being discussed on an advisory committee meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereisnotry Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Is it serious when the disagreements end up being discussed on an advisory committee meeting? It all depends how you handle it. You have no control over the topics your supervisor will bring up during such meetings. You can only control how you respond to such criticisms being brought up at such meetings. I'd suggest you reflect on your supervisor's specific criticisms of your work habits etc. that have led him/her to his/her conclusion. Are they invalid, and stem from a difference in schedules/where you work well? For example, I had a colleague in grad studies who wrote papers best in a coffee shop; her supervisor thought she was slacking off and insisted she write her paper in the student computer lab, even though she worked poorly there. Another colleague worked best at night, so his supervisor never saw him around and this led to conflict. If this is the case, do what Potter and others have suggested - be proactive! Assuming that the concerns that were aired at the meeting were related to the initial criticisms you posted about, schedule a meeting with your boss and determine specific expectations he or she has of you, and work your best to meet them. Write down these expectations, and sign that both of you agree to them. This way, you have tangible evidence that you discussed this problem with your supervisor, and produced an action plan. Next, keep excellent records of your hours put in and your progress. Now, you have a way to show your supervisor AND your committee that you responded to this criticism in an appropriate way (even if the criticism wasn't warranted in the first place). Also consider if your supervisor's concerns are valid, even just a little bit. I don't mean this to be unsupportive, quite the opposite. If so, change your behaviour in response to the advisory committee situation. This would show maturity and would be outward proof of your motivation to excel. Do you have another person you can to go to discuss problems with your supervisor? In my grad department, we had an advisor in addition to our supervisor, and their function was to act on your behalf if an unresolvable conflict came up between you and your supervisor (or even just to hear you vent . Mine was fantastic. He was supportive, gave amazing advice, yet would tell me if I was over-reacting or if my supervisor's harsh words actually had truth to them. In other words - a reality check. Even if there is no formal system like this in your department, is there another prof (maybe you took their class or TAed for them) whom you could trust to discuss these matters? Good luck! No one has a perfect relationship with their supervisor (I know I didn't), but if you're really motivated to succeed and willing to put in the time required, you'll get through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anastomosis Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 In my grad department, we had an advisor in addition to our supervisor, and their function was to act on your behalf if an unresolvable conflict came up between you and your supervisor (or even just to hear you vent . Mine was fantastic. He was supportive, gave amazing advice, yet would tell me if I was over-reacting or if my supervisor's harsh words actually had truth to them. It certainly does help to express your concerns and ask advice from someone in person. Question for Tina_HP, did you have your first committee meeting yet? If not, you really need to make it a case for yourself. Explain why you do things and don't do certain things in your studies and work. Supervisors and committee members are not mind readers. If your supervisor is not on your side at the moment, it certainly does help to have the other committee members on your side. Not sure if it's similar for all grad programs and universities, but committee members in my department determine whether a grad student has enough work to write a thesis. So, do your best to win them over. Regarding explaining methods of work and study, I am more appreciative now that some people just write and literature search better at their own schedule. At the risk of sounding like a dinosaur, when I started my research, personal computers were not the norm and literature searches meant spending a day at the library for me. Nowadays, most people have a laptop and most journal articles can be found online. It becomes more apparent to me that some people are 150% more productive at home or at coffee shop rather than at the office/lab. So maybe some supervisors and committee members are dinosaurs like me. Maybe, sometimes dinosaurs need an update on the evolving types of schedules of grad students. Maybe this is not your case, but you still need to reason many things out to your committee members on top of presenting your proposal if the disagreements come up during the meeting. It also helps to acknowledge all their advice and criticisms. Most of them are trying to make you better. Hope things work out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Law Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I have TWO supervisors and let me tell you...I have had MANY disagreements with one and a have had a few with the other. You're not always going to agree with you supervisor. Supervisors are humans too and just like anyone else, you're not going to agree 100% of the time. That being said, some supervisors are a little insane. Hopefully this is not the case for you. Lol story of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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