M.Sc. graduate, aspiring clinician-scientist: in need of insight, advice, suggestions

[Dreamcatcher]

Hi all,

 

I'm a newbie but have been a long-time lurker on these wonderful forums. This is a great place for information and advice and of course mutual support from the many wonderful members on here!

 

So before I go into my sob story, I'd like to introduce myself as someone who was born and raised in Toronto, went to UofT for undergrad (experience-wise: very challenging and learned a lot from the challenges, GPA-wise: biggest mistake of my life) and then went on to do a thesis/research-based M.Sc. at Mac which was extremely enjoyable and has led me to where I am today (either for the good or the bad!). I also enjoy reading (am a mystery junkie), watching movies, and oh yeah, I hate sushi

 

Now that all that's out of the way, I applied to med school (only Mac and UofT) this cycle and was rejected at both places i.e. no interview. This was expected given my pathetic undergrad GPA (<< 3.4 without the UofT weighting formula being applied) and a not so stellar MCAT: 11/8/9/P (VR/PS/BS/WS). Although it was expected, the rejection still hurt, after having applied last year as well. I was obviously hoping that my graduate student status would help things out at UofT but I knew I was being naive as it seems that a stellar undergrad GPA is required regardless, even if you've cured cancer and AIDS.

 

So it is obvious that my undergrad GPA is the main culprit and although it's something that I can't go back and change, it is something I can attempt to improve. I had a really bad undergrad experience at UofT and I really have no one else to blame but myself (and to think I was a gifted student throughout elementary, middle and high school, blah). I've always been a hard worker and although I didn't find the general transition between highschool and university to be too difficult, UofT's number crunching ways became an issue for me i.e. from being labeled as a 9-digit number to the multiple-choice grading system on every goddam test which I simply could not come to master. As a result, I faltered terribly in undergrad and came to doing stupid things like accepting mediocrity i.e. being content with grades that were 'just above class average' (we're talking class avgs of 65 in core classes in my program) and accepting that that was 'good enough' because I was 'in good standing' based on my transcript which only meant that I didn't suck enough to the point of being kicked out, which was great! Ummm yeah Overall, I became really discouraged and instead of seeking help or changing my ways (i.e. finding more effective ways to study, talking to my profs, getting a tutor, etc.), I began to doubt my capabilities and felt I could never beat the system and so I let it beat me, oh and what a beating it was!

 

Anyways, so I had lost all hope after undergrad and had no idea of what to do since med was out of the question (although I wasn't even sure I wanted to do it in the first place). I tried to explore other options and applied to physiotherapy and occupational therapy programs but naturally did not get accepted as a result of my poor undergrad GPA. I then took a year off to work after which I applied to research masters programs to potentially try my hand at research and luckily got into one at Mac, which turned out to be one of the best things that's ever happened to me. No, I did not do the masters to try and redeem things after my undergrad or increase my chances for med school. I actually went into research to explore the field and search for other potential options. Apart from being involved in a great project and learning a great deal both inside and outside the lab (i.e. from benchwork techniques to almost daily literature updates in the field), I did well in grad school, surprisingly came to really enjoy and appreciate research, became inspired by some great clinician-scientists and developed a passion for academic research in the realm of basic science-clinical interdisciplinary, translational work (I sound like a crazy nerd I know). I fell in love with research and it opened my eyes to the great possibilities in research and surprisingly medicine. As a result, I'd like to go into academic research medicine as a physician-researcher i.e. as a clinician-scientist. I therefore started to for the first time, seriously think about medicine and realized that I really wanted to do it and more importantly, realized why I wanted to pursue it. And as a result, here I am. I am so very keen and passionate about ultimately becoming a clinician-scientist, either by doing an MD/Ph.D. program, doing the two programs separately, or engaging in research as a clinician with just an MD and my M.Sc. research background. The possibilities are so very exciting and it seems like the sky is the limit! Ermmm, not exactly. It's something that I'm really quite passionate about but I'm afraid that I'll never be able to make it Sadly, my goals are not in line with my undergrad screw-up with my goals seeming highly unrealistic at this point and it's really killing me. If only I had been this passionate during undergrad, but then again, back then, I seriously didn't know what I wanted to do... urghhh.

 

So now, I'm thinking of either jumping into a Ph.D. since I do love research, going international, or what I've dreaded for so long: going back and doing a 2nd undergrad (hopefully in a shorter amount of time with transfer credits). My poor undergrad GPA needs some serious fixing and doing a 2nd undergrad seems to be the only way. I've learned A LOT from my past mistakes and am confident that with hard work, I can do well. I know what I'm interested in and believe I can choose the right courses that will lead to intellectual and academic success (I highly believe that the two are mutually exclusive, but that's another discussion). I have an interest in psychology and I also enjoyed some of the nutrition courses that I took during undergrad. I could perhaps do a double major in the two in another B.Sc. degree. However, could I get transfer credits from my first degree and do a 2-year B.Sc. in these two majors? I would probably opt to go to Ryerson, York or *gasp UofT. I know there are a lot of you on here that are pursuing 2nd undergrads and I was wondering if most of you are pursuing full 4-year programs or doing accelerated/condensed degrees. In terms of degree options, I already have a B.Sc. and am not sure if pursuing another B.Sc. would be useful since I am thinking about doing combined psychology and nutrition majors i.e. would schools look down upon this? And of course another B.Sc. would be totally useless job market-wise. I could alternatively do a B.A. in psychology I believe. Nursing is another option and I know that there are some condensed 2-year programs.

 

The other option would be to go international i.e. Australia, Carib or the U.S. for D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) school, granted I get in to the latter. U.S. M.D. is out of the question with my stats. My hesitation with these are:

Aussie: high tuition and being soooo far from home, residency issues as an international grad

Carib: high risk as an international grad (i.e. credibility, stigma) for residency, issues with entering into academic research as an MD from the Carib (again, stigma issues? I shouldn't care about stigma but it could realistically create obstacles)

D.O.: competitive to get into now (I'm actually waitlisted for an interview at a school so I'm hanging onto some hope), D.O. vs. MD issues (will I be discriminated against as a D.O., especially since I want to ultimately practice in Canada?), can I be successful in academic medicine as a D.O.?

 

So in light of the issues with international routes, I am keen on staying in Canada as I ultimately desire to practice here. Admission into Canadian schools is a lottery of sorts even with good stats so that's the hesitation with re-application with another undergrad. I could re-do the MCAT to improve my PS and also BS and apply to UofT again with my as-it-is poor undergrad GPA again or do a 2nd undergrad to boost the GPA and make me competitive at more schools across Canada. This would take at least another two years and although it is important to be patient, I feel like age isn't on my side (at 26, ya I know I'm not that old but still) and if I do another undergrad (which my family and friends will think I'm crazy for doing and which would seem like backtracking/digressing at a personal level), granted that I do well in it, I will have to wait until I'm 27-28 to apply and be ready to apply again if things don't work out the first time. The other 'Canadian option' would be to stay in Canada and not do an undergrad, but a Ph.D. I could apply to med afterwards but I feel that personal issues like marriage/family will come in the way (although I'm happily single right now:D), and I would much rather 'secure' the MD before the Ph.D., which is a more flexible program to do later on even as an MD. And like I mentioned, I could pursue my goals as clinician-scientist even without a Ph.D.

 

Phew! I do apologize for the lengthy message! I'm just at a very crucial crossroads right now where I'm contemplating my next step and well, the direction of that next step. Any insight and suggestions are welcome as I know we in the non-trad forum are all in the same boat! I'd therefore love to hear your opinions and insights. Thanks in advance and I apologize for the ridiculously long post (to those that made it through!).

[Noodle]

Hello Dreamcatcher,

 

I think your best bet would be to re-write the MCAT AND do a second undergrad if you really, really, want to do medicine. To get into Canadian schools, unfortunately GPA is important. I did a Masters thinking that it would make me look like a more appealing candidate (and I actually loved my research project), but my undergrad GPA killed my chances at all but one Ontario university. U of T will accept applications from grad students that have low GPAs (3.0), but generally the ones they choose for interview have GPAs >3.8. I have a GPA that is slightly lower (3.7) and got an interview, but it looks like it's the lowest GPA to get an interview that I've seen on premed.

 

A PhD would score you a few points, but it won't erase the 3.4 GPA you have. If you are not totally set on medschool, getting the PhD would open up the door to all sorts of other fantastic careers. It seems like you are passionate about science and researching in the medical field and I think you would do very well for yourself here!

 

Think carefully. I hope that you would get in, but the road into medschool can be long and tedious and you cannot forget that there will always be immense competition. From reading your post, I am guessing that you are up to the challenge. If you do a second degree, do it in something you love, and could use as a springboard if your medschool applications do not work out.

 

One thing that I am beginning to realize is that getting into med school is hard but surviving it appears to be even harder. There is a lot of joy that you would get out of it, but a lot of sacrifices to your personal life would have to be made. Read up more on what medschool students have to go through. If, after reading that, it just fuels the passion inside of you, do whatever you can to get in!

 

I hope this helps a little....

 

Noodle

[Hopeful Med]

You need to be careful doing a second degree with your having a Masters. Some schools won't look at that second degree.

 

I would do the Ph.D. since you like research or go international. Of course redo that MCAT if you want to stay in Canada.

[WaveSense]

a phd won't get you closer to medicine UNLESS you are very productive.. it is possible to overcome a low GPA with high productivity (at least at uoft and calgary, queens as well if you meet the mcat and are relatively close to gpa cutoffs). Judging from your age... it took you 4 years to do your masters? That's pretty long... you have 1 paper from 4 years? You gotta be honest with yourself here, is that because 1)bad luck 2)low productivity? If it's 2, then unless you change dramatically during your phd i don't think you'd have the productivity to be competitive when you apply. We all know that theres more involved in research than just publishing, but unfortunately thats the way the schools look at it these days.

 

Going back to do another undergrad is pretty risky too.. again its no guarantee to get in... what happens if you don't get in again? you have two undergrad degrees and a masters....

[Dreamcatcher]

Hey everyone,

 

Thanks for the replies and the suggestions. Thanks Noodle for putting some things in perspective. And again, just as with my masters, I wouldn't be doing a Ph.D. to increase chances for med school, that would be naive. I am interested in research for what it is and it is definitely a good option for me. I definitely have done my research into med and know that it is a demanding program and I am up for it. My masters was a challenge as well and I was successful as I was driven. Likewise, I am now driven for med and am confident that this drive will get me through.

 

Hopeful_med, yes, doing an undergrad after a masters is concerning to me in terms of how would that be guaged by schools. Hence my hesitation with this.

 

Wavesense, it did not take me 4 years to complete my masters. I started in 2007 and finished last year (2009). I finished undergrad in 2006 at 22 (I was the second last class in highschool that had O.A.C, remember that? hehe) after which I took a year off before going into my masters, hence the 2007 start. We've just hit 2010 and I just turned 26 a few months ago so yes, the years seem to fly by.

 

In terms of productivity, I was one of the most productive grad students out of the labs in my vicinity, as I was told by numerous people. Sure that didn't translate into pubs right away, and that's largely because our lab was new and my PI was new as I was his frist grad student (so that put me at a disadvantage by not having experienced people to work with and a productive lab overall in terms of pubs). So it has been very difficult to get the pubs out since my supervisor is in a tight position with funding and no pubs for himself. I should have at least 3 published papers this year if things go well. Things don't happen right away in research and it is difficult for masters students to publish papers in just a 2-year stint. And publications are not entirely in your hand i.e. yes, you can have the data but it is up to your PI to put it out there when and where they want, which can depend on a number of factors, some of which I have mentioned above. My committee members told me that I almost had enough data for a Ph.D. thesis, which turned out to be as long as one anyways. Sadly, I couldn't contemplate staying at the same lab because of funding issues my PI has. Anyways, I am confident of my productivity and my supervisor has even suggested about talking to his potential collaborators for me to join them for a Ph.D. doing similar work so that I could potentially do a shorter Ph.D. since I have a lot of data from my masters to build upon. Anyways, I feel like I'm trying to explain/justify myself, but really I'm just clarifying things.

 

I'm still thinking about my options and we'll see what happens. Thanks for the input!

[Noodle]

Good luck figuring this stuff out!

 

By the way, I also had to go through OAC. Gr.

[GoReds]

I think if Med is really what you want, the two years of undergrad + MCAT look to be the best option. Taking on a PhD now may take you longer then you think as the details are fuzzy with respect to who your working with etc. In less you had a clear plan of finishing in X number of years (which is always +/- 1 year at least) with Prof Y, I wouldn't consider a PhD in less you truly want to be an academic/scientist. And if you do want to enter the academic stream, I would think of entering a more productive and high impact lab (not that your lab isn't.. just something to consider) as this generally increases your chances of getting such a position (after your post-doc of course).

 

Good luck!

[Dreamcatcher]

Thanks Noodle, and good luck on your interview! When I tell people I did OAC now, they look at me as if I'm an alien lol.

 

I agree GoReds, the Ph.D. would not be something I would pursue to increase my med school chances as it's a fuzzy degree altogether in terms of how it can be interpreted. As things develop with my Ph.D. admission, I may be able to have things worked out in terms of duration, joining a productive lab which includes publication intensity and other factors. As I mentioned, my M.Sc. supervisor is actually willing to talk to collaborators we have been attempting to work with to see if I can join their labs (these are really established people in their field) and do a shorter/condensed Ph.D., building upon my M.Sc. work from which I have a lot of data. My masters lab unfortunately was not very productive from a publication perspective because it was a very new lab and therefore my PI had to, and is still, facing many obstacles in getting pubs and even funding for that matter, which go hand-in-hand unfortunately.

 

So I've learned a lot from my masters experience and if I go for a Ph.D., hope to join an established, high impact and publication-intensive lab (sounds selfish no? ).

 

The second undergrad will be an option I would also have to carefully consider and do more research into.

[dreamer87]

hey

 

did you have some extenuating circumstances during undergrad? personal sickness, family problems, etc etc?

[WaveSense]

if you're confident of your productivity and number of pubs possible then a phd may improve your chances at certain schools. for me personally, i think having 6 papers during my grad school was able to overcome my low gpa and for a few others in my class as well.

[Dreamcatcher]

hey

 

did you have some extenuating circumstances during undergrad? personal sickness, family problems, etc etc?

 

Hey dreamer87, yes I did have extenuating circumstances during undergrad, several of them at that, including the illness and passing of my grandfather, whom I was very close to, along with family in-fighting (the joys of living at home) and working part-time which wasn't conducive to my already troublesome academics. Anyways, I really hate bringing this stuff up because I feel guilty for trying to justify my low undergrad by attributing them to such factors. I did use the extra 'extenuating circumstances' card in relation to your academic ability, which is what I think you may be referring to, but given my hesitation, I felt I may not have effectively communicated my circumstances. And at the end, I said something stupid like 'I feel that grading systems are objective and cannot completely guage academic ability in terms of intellectual capacity and future success'. How ridiculously dumb is that, urghhh! I don't know what I was thinking . Simply put, I don't know how to approach this type of a question...

[Dreamcatcher]

if you're confident of your productivity and number of pubs possible then a phd may improve your chances at certain schools. for me personally, i think having 6 papers during my grad school was able to overcome my low gpa and for a few others in my class as well.

 

Hey WaveSense, although a productive Ph.D. may improve my chances, my undergrad will still be there to counter the improvements *sigh. I cannot kid myself of this.

 

Anyways, did you apply with a masters or Ph.D.? If it was a masters, then 6 pubs is excellent and you must have had great personal productivity and have been part of a very productive, pub-intensive lab! Good stuff

[infomeddude]

DreamCatcher,

 

If I was in your case, and I really wanted Medicine, I would apply to the international schools you listed. I understand that there is a stigma associated with schools like the Caribbean, and the ability to come back and to get into residency, but I think that as long as you excel in the school(~50% of the starting class drop out!), and all the licensing exams, you should find yourself a job in Canada. I personally know a few family relatives who took this route, and are all working in Canada, except one who is now in the states. It can be done.

 

I would not re-take the MCAT, or do another undergraduate degree, because this path does not guarantee admissions to medicine down the road. It may all be a waste in the end, when you apply again.. so I would pin my decision on two choices: PhD vs. Intl MD

 

I wish you the best of luck

[WaveSense]

your undergrad marks are what they are. i had a 3.4 gpa with an upwards trend and i got 3 interviews and 2 offers with a phd. for me personally, going back to undergrad after masters would have seemed like moving backwards and not forwards... but who knows, maybe when you finish your phd even other phds will have 3.9+ gpa.. its a gamble either way

[osmosis]

it would also depend on the specifics of your undergrad and grad gpa. if you had two years in undergrad where your gpa was >3.6, and if you have a solid grad school gpa in whatever courses you were required to take, then you have a shot at school's like u of t, queen's, and u of c.

 

but, if throughout undergrad and grad school, an applicant's gpa was mediocre, then it might be in their best interest to do more undergrad. eventually, med school's want to see that an applicant has the ability to perform consistently at a high level for 2-3 years.

[JB_15]

Ok, let me say that you are not, by any means, out of the running for potentially getting an MD.

 

My undergrad GPA was 3.56 OMSAS (couldnt get the weighting). I have a PhD from U of T. I've already been accepted to Dal Med for this year, and have had interviews in Toronto and Calgary. That's three schools. So anyone who is telling you that your 3.4 is just way too low has no idea what they're talking about. You probably will get shut out by the cutoff schools just like I did, but who cares? There are clearly schools that look well beyond that, including the three I've mentioned.

 

Having said that - you will need to be very productive in grad school. Publish a few papers (2-3), go to a bunch of conferences, and most importantly, get some good clinical experience. Most graduate departments have at least a few MDs who are clinician-scientists that you should try to learn from and follow. If you can show that your undergrad just isn't who you are anymore, people on admission committees will notice. Just work hard.

 

I would not suggest doing more undergrad.

[AndreaM]

I wanted to add that you could have a shot at UofC. Their IP rules are really easy to accomodate and they will use grad courses in your last two year calculation if you took any courses in your masters. They also have a combined MD/PhD program.

[blaaaax]

Don't give up on the grad school route if you are actually interested in doing a PhD, contrary to popular opinion grad degrees can overcome a poor GPA. I had an undergrad GPA of ~3.0 and got into U of T among other schools with an MSc.

[Dreamcatcher]

Thanks everyone for the info and insight.

 

Wavesense, JB_15 and blaaaax, your stories really give me hope and motivation that not all is lost. Congrats on your acceptances! It's really great to hear from grad applicants and acceptees (I may have just made up a word here!) who have gone through the process as non-trads with seemingly unfavourable non-trad odds. Good job guys, I hope I can follow suit one day!

 

Although I am looking forward to potentially starting a Ph.D. in May or Sept of this year, this would of course put the med plans on hold for a few years, even though I have started studying for the MCAT again this week! I could either take my chances with my M.Sc. again this year with hopefully a better MCAT and 2 more pubs (working on them now) on top of the 1 in-press and 1 close-to-submission that I already have (I am first author on the former and second author on the latter). I will probably be going back to the lab to do supplemental experiments for these soon. My grad productivity has been pretty good (I think) with a good number of abstracts and conference/institution-based research day presentations. The other option is to go straight to the Ph.D.

 

My hesitation with doing a second undergrad, as I mentioned, is that personally, I would feel like I'm moving backward not forward, as Wavesense has also said, especially after having a M.Sc. at this stage. Also, I'm not sure how schools would regard my pursuit of a second undergrad after a masters- again, not exactly progress. But if numbers is all they want to see, then I guess attempts to pursue and achieve at higher levels won't mean anything sadly.

 

JB_15, I agree, even if I get shut out by schools like Queen's and Western by not having stellar undergrad GPA years, it doesn't matter. I'd probably get shown the door anyways with their soaring MCAT cut-offs. I am in no way picky or choosy about schools anyways. And you have seriously nailed it in the head in that my undergrad is just not who I am anymore. I couldn't have said it better myself and I truly appreciate that there are people like you on here who have an understanding of things beyond 3.9 GPAs and 35 MCATs.

 

Wow, blaaaax, you got accepted with a 3.0 at multiple schools? Kudos to you! When were you accepted and what was your grad productivity like? You must have also had amazing ECs.

 

So it seems that I'm not favouring the 2nd undergrad given my academic status and interests. It's a gamble but I'll keep playing at the table!

[A-Stark]

What are your grad marks like? I'd recommended rewriting the MCAT at the very least - I'm not sure about the Caribbean (or especially the DO) route insofar as becoming an academic physician. If you can get each of your MCAT scores about a 10, you'd probably be able to get an interview at Dal, I'd think, and there's usually a lot of movement on the non-maritime wait list. So... don't give up just yet. If I may ask a further question, would you be happy with academic work without the clinical angle? That is, is research sufficient or do you feel a real need to be involved in clinical medicine?

[Dreamcatcher]

What are your grad marks like? I'd recommended rewriting the MCAT at the very least - I'm not sure about the Caribbean (or especially the DO) route insofar as becoming an academic physician. If you can get each of your MCAT scores about a 10, you'd probably be able to get an interview at Dal, I'd think, and there's usually a lot of movement on the non-maritime wait list. So... don't give up just yet. If I may ask a further question, would you be happy with academic work without the clinical angle? That is, is research sufficient or do you feel a real need to be involved in clinical medicine?

 

Hi A-Stark, thanks for your post. My grad marks were all A's, so a 3.9 average. My M.Sc. was thesis-based with only 2 required courses and so I'm not sure how my grad marks would be assessed in relation to courseloads and weighting.

 

My hesitation with Carib and DO is exactly what you have pointed out- would I limit or altogether diminish my opportunities in pursuing academic medicine? The DO route seems a bit better (despite the fact that the DO school of thought emphasizes primary care, which I'm not opposed to but for my purposes, I'd probably want to go into a specialty) only for the fact that I would be attending a U.S. school and therefore obtain U.S. education which would help overcome some of the hurdles I would face as an IMG from a Carib school. On the other hand, the DO route has its own hurdles of course.

 

I have looked into Dal and I don't think my chances are too good as an OOP applicant (they only accept 9 non-Maritimers I believe). I am planning to re-write the MCAT but I'm not sure if a good MCAT score can overcome my GPA deficiencies. My undergrad GPA has some minor upward trends but 1 or 2 bad courses in 4th year for example sent my GPA crashing. Hence I don't have a 3.7 in any of my years to meet the 3.7 best 2-year cut-off (I wouldn't make it even with my graduate GPA). Bad situation.

 

Your last question about whether I would be satisfied with academic research without any clinical work is something that I am currently trying to answer honestly for myself as well. Although academic research on its own could be a very fulfilling and rewarding career, I think I would probably look back and have 'what-if' regrets i.e. could I be doing more as a clinician? I have always been interested in medicine (prior to undergrad but for different reasons) and now even more so having gone through basic science research. For example, I'd really like to have the ability to understand diseases that I may be working on from a basic science standpoint at the clinical level as well i.e. understand manifestation of diseases and knowledge about current treatment strategies. At a more direct level, I want to have the ability to diagnose and treat patients firsthand and take what I learn in the clinic back to the lab and vice versa in a manner of translational knowledge studies. So yes, having that clinical knowledge is important to me. I know that we can't have it all, but just 'what if' *sigh.

[Dreamcatcher]

So I've been doing some crazy research, and driving myself insane and getting sick and sore from countless hours of net use (I also feel an oncoming cold ). I think I'm taking all of this really hard

 

So I've been looking into schools in AB and may be able to apply as an IP (may finally make the move out to Calgary or Edmonton- something I was considering before med school became a priority anyways. So now may be the best time. But it would seem kinda calculated to schools, no?).

 

Looking down south, U.S. schools have post-baccalaureate and special masters programs that are offered to degree students to help enhance the undergrad GPA. This may be a better route than doing an entire 2nd undergrad. While it may improve my chances for U.S. schools, I'm not sure how Canadian schools would assess such programs.

 

Looking further south, I have thought about Aussie schools but not sure if I can afford the $50,000 tuition in the chance that I do get in.

[T. Funke]

So I've been doing some crazy research, and driving myself insane and getting sick and sore from countless hours of net use (I also feel an oncoming cold ). I think I'm taking all of this really hard

 

So I've been looking into schools in AB and may be able to apply as an IP (may finally make the move out to Calgary or Edmonton- something I was considering before med school became a priority anyways. So now may be the best time. But it would seem kinda calculated to schools, no?).

 

Looking down south, U.S. schools have post-baccalaureate and special masters programs that are offered to degree students to help enhance the undergrad GPA. This may be a better route than doing an entire 2nd undergrad. While it may improve my chances for U.S. schools, I'm not sure how Canadian schools would assess such programs.

 

Looking further south, I have thought about Aussie schools but not sure if I can afford the $50,000 tuition in the chance that I do get in.

 

I know NOTHING about U of A.

 

For a formula school like U of C, it is my impression that if you meet IP requirements you are afforded all the advantages of IP. I can't fathom a spot in their admission formula, where they could justifiably remove points from you for being "calculated" and only moving to AB in hopes of getting into medical school.

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

My advice is take any advantage you can get, and don't look back.

[MicroMo]

I am an IP student in Alberta with a MSc in Bacterial Pathogenesis with a focus on infectious diseases in health. I had a 4.0 in my MSc and a lower undergrad GPA with an upward trend. I also did Engl upgrading to meet U of A reqs.

Anyways, I have applied here in Ab twice and not gotten an interview. Your story is *very* similar to mine and some of these replys have given me hope. However, I still feel pretty lost on what to do. I really don't want to go back an do more undergrad courses. I am also hesitant about starting a PhD for the wrong reasons. It is a 4-yr commitment and requires a stronger work ethic then a MSc does. If you are not going in for the complete love of basic science, you will likely burn out by yr 2. At least that is what I worry about.

Currently I am working as a Lab technician at the hospital and I work directly with physicians and patients which has given me some amazing exposure to patient care.

I applied to UQ last year and got in. I also applied to the ABP this year and going to TO for an interview in April. However, I am not sure if I want to go international because of the costs and difficulty IMGs face finding Residency placements in Canada.

Regardless, the interview will be a good experience and I am still trying to decide if I want to go or not. I am not sure if I should try again one last time in Canada or take an offer if I get one this year for Ireland. My score for U of C seems to be only a few points off from what last years IP cut off was. So I am not sure what I should do to try and raise this score or if it is even worth it?!

Also, it is good that you are happily single! I was too and then ended up meeting someone special enough to make this decision even harder!

[dreamer87]

I am an IP student in Alberta with a MSc in Bacterial Pathogenesis with a focus on infectious diseases in health. I had a 4.0 in my MSc and a lower undergrad GPA with an upward trend. I also did Engl upgrading to meet U of A reqs.

Anyways, I have applied here in Ab twice and not gotten an interview. Your story is *very* similar to mine and some of these replys have given me hope. However, I still feel pretty lost on what to do. I really don't want to go back an do more undergrad courses. I am also hesitant about starting a PhD for the wrong reasons. It is a 4-yr commitment and requires a stronger work ethic then a MSc does. If you are not going in for the complete love of basic science, you will likely burn out by yr 2. At least that is what I worry about.

Currently I am working as a Lab technician at the hospital and I work directly with physicians and patients which has given me some amazing exposure to patient care.

I applied to UQ last year and got in. I also applied to the ABP this year and going to TO for an interview in April. However, I am not sure if I want to go international because of the costs and difficulty IMGs face finding Residency placements in Canada.

Regardless, the interview will be a good experience and I am still trying to decide if I want to go or not. I am not sure if I should try again one last time in Canada or take an offer if I get one this year for Ireland. My score for U of C seems to be only a few points off from what last years IP cut off was. So I am not sure what I should do to try and raise this score or if it is even worth it?!

Also, it is good that you are happily single! I was too and then ended up meeting someone special enough to make this decision even harder!

 

that's sad to hear whats your MCAT like? maybe re-write and get a better score? you could also try reviewing your extracurriculars and try to do something more that makes you stand out more?