Some advice needed on where to live...

[dreamer]

This is a bit of a personal question, but I think it would certainly be better if I asked it since the knowledge base on this board is staggering. But, I've basically finished a 2nd undergrad and I'm looking for a place to chill out while I apply to Meds. I have a low cGPA (~3.0) but strong last 2 years (4.0).

 

I did a second degree hoping to rock it and then apply to Western / Queens. I worked my butt off and achieved the GPA cutoffs, but now I'm getting stopped by the MCAT cutoffs (i.e. verbal). It's frustrating as hell after putting 2 years of work + summers of pain but I'm trying my best to stay positive and push through it...

 

So... Just trying to decide (albeit very quickly) where my next step is. I had everything planned out to live in the East Coast to get IP residency there but now I'm thinking why not live in Alberta or Quebec?

 

So I'm really thinking about shooting for Dal. At least I would be on level playing field with everyone since they only look at past 2 years... Although both schools would only look at my second degree, somehow I feel a skeptical about that for McGill. However, Dal is obviously the only school in the East coast and from ~300 interviews, they accept 70 - 80. That's probably not the best odds. McGill accepts about the same number from around 130 interviewees I believe. So does anyone know how relatively hard it is to get into McGill or Dal for IP? Alberta is also an option with 2 schools, but I'm already at a disadvantage due to them looking at all years.

 

I think I'm gonna give this a few more years, then I'll start thinking about going to medical school overseas and slogging my way through the system to practice in Canada... Thanks guys!

 

p.s. I used to know of a pdf somewhere that had all the admission stats to each Canada province (ie. how many applied OOP / IP, how many accepted OOP / IP?) Does anyone know where I can get that?

[future_doc]

McGill is not bad odds for IP if you have a competitive GPA, it can be as low as 3.5something but to be safe > 3.8, with good ECs, volunteering and LORs....so you would spend a year in Que w/o being as fulltime student to qualify for resdiency for purposes of med school. Your chances of getting an interview and acceptance are prob better than any other med school as an IP.

[LostCause]

McGill looks at CGPA, so I would cross that one out.

 

You need to focus on schools that look at the last 2 years.

 

 

Given your stats, getting IP in the Maritmes would likely let you skip having to do a 2nd degree since Dal looks at last 2 years and would allow you to get away with a 7 in Verbal.

 

I have no clue how hard it is to get IP for Dal.

[dreamer]

I believe McGill looks at the GPA in your second degree though which would be good in my situation. But I just have the hunch that you'd still be held accountable for the past work.

[future_doc]

Ask them by email.

[LostCause]

Concerning Dal...

 

I am just seeing that you have 4.0 in your last 2 years. I am not sure what your MCAT score is, but Dal would allow you to compensate a low verbal score since they let you go as low as 7. I don't even think you need a 30 overall, they routinely interview mid-20s I believe. The overall cut-off is 24 I think. You better check the admission stats. This is all assuming you are IP.

 

So once you are IP, you can apply as a competitive applicant without doing a 2nd undergrad. Plus, Dal likes well rounded students so if you work while trying to get the IP, you would better your application.

 

 

Concerning McGill...

 

They look at CGPA, so you would have to start a new undergrad.

 

If you start another undergrad, you first have to gain residency and then start it. You cannot gain residency while you are in school. So minimum, you are looking at like a year to gain residency before the application deadline of the undergrad program you want to start. It actually takes closer to 15 months to get residency I think. Plus, you have to do it in time to make the application deadline for a new undergrad program which is probably a few months before September. So I estimate living in the province around 20 months before the September start date of your new undergrad. Almost 2 years. Then it would take you like 2 years to complete the 2nd undergrad. Then McGill doesn't let you apply using your 2nd undergrad until you have 2 years completed in it, so add another year before you can apply.

 

In summary, it could be 5 years before you get into McGill. That is awfully long time to wait around to get a chance to just apply at McGill. Much longer than the other routes.

 

 

 

 

Concerning Alberta....

 

Alberta is a different story because I believe you just have to be in the province a year to get residency, and the year of the application cycle actually can count towards residency. It has two schools, but I am not very well versed in their admission requirements so I don't know how hard it would be for you to become competitive in these situations. This route actually seems to be a favorite because it gives you 2 schools with reasonable cutoffs if you are in province.

 

 

 

 

This is off the top of my head...DO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING AS FACT.

 

Given I have seen people move to Alberta for Medical school applications on several occasions, I assume that is the easiest route.

[dreamer]

Thanks LostCause. I greatly appreciate it.

 

Sorry, I don't think I made it clear that I already did a second undergrad degree with a competitive GPA. So in theory, I've cleared the GPA requirements of McGill. I've cleared the cut offs for Dal IP so that wouldn't be a problem as well.

 

I think I've narrowed it down to Dal and McGill. Alberta with two schools would be good choices if your cGPA was okay, but not really bad. I think I'm bordering on really bad so I figure that one good chance is better than two moderate chances at entry...

 

I'm still looking at this residency thing for Quebec. It's utterly confusing... But I think the next step would be to take a look at those admission stats, but I can't seem to find them. Do you know where I can find that document for every Canadian school?

[LostLamb]

I would also consider if you want to live in QC or NS. I know that once anyone gets into medicine, they really don't care where they are living because they are finally fulfilling their dream. However, since you have to bide your time a bit to become a resident of a province, are you sure you are up for it?

I don't know your personal situation (steady relationship, kids, close family ties, solid employment, volunteer commitments, etc) but be sure to think about them as all of these would be impacted by your relocation too.

As someone who switched provinces, I would definitely consider the appeal of the locale as part of your decision making process.

Good luck!

LL

[future_doc]

Here are some old stats I collected (sorry, it didn't come out as on my Excel, but perhaps it might be useful as is):

 

 

UNIVERSITY IF INTERVIEWED NORMAL INTERVIEW MIN MEAN OUT OF OOP CLASS NO. OF COMMENTS

CHANCES OF NO. OF INTERVIEWEES GPA GPA PROV. STUDENTS SIZE APPLINTS

ACCEPTANCE & LORs QUOTA TORONTO SUMMER

SEE>> >> >>

 

U of M 34% yes 5 265 2,116 1,891 Que

41% get applied, 785

interviews interview.,265

accepted,don’t know

cegep/degree

breakdown

U of Sherbrooke 24% yes 33 194 1,733 or.chem required

44% get interviews prob.based teaching

1,538 Que applicants,

685 interviewed, 163

accepted,don’t know

cegep/degree

breakdown

McGill 21% yes 3.5 higher 16 173 1,377 696 Que applicants,

EDP Early Decision 46% get interviews [75 from 319 Interviewed,

Program Que w 156 accepted.

will make decision degrees, only half of 75 taking dual MD-MBA

for interview w/i half into or MD-PhD program

10 business days of MDCM [80 accepted=cegep grads]

completed Appl'n program]

 

Laval yes 4 208

 

 

 

U of Toronto LOR/Essay are yes 470 3.6 3.9 no 249 2,734 interview 450

Very Important

 

 

Queen's U yes, 1 hr, 3 people depends no 100 1,851

2009 have created on pool

written pre-interview

section

 

McMaster 34% 3.83 yes, 10% 21 164 4,847 942 OOP applic'ts,

5% OOPs get qualified 20 194 4,725 50 interviewed, 15 accepted

interviews OOP no stats re early acceptance

interviewed Formula: GPA 32%,ABS 32%%,

VR MCI 32%, Grad. 4%

After Interv: 70%MMI, 15%GPA

15%VR of MCAT

 

 

U of Alberta 15% 3.5 3.8 15% 27?? 188 1,500 For Inter:cGPA=30%;Activ=20%;

[12% OOPs get 11 144 1,274 MCAT W=5%;MCAT=15%. Post

interviews] Inter:ABOVE plus Inter=25% &

LORs=5%

4th yr must have 3.7GPA/4.0

634 OOP Applic'ns,74

interview, 11 accepted

 

U of Calgary 19% 3.6 3.6 15% 27 180 1,476 on-site essay

[29%? Get Interviews] on a 4.0 20 115 for 10% of eval.

22 135 1,405 MMI=50%,GPA=20%

Activities=10%

MCAT=6%,LOR=2%

Per'l Essay=2%

721 OOP applic'ts, 99 interview.

20 accepted

2008:108 OOP interviewed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

U B.C. 27% 3.7 500 apply 12 256 1,000 22.8% B.C.

[7.4% get Interviews] max. of 12 resident appl'n

OOP rate

accepted 499 OOP applied, 37 interview,

10 accepted

 

U of Ottawa yes 3.9 ? 16 143 540 107 Eng stream

Organic &

Biochem

Required

3 LOR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Memorial U of yes, 1 hr, 2 people 3.8 8 60 520

Newfoundland

 

Dalhousie 3.8 10

 

THE U OF 3.75 no 171 1,803 honours bachelor program

WESTERN or eqivalent

ONTARIO

 

NOSM 64

 

 

U of MANITOBA 17% 4 10 100 957 619 OOP applied,59 interview.

9.5% OOPs 11 64 10 accepted

interviewed

 

 

U of Sask 6 80 568 50 OOP interviesed from 368

 

 

USA Int'l

Wake Forest U medadmit@wfubmc.edu 3.7 3 120 7,485 405 IS applied, 3 interviewed

Winston-Salem 3.59 3 accepted

N. Carolina

 

State U of NY if not accepted to EDP, 3.8 17 160 4,481 410 IS applied, 84 interviewed

Syracuse may apply to other sch'ls 3.54 17 accepted

& will be considered

after Oct 1 for admiss'n

[el911128]

From Dal admissions website:

 

Applicants who will have been, or will be, in the work force for 24 consecutive months immediately prior to the commencement of studies in the Faculty of Medicine will normally be presumed to be resident of the place where such employment occurred.

 

 

Unfortunately I believe the app deadline for Dal has already passed for Sept 2011.

[nosuperman]

Would you not be competitive for Dal regardless of your status, since your last 2 year GPA is so high?

 

It seems like moving out east would be putting a lot of eggs in one basket, and it would obviously be more time consuming. Moving to Alberta would open up more opportunity and also take less time. In fact you could probably move and apply now and be competitive for this cycle.

[LostLamb]

Too late to move for this cycle to be considered IP Alberta.

[nosuperman]

Too late to move for this cycle to be considered IP Alberta.

 

I thought it counts the first day of class? Though AB policy certainly isn't my strong suit.

[LostLamb]

I thought it counts the first day of class? Though AB policy certainly isn't my strong suit.

 

May still have time (a week?) to move to AB for U of A policy, but it is too late for U of C for this year.

[Genemo]

I am thinking of Alberta simply because it has 2 schools

[dreamer]

May still have time (a week?) to move to AB for U of A policy, but it is too late for U of C for this year.

 

Yeah. I was considering U of A and U of C before, but for someone with a really low cGPA, I think a good shot at Dal or McGill is better than two poor / moderate chances in Alberta.

 

Yes I do know I'm putting all my eggs in one basket. But I've put all my eggs in one basket since going into this whole med school thing! I knew there would be no turning back once I started it, and the only way to get out of it was to get in...

 

I think I'm gonna ask a "what are my chances" thread in the corresponding forums. Thanks!