CIHR or NSERC??? Help please!

[hannah.lo]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm applying to McGill's Master of Dental Science. The research I'm interested in has a bit of an oral public health twist to it. Should I be applying to NSERC or CIHR? I'm leaning towards more CIHR, but both awards are science based research so am a little confused.

 

A bit about myself, as an undergrad I did not always take on a full course load. However, without first year my overal gpa hovers at about 3.6. I have worked in 3 labs over the past 5 years and received an undergrad nserc during the summer.

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks!

[bloh]

Do you not have a supervisor? Your supervisor will easily be able to tell you which one you are more competitive for.

[hannah.lo]

well, I will be approaching supervisors this fall.... so haven't been in contact yet with any of them. I'd like my first contact to be about what research I'm intersted in doing with them and not necessarily asking them straight out about funding.. Anyways, any ideas?

[bloh]

From what I remember when I applied to CIHR for a Masters award, I needed to have a project in mind, with clear guidelines and objectives. The deadline for CIHR/NSERC is months away (IIRC) so perhaps you should find a supervisor first.

[NewfieMike]

just because it's "science based" doesn't mean it's not suitable for CIHR. "science based" is an extremely vague term, and would fit under an umbrella of different funding agencies.

 

From personal experience, when considering CIHR/NSERC, you need to really consider your research goals with that of either company. And you do need to have a specific project in mind, so a supervisor is necessary.

 

Here was my dilemma when I applied: I did basic science research that related to motor rehabilitation and recovery in stroke patients and associated neuroplastic brain changes. From here, it's all about wording.

 

NSERC: I use a model of ischemic stroke to study the biochemical brain changes associated with recovery.

 

CIHR: We study neuroplasticity in the recovering brain to better the functional outcome of stroke patients.

 

exact same research project, but with a different emphasis. Other disciplines are more clear cut. most chemistry/physics/engineering with apply NSERC, most clin epi/population health/etc. will apply CIHR. It appears from the general program you're looking at that it will be a CIHR driven project, but once again, you need to know the specific project.

 

Also, deadlines are sort of close. For NSERC anyways. CIHR is a little later but keep in mind that the university has internal application deadlines that come up sooner than the actual national deadline.

[BRD]

Also keep in mind that there is a limit to the number of times you can apply for CIHR (2 or 3... I can't remember). There is no limit to how many times you can apply for NSERC. You are unlikely to get CIHR funding without a publication, though it is possible. As mentioned, make sure you read the eligibility criteria for each funding agency and alter your proposed research accordingly. NSERC may think your proposed research is fantastic, but if they think it falls under the CIHR realm they will throw out your application.

[bloh]

Also keep in mind that there is a limit to the number of times you can apply for CIHR (2 or 3... I can't remember). There is no limit to how many times you can apply for NSERC. You are unlikely to get CIHR funding without a publication, though it is possible. As mentioned, make sure you read the eligibility criteria for each funding agency and alter your proposed research accordingly. NSERC may think your proposed research is fantastic, but if they think it falls under the CIHR realm they will throw out your application.

 

This is untrue. Having a publication gives you a very tiny (read: negligible) boost toward your application score. The biggest deciding factor is your GPA, letters of support, project outline and resources available to you (i.e. your lab and supervisor). I wrote a detailed guideline a while back on this subject that I don't have the patience to look up but if you are interested, look through my posts on the subject (I believe it's in this forum subsection).

 

Also, it is very difficult to be eligible for both agencies. It is very rare for a PI to hold operating grants through both agencies; you're either CIHR or NSERC so don't think you can fudge your way through by altering your project. There's a single best way and you best find it by speaking with your supervisor.

[sparkles3288]

This is untrue. Having a publication gives you a very tiny (read: negligible) boost toward your application score. The biggest deciding factor is your GPA, letters of support, project outline and resources available to you (i.e. your lab and supervisor). I wrote a detailed guideline a while back on this subject that I don't have the patience to look up but if you are interested, look through my posts on the subject (I believe it's in this forum subsection).

 

Also, it is very difficult to be eligible for both agencies. It is very rare for a PI to hold operating grants through both agencies; you're either CIHR or NSERC so don't think you can fudge your way through by altering your project. There's a single best way and you best find it by speaking with your supervisor.

 

Not true re: publication. Depending where you are in your graduate degree, publications may/may not make a big difference. If you are starting out in your MSc, then yes, publications give you a boost but not that big of a difference. If you're a 2nd year PhD student, then publications are crucial to securing funding. I'd love to see where you got the information about publications only giving you a tiny boost?

 

I obtained CIHR recently (at the end of my first year of MSc). When I applied I had 3 publications (none first author) and all the commenters said that was one of the biggest things in my favor. I have no doubt my publications significantly helped my application, probably even securing funding.

[bloh]

Not true re: publication. Depending where you are in your graduate degree, publications may/may not make a big difference. If you are starting out in your MSc, then yes, publications give you a boost but not that big of a difference. If you're a 2nd year PhD student, then publications are crucial to securing funding. I'd love to see where you got the information about publications only giving you a tiny boost?

 

I obtained CIHR recently (at the end of my first year of MSc). When I applied I had 3 publications (none first author) and all the commenters said that was one of the biggest things in my favor. I have no doubt my publications significantly helped my application, probably even securing funding.

 

 

Damn you for making me go look this stuff up

 

I got it from my official score breakdown when I won the award myself several years ago. They looked at 3 things: academic/research experience, personality and research environment. Without giving away too much they were worth roughly 2:2:1.

 

Publications went under "academic/research experience" which looked at GPA and publications (of which I had none). I had a high mark - conclusion is therefore very simple.

 

What reviewers comment in the box at the end is not necessarily representative of how your score is calculated. Your 3 publications may have just given you the edge to get you over the barrier or that's just what they wished to comment on. One of my comments were with regards to an undergrad supervisor and her training environment which is obviously irrelevant at this point. Ironically, that reviewer still marked me high on "research environment" which just goes to show that their comments aren't reflective of how your score is determined. It's just a comment box.

 

I can't comment on the scoring criteria for a PhD award as I never went through it.

 

You know, these awards are rather easy to get but you do need to have the support of your supervisor. Remember that grades aren't super inflated for graduate students. The vast majority of graduate students aren't crazy premed students that broke their back for a high GPA. A 3.6-3.7 is very competitive here. You will make or break your application when you try to outline your personality, research goals and the training environment of your supervisor. It's imperative that your supervisor writes an excellent letter of support detailing why your project is great, why you are an excellent person for it and why you have all the tools at your disposal to go at it.

[Brainz]

I'll agree that publications are important, but also writing a good research proposal that you and your supervisor both worked on. I applied last year with 2 submitted pubs, didn't get it.

 

CIHR has much fewer awards this year. For master's students, there's only 100 awards across canada. I'm not applying this year to it.

[sparkles3288]

Damn you for making me go look this stuff up

 

I got it from my official score breakdown when I won the award myself several years ago. They looked at 3 things: academic/research experience, personality and research environment. Without giving away too much they were worth roughly 2:2:1.

 

Publications went under "academic/research experience" which looked at GPA and publications (of which I had none). I had a high mark - conclusion is therefore very simple.

 

What reviewers comment in the box at the end is not necessarily representative of how your score is calculated. Your 3 publications may have just given you the edge to get you over the barrier or that's just what they wished to comment on. One of my comments were with regards to an undergrad supervisor and her training environment which is obviously irrelevant at this point. Ironically, that reviewer still marked me high on "research environment" which just goes to show that their comments aren't reflective of how your score is determined. It's just a comment box.

 

I can't comment on the scoring criteria for a PhD award as I never went through it.

 

You know, these awards are rather easy to get but you do need to have the support of your supervisor. Remember that grades aren't super inflated for graduate students. The vast majority of graduate students aren't crazy premed students that broke their back for a high GPA. A 3.6-3.7 is very competitive here. You will make or break your application when you try to outline your personality, research goals and the training environment of your supervisor. It's imperative that your supervisor writes an excellent letter of support detailing why your project is great, why you are an excellent person for it and why you have all the tools at your disposal to go at it.

 

Interesting. I was always told that publications were the "make it or break it" sort of decision in CIHR. I only applied once and I had publications, so I didn't know any other way. However, I applied to AHFMR (provincial funding) without publications and didn't get it my first time. Second time I applied with pubs and got it. I sort of thought it would be the same across the board.

 

Thanks for the info!

[leap87]

I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that CIHR is a bit different than NSERC. From what I gathered, you need a pretty strong GPA to get NSERC. For CIHR, not so much. While NSERC might still look at the whole package, I believe they put much more emphasis on your undergrad GPA. If you have a great research proposal/training environment and a project which is interesting with a problem that should be addressed, you're more likely to get CIHR. They also look at your and your supervisor's publications/conference presentations etc. So having publications will definitively help you but being creative in your application with also give you a boost.

 

I received CIHR as an undergrad - no pubs, but good training environment and an interesting project. I haven't yet applied for Master's but I plan on writing the application the same way. You've got to engage them in some way and convince them that your project is important as well as outline why this would be a benefit in the health care field. That's at least what I gathered.

[NewfieMike]

I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that CIHR is a bit different than NSERC. From what I gathered, you need a pretty strong GPA to get NSERC. For CIHR, not so much. While NSERC might still look at the whole package, I believe they put much more emphasis on your undergrad GPA. If you have a great research proposal/training environment and a project which is interesting with a problem that should be addressed, you're more likely to get CIHR. They also look at your and your supervisor's publications/conference presentations etc. So having publications will definitively help you but being creative in your application with also give you a boost.

 

I received CIHR as an undergrad - no pubs, but good training environment and an interesting project. I haven't yet applied for Master's but I plan on writing the application the same way. You've got to engage them in some way and convince them that your project is important as well as outline why this would be a benefit in the health care field. That's at least what I gathered.

 

yeah I think you're pretty spot on with the last part. I wouldn't be so sure that CIHR has less emphasis on GPA. Since there are so few awards, there are going to be people who have both a great GPA as well as a great research environment/proposed project. Undergrad NSERC/CIHR is a lot different.

 

I'm not bothering with either this year. 1 year ONLY awards with no renewal are pretty annoying.