Benefits of problem based learning?

[Miranda82]

I am from U of T, and I'm very used to going to lectures and learning in that style. Do you think it will be hard going from that environment into the PBL based McMaster style?

[joba17]

I am from U of T, and I'm very used to going to lectures and learning in that style. Do you think it will be hard going from that environment into the PBL based McMaster style?

 

It all depends - I am in a PBL program right now and I love it! However, I know many people who really have struggled with the cross-over. It all depends on the type of learner you are, and what styles work best for you! If you have a good personal awareness of how you best learn ( ie: small tutorials, independently), then that may be some indication of how well the PBL style will fit you, but you really can't know until you try it ( sorry - I know thats not really helpful). PBL isn't for everyone, but it is a great way to learn if you can adapt to it!

[Miranda82]

Thank you!

 

So you're enjoying the PBL based so far? I think your advice makes sense, and the PBL will work for me. I hope I get the chance to try it out! Thanks again!

[itimebomb2]

Takes time getting used to, but after a couple months I find it hard to think of any reason why anyone would want to learn by listening to lectures from 9 to 4 every day (or is it 8 to 5?!). It's a much more efficient way of learning, imo, and if you're hardworking, you'll certainly do well.

[future_doc]

And, I would think, it prepares you best for continuous lifelong learning - which is a necessity for physicians.

[Femto]

And, I would think, it prepares you best for continuous lifelong learning - which is a necessity for physicians.

 

I believe this is the exact reason why institutions have chosen to utilize PBL. I have read that although many students are somewhat behind non-PBL students in the first few years of residency in terms of their understanding of basic sciences, the skills they have learned through PBL result in greater clinical performance in later years, when, arguably, your most productive years as a physician are anyway.

[future_doc]

Yes. Being able to learn how to learn is a skill of its own. And we need to learn how to teach ourselves, n o lectures, not told what to learn. We need to know the knowledge we need to constantly update and acquire, the skills we need to learn and given time contraints in future practice, we need to learn efficiently. I think self-directed learning and PBL is fantastic and is necessary for our futures.

[Miranda82]

Thanks very much for the advice everyone!

[leescait]

I'm in first year at Mac and I love PBL.

 

Granted, I have the advantage of arts background and an MA that was all seminar style, so I have more experience with the model of doing my own research and coming back to discuss it. But I know most people feel similarly.

 

All the learning I do during the day, during the normal block of lecture time that most schools have, is active learning. It's not just listening or copying down what someone says, it is actively reading, understanding, and applying to the case study. The time that I learn is time that I am already 'studying' - so when our 'Concept Application Exercises' (aka exams) roll around every 3 weeks, it's not like undergrad where you go back and have to actually LEARN what you have been lectured on.

 

The PBL groups, in themselves, are a learning experience. I'm fairly concept oriented, and my first PBL group had a girl that was very detail oriented. Our group negotiated the tension between setting objectives of details versus concepts, but in the long run, one of the most important things I have learned during our first Medical Foundation was how to learn and strike a balance between concept and detail. That girl in my group wound up playing a majorrrr role in how I approach learning now and synthesis the right amount of detail into my knowledge and notes - and I love my group because she always has such interesting things to share that I may not memorise, but really add to my learning.

 

The PBL groups are pretty invaluable for that reason.

 

We do have several lectures a week as well, that typically supplement the PBL cases. Some of them are great, some of them aren't, and I wind up teaching it to myself PBL style anyway. We have a thing every few weeks called a CPC, where, in a lecture style format, we are given a case and work through a diagnosis, the differential, and the medicine behind all of that.

 

In short, it is a transition, but one that is fairly easy I think. Your PBL group will really help to negotiate that balance and it's definitely not a journey you take alone.

[Miranda82]

Thanks for all the responses! You guys have eased my concerns.

[switchit]

And, I would think, it prepares you best for continuous lifelong learning - which is a necessity for physicians.

 

LOL

 

There are many benefits of PBL (as leescait pointed out), but this is NOT one of them. I still have no idea how/why people think that Mac graduates are "the best at" or "are the only ones" that are "continuous lifelong learners."

 

I shadowed an interventional cardiologist that graduated from McGill. What did he do on his break? Read the latest study on cardiac caths in the New England Journal of Medicine.

 

I shadowed a respirologist that graduated from UofT. What did she do during lunch? Read a paper about inflammation in the lungs from Nature Reviews.

 

I shadowed an oncologist that graduated from UBC. What did he do during his break? Read an entry in UpToDate about a rare familial disease and look up a new cancer drug in LexiComp.

 

There are lots of benefits to PBL (as leescait pointed out), so more and more schools are implementing it at least partially (usually in addition to the hours of lectures they have). But the "PBL best prepares you for life long learning" is a myth. Seriously. All med graduates are prepared to learn for their entire lives.

[hastin11]

In reality, I have been finding its not THAT much different from lecture style learning. The only real difference I find is that the tutorials (in which you discuss the material you were supposed to learn) are twice a week, which forces you to keep up. Also, the talking about it in tutorial sort of solidifies it in your mind (I find).

 

I would agree with the above poster that the PBL doesnt really prepare you any better for lifelong learning. I suppose maybe you learn about the strategies used by others, but the benefit of this is questionable.

 

I would def say right now I am satisfied with the PBL, and I probably find it more FUN than attending/memorizing lectures. However, I do acknowledge I learn less anatomy than if I had gone to UT (although I would also argue I know more clinically).

 

In summary I guess, the differences between this and non-PBL are overstated. It is an effective way to learn, but it is NOT some magic formula that makes you an epic people person and a lifelong learner.

[PAstudent]

Reading this thread I have, at times, been tempted to jump-in and offer voice. However, now that I have finally decided to do just that, I post with trepidation because the discussion has been so polarized. Indeed, the very reason I am jumping in is to speak to that very polarization.

 

I want to make sure the position from which I am coming is understood precisely because of how polarized things seem to be here. Please allow me to say a bit about myself: I am a graduate of the McMaster Health Sciences program that is so often the target of ridicule. I am currently a student in the Physician Assistant Program of the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster. Thus, I have been a PBL student at McMaster for many years and have had the opportunity to do PBL courses in many different subjects. I have also had the opportunity to take many non-pbl courses both at McMaster and at other Ontario universities. In addition to studying medicine within the McMaster PBL framework, I have also been involved in teaching/facilitating PBL courses.

 

Now, here is what I have to say about studying medicine using PBL: I am very-much a proponent of PBL. I enjoy it and prefer it to the traditional course-structures I have experienced. But, I don't think it is more effective, efficient, productive, or better in any way than a more traditional style of learning, with one caveat that I will mention later.

 

The current literature on PBL agrees with my sentiment

When looking at indicators of performance in residency and in post-residency practice among physicians, there is no statistically significant difference between those who attended a PBL medical program and those who attended a more traditional program. I tried finding the exact studies I am thinking of but, at this moment, they have eluded me.

 

In medicine, we must all know the same basic foundational things. We must all be responsible for our own learning and, as pointed-out by others in this thread, also for our own continuous learning throughout our careers. The skills picked-up in learning-how-to-learn might come faster to some, perhaps even faster to some in a pbl school because of the pbl, but that is largely irrelevant because the importance of having those skills is far greater than the trivial nature by which they were acquired.

 

The caveat: for me, the only benefit of PBL that is not as prominent in traditional schools is that the PBL format allows for individuals to tailor there own learning with great efficiency. We all have areas in which we are weak an those in which we are strong; instead of forcing an entire class of individuals with individual strengths and weaknesses to attend the same lectures, PBL allows people to draw on their strengths and work on their weaknesses. That is not to say that a more traditional curriculum precludes this, only that a PBL curriculum, in my opinion, makes this easier and more likely, especially under the time-constraint of medical studies. I can choose to attend the large-group-sessions on topics that I am weak in (or sometimes the ones I am strong in because of great interest). I can choose to read more on my weaknesses. I can help my classmates by engaging them with my strengths. Yes, all of these things can be done without PBL as well. I just think that PBL fosters and facilitates this individuality better than most other learning methods.

 

Also, it must be stated that PBL and case-based learning are not necessarily the same things and that many would argue that much of what goes on in the PA and MD programs at McMaster constitutes case-based learning but not Problem-based learning. Of course, that, in and of itself, is an entirely different debate.

 

Finally, to offer a simple answer to the OP's question: McMaster selects candidates that are likely to do well in PBL. If you made it far enough to obtain admission to the Michael G DeGroote School of Medicine, I have little doubt that you should be able to succeed in your program. It really isn't THAT different from what you have done thus far. There is a body of knowledge, skill, behavior and language you must now master. You will be given many resources and lots of help along the way, but only you can do this for you. Good luck! :-)