controversy

[Guest just watching]

I've heard stories about students who didn't get an interview even though they had an interview the year before and have improved their application. I've know a student who has evidence that UO admission sent him a rejection letter without even reading his application. The fact that they don't provide feedback or react aggressively whenever students request it just makes the admission process of UO med very suspicious. I and probably everybody on this board would be very interested to hear your stories!

[Guest sandy]

thank goodness i got accepted to other schools. because there is no way in he$$ that i want to have to deal with the kind of staff at ottawa, let alone sub-par program and resources.

 

sandy

 

accepted: western, u of t, and ottawa

[Guest Melissa13]

I just wanted to say that I have been very happy with the way I have been treated by the University of Ottawa, probably because they accepted me. I think that it is a little harsh to hack on a staff that you have barely had any contact with, unless of course you have attended the medical school there, and I highly doubt that is the case. Any of the students that I have been in contact with, and having attended the same campus with them for my nursing degree over the past three years, seemed pretty content with the treatment they were getting. Secondly, I would hardly call Ottawa a sub-par school, and in retrospect why would anybody who applied there, went to an interview there then want to call the school sub-par? Why would you apply to a school like that in the first place? The negative comments have been fast and furious over the last few days but I would just like to say that I will be HAPPILY attending the University of Ottawa this year. Furthermore, if one would wish to continue to hack on the school of my choice please, please could you do it in the forum where you accepted an offer because it just takes away from my own and 122 other candidates accomplishments that are ecstatic to be attending Ottawa U.

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Mellisa13,

 

It would be great to hear what your perspective is on positive and negative aspects of admissions processes for all schools you've applied to and any suggestions you might have for improvement.

 

Peter

[Guest Bel]

I too feel Ottawa U has an excellent medical school. I have had a positive experience with the Ottawa staff - every single time I talked with them. In fact, last year when I was rejected for Ottawa without an interview they did offer me some informal feedback. I asked them why I didn't get an interview - they told me. They also sat down with me and went over the admissions criteria with me for about 1/2 hr and explained to me what they were looking for. No they didn't go through my file and say you need more EC or pull up your marks. But, they did discuss their admissions criteria in general. They even took the time to help me make a tough decision - decide to start a masters or take a year off. They were really kind and understand. However, I went to talk to them in July. The admission office is very very busy right now. They are dealing with a lot of angry and bitter people who are waitlisted or rejected who want answers. (I don't think all people in this category are angry and bitter - but the ones who call call and call and make it known). When you call you may just get a secretary who has been yelled at a million times already that day. My suggestion is to go in in the summer and try to get some feedback.

 

I can't say I am going to accept my offer from Ottawa or one of the other two I have gotten. But, I truly feel Ottawa is an excellent school! Not sub-par.

 

Also, admissions to med is not a random process. I didn't get an interview last year - I fixed my application and I got in. People with big conspiracy theories are obviously not ready to go into medicine! The admissions committee is not out to get you - they are out to find the most qualified canidates for medicine.

[Guest stargirl]

Bel,

 

would you mind giving a general overview of what those admissions criteria were and what you did to improve your application?

 

thanks!!!

[Guest Bel]

Basically, for me it was quite simple. My first year GPA was quite low - due to a bad calculus mark. So, when I applied this year that year wasn't counted - so my GPA soared above the interview cut off. I already had strong ECs etc. They basically went over the autobio questions (not my answers). They told me that next year (which was this year) the autobio would be wieghted a lot more than in previous years-which is public knowlege. I apologize, but I don't really remember exactly what they told me.

 

My game plan for applications after my five rejections came last year was to be honest with myself about my application. I took a serious look at the admissions criteria and apps for each school. I wrote a list for each in terms of meet or did not meet. For instance, for Western and Queen's I didn't meet the MCAT cutoff - so I re-wrote the MCAT. For Toronto and Ottawa - I needed to get a 4.0 in fourth year - so I worked my but off to get it. I added relevant ECs - hospital visiting etc.

 

So, to answer your question the admissions criteria are right in the OMSAS booklet. They are the Ottawa autobio questions. So, for instance if you are missing research - volunteer/work in a lab in the summer. If you don't have great ECs - volunteer at a doctors office. In OMSAS they also state what they are looking for - I don't remember exactly but something like compassionate - self directed etc. Make sure that those qualities come through in your application.

 

GPA cutoff for interview change every year - they were able to tell me what they were for the year I did not get in.

 

Mostly, they were able to help me realize that I didn't need to do a masters - unless I wanted to - that my marks will be sufficient next year to get an interview minus my first year marks (wich weren't counted). I had a 3.89-4.0 in 2,3,4 year. So, pretty safe to say that I would probably meet the GPA requirement for an Ottawa app interview.

 

Anyways, I am for sure not an expert just because I got in. Every applicant has a unique appliaction due to their own personal history. Many really really qualified people did not get in this year. I concede that there may be some luck involved, but I truly felt that I had a very strong interview and a positive interview experience...

[Guest shkelo]

I think many people think the admissions process is a well-oiled machine. I don't think this is necessarily true. It isn't chaos behind the scenes either, but the real flaw in the application process is the amount of subjectivity it employs, especially in the interview. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anyway around that. Applicants must have a sink-or-swim attitude applying to med and, most importantly, they should know how competitive they are (realistically) compared to other applicants. Every year, med schools get over 1000 applications for a handful of spots. The applicant that thinks that they are wonderful, despite their low GPA, is not being realistic about their chances of gaining admission. Definitely a long shot!!

 

Applying to med school isn't rocket science, but you have to know how the system works. For example, med schools have no way to access the difficulty of your particular program so (in the sciences anyway) there is no way to distinguish a general B.Sc. from an Honours Neuroscience B.Sc. And there is a difference - the biggest of which is the flexibility between the two programs. Which would you rather do? A required 500-level course with long-answer midterm and final exams and three 10-15 page papers or a 200-level course with a multiple-choice midterm and final exams, many questions of which are recycled from old exams that can be obtained from the campus exam registry. It's a no brainer, isn't it? One of the major determining factors to get into med school is a stellar GPA. How else can you explain someone who has a PhD (the highest intellectual degree offered), but because of their "low" GPA, they don't get in. That's a flaw in my opinion. (I think some people with PhDs could teach some of the courses in med school. There is a BIG difference in experience over a 2nd year undergrad student.)

 

GPA isn’t everything, of course, and certainly doesn’t guarantee you a spot in medicine, but I would have to say that those people with higher GPAs have a better chance (more cushioning if you will) because of the heavy weighting of GPA in the admissions process. Without a doubt, the two most difficult barriers to overcome in med school admissions (for most applicants) is getting a really good GPA and having a great interview. Each school has different weighting for other components though (MCAT or the essay especially), but in general, GPA and the interview are most heavily weighted.

 

I’ve been rejected before. I know, it hurts (!!) and people deal with it in different ways. Just remember though that there is nothing WRONG with you. The rejection is not meant to be a personal attack on your character, your morals or your life. The person that phoned the office to threaten legal action definitely has a screw loose somewhere…and has me thinking. I wouldn’t be surprised if people in that office have gotten death threats or the tires on their car slashed. People do some weird things sometimes to cope with their rejection. I can’t say I’d recommend legal action against a med school though – that’s a recipe for the quickest way to the black list. Med schools talk with other med schools – gossip gets around. This is probably why Ottawa doesn’t offer feedback right after the rejection letters are sent out. Previous applicants have ruined it for everyone else. One thing I’ve learned though – nothing is written in stone. Bel, obviously, was able to receive some feedback, but mostly on how the system works and what it meant with her particular scenario. In my opinion, this is the route to take…in clear and simple language.

[Guest Jan]

I agree. I was one of those people who thought that even though I did not make the GPA/MCAT cutoff I was going to get in. I thought - they are going see me and my essays and ECS and think - wow we have to interview her. Then reality hit (about the same time rejections hit) and I realized that I have to comply to what they want. I know it doesn't seem fair all the time as many strong canidates don't get in.

 

As for interview feedback I agree that interviews are highly subjective. Interview feedback would be difficult. For instance, if they told someone they didn't seem very compassionate or empathetic one of two things could happen.

 

1) They would argue endlessly with the admissions committee that they are - very high probably

 

2) Next time around they would change their interview tactics to seem more compassionate. That may seem like a good thing. But, interviews are the one and only chance for the admissions committee to judge a canidate. If a canidate were trying to be compassionate and caring when maybe they really aren't (it is possible) it may not truly be reflective of who they are. It may be an act because that is what they think they have to do to get in.

[Guest Jenny]

Sandy,

 

don't you think that you were a little bit harsh on U of O? sure, i would like to attend UWO(rejected) and U of T(waitlisted) over U of O, like you and some others, but i wouldn't call U of O sub-par. even if i don't get an acceptance from U of T, i wouldn't mind attending U of O.

 

Ottawa's an okay city too. there ARE things to do there and it's not that cold.

 

Jenny

 

accepted: U of O

waitlisted: U of T

rejected: UWO, Mac, Queens

[Guest dd]

For the record, sandy, Ottawa is just as good of an institution as any other medical school in canada.

 

Just because you are bitter about a bad experience, really shouldn't taint the bigger picture. Sub-par? Fewer resources? I think you should read the facts more.

 

Anyways, no matter where you do your undergrad, we will all still be MD's. All the schools teach the same stuff, the only difference is how they teach it.

 

I agree with the comment earlier.... WE HAVE ALL WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET HERE. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, RELIEVE YOUR STRESS SOMEWHERE ELSE. DON'T BELITTLE OUR HARD WORK AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Ottawa med students are just as strong and successful as others across the board. For example, I got into UWO, U of T and U of O, but declined UWO and U of T for U of O. WE ARE ALL THE SAME.

 

One love.

 

DD

[Guest PeterHill0501]

I agree with Melissa13, Jenny and dd,

 

While I didn't get an offer from Ottawa this year...I most certainly don't think it's a bad/sub-par school with poor facilities...why on earth would I apply to such an institution? I think to suggest that is being negative in a mean-spirited way. I know several people (including my wife) who have been through the U of O program and who are excellent physicians...they have all had excellent education and have many very positive things to say about Ottawa U's program. After considering the programs at several schools, I believe Ottawa is as good or better than many of them.

 

With respect to "bringing down" applicants who were successful...I also totally agree. Those who have received offers or who are on the "good" waitlist have achieved an INCREDIBLE milestone...congratulations to all of you who have achieved this...you should be very proud of yourselves and your lifelong accomplishments...I am quite envious! Also, thanks for posting your experiences over the last year or so it's been great to be able to reflect on the knowledge and experiences of both those who were successful and those who were unsuccessful this year. I personally believe it is a worthwhile thing to share our experiences to help those who are starting off for the first time...and those of us who are starting over again (like me) manage expectations, etc, and improve our applications and interviews for the next round! I have personally received tons of very positive and some very negative feedback with respect to my personal application and, as well, other people's experiences and applications. This feedback has been very helpful to me...it's made me reflect...and the learning will be applied to my application in the upcoming round. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.