quackster Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 my pet peeve with Mac is that they claim to be favourable towards non-traditional applicants, yet they can't forgive my not-so-hot GPA (which I'm sure is what held me back), no matter how great a CASPer performance. If that's the case they should have a 10-year rule like UBC, or special consideration for people who have been out working for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 my pet peeve with Mac is that they claim to be favourable towards non-traditional applicants, yet they can't forgive my not-so-hot GPA (which I'm sure is what held me back), no matter how great a CASPer performance. If that's the case they should have a 10-year rule like UBC, or special consideration for people who have been out working for some time. They do allow people to overcome not-so-hot GPA's. I saw some in the 3.45 to 3.6 range. Mine was 3.62, and Mac is basically the only school that looks at cGPA that I have a good shot at, thanks to CASP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repede Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 They do allow people to overcome not-so-hot GPA's. I saw some in the 3.45 to 3.6 range. Mine was 3.62, and Mac is basically the only school that looks at cGPA that I have a good shot at, thanks to CASP. From the mention of "10 year rule" and "special consideration", I think not-so-hot GPA in this case might go lower. To have been out working is extremely valuable experience, but there isn't any way to use that experience (no essay, no consideration for Autobiographical Sketch pre-interview) to overcome that barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 my pet peeve with Mac is that they claim to be favourable towards non-traditional applicants, yet they can't forgive my not-so-hot GPA (which I'm sure is what held me back), no matter how great a CASPer performance. If that's the case they should have a 10-year rule like UBC, or special consideration for people who have been out working for some time. I have a similar problem. I truly felt that for all save one question I did very well on CASPER, but my combined cGPA and VR (3.51 and 10 VR + MA) score meant that I had to ace every single question (in my estimation). even a .1 boost in cGPA would have helped significantly, but because I completed my undergrad at a time when I did not give a sh** about medicine and was in many respects a completely different person, I am at a significant disadvantage when applying. In order to bring my cGPA to 3.75 I must do an entirely new degree and achieve a 4.00. A little unreasonable if you ask me. Perhaps if they looked at the last 15 or 20 credits even, then one could redeem one's GPA. This seems reasonable. And my situation is not even that bad compared to others. At least I can always try to improve VR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_s Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 my pet peeve with Mac is that they claim to be favourable towards non-traditional applicants, yet they can't forgive my not-so-hot GPA (which I'm sure is what held me back), no matter how great a CASPer performance. If that's the case they should have a 10-year rule like UBC, or special consideration for people who have been out working for some time. You're definitely wrong, and there is quite a bit of misinformation about cutoffs in this thread. To give you all hope, as an OOP, I received an invite to interview despite a mediocre cGPA (OMSAS 3.30). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quackster Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 You're definitely wrong, and there is quite a bit of misinformation about cutoffs in this thread. To give you all hope, as an OOP, I received an invite to interview despite a mediocre cGPA (OMSAS 3.30). yes, but you're one of how many? being favourable is not synonymous with a handful squeaking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 yes, but you're one of how many? being favourable is not synonymous with a handful squeaking in. Sorry, I completely disagree. Weighting GPA, something you work for years on, at just 25% while one personality test is at 50% is about as favourable as you can expect for people with low GPAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 You're definitely wrong, and there is quite a bit of misinformation about cutoffs in this thread. To give you all hope, as an OOP, I received an invite to interview despite a mediocre cGPA (OMSAS 3.30). May I ask what your VR score was? I was basing my assumption on prior scores I had seen posted. This gives me some hope, although whether one can improve upon CASPer is the real question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Sorry, I completely disagree. Weighting GPA, something you work for years on, at just 25% while one personality test is at 50% is about as favourable as you can expect for people with low GPAs. GPA is something that many work hard for. My biggest problem with the GPA thing is that in many cases one is unable to work hard and attain a good GPA, because one has already messed up a number of years ago. Thus, the cGPA is not put into it's proper context. Not only that, GPA can be so variable depending on the university. Grade inflation is a very real phenomenon. As a TA I saw the difference in marks now versus the difference in marks only nine years prior when I began my UG degree. I was instructed not to fail anyone, and thus the entire class is marked according to a standard of utter crappiness. But maybe that is just a humanities problem. But you're right, weighting CASPer at 46% is probably about as fair as you can get, and I am still pleased that McMaster has left an avenue open for redemption. Just have to try again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quackster Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 25% is still significant. I'm not arguing for getting rid of GPA in the assessment. I'm arguing in favour of a system that acknowledges different paths to medical school that isn't simply a personality test that was 1. marred by technical issues; 2.applicants taking it at later dates and times having the advantage of hearing about it from other applicants who had already completed it, and on this forum to boot; and 3.apparently scored by first year medical students, which if the case, makes me wonder who made them experts on judging "personality" That being said, I appreciate McMaster's innovation. I strongly believe they are moving in the right direction judging by the stats of those offered interviews, and I'm glad those people got interviews. But it still puts non-traditional applicants at a significant disadvantage in a numbers game, despite purporting itself to be "admissions friendly" to them. Instead it's just friendli-er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadon Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 To have been out working is extremely valuable experience, but there isn't any way to use that experience (no essay, no consideration for Autobiographical Sketch pre-interview) to overcome that barrier. IMO CASPer is the BEST way to express this experience. I truly felt this is how I was able to "overcome" a GPA that means most schools in Canada won't consider me (Dal, McGill, Calgary, Ottawa). Almost every question I was able to use real life experience and I feel that made me stand out from the traditional applicant far more than an essay and a sketch! I think people with relevant work experience have a huge advantage in CASPer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 the only way prior knowledge helped me was realizing that I had to just be honest and blurt out the first thing that came to mind. Even then, I messed up the first section by not realizing there were 3 questions per section. CASPer is definitely fairer to non-trads. Is it fair enough? Maybe not. But life is unfair. Also, an argument could be made that it is not very fair to traditional students, since it downplays their well planned out GPA. Too much focus on fairness generally leaves everyone unhappy, especially when there is a limited supply of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 We have to realize that it's not meant to be fair. Mac is using CASPer because they feel it correlates with the type of students/doctors that succeed in their program. Whether this is true or not is yet to be seen. But Mac is typically ahead of the curve in admissions research. Look how many schools have adopted the MMI. I agree that it would be nice if they looked at your last 20 credits (4 years) rather than your cGPA. Luckily, in Canada, there are only a few schools that look at cGPA, so you have other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigo Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 We have to realize that it's not meant to be fair. Mac is using CASPer because they feel it correlates with the type of students/doctors that succeed in their program. Whether this is true or not is yet to be seen. But Mac is typically ahead of the curve in admissions research. Look how many schools have adopted the MMI. I agree that it would be nice if they looked at your last 20 credits (4 years) rather than your cGPA. Luckily, in Canada, there are only a few schools that look at cGPA, so you have other options. The question that I have is how exactly are they marking Casper? What traits are being evaluated?? I used logic to answer the questions, but maybe the markers are looking for the most compassionate or empathetic answer and not necessarily the most pragmatic one. Ethics questions are never black and white. These test remind me of the writing section of the MCAT --- even an essay good enough to be published in the New Yorker would score less than a Q without the expected structure. How can we mold ourselves to the container if we don't know what the container looks like? Let's be honest --- there are too many commonalities in first year med students for the selection process to be totally meritocratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 How can we mold ourselves to the container if we don't know what the container looks like? Let's be honest --- there are too many commonalities in first year med students for the selection process to be totally meritocratic. Maybe you're not supposed to mold at all? Maybe they're trying to gauge everyone's instinctive response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 To give you all hope, as an OOP, I received an invite to interview despite a mediocre cGPA (OMSAS 3.30). What was your verbal score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_s Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 What was your verbal score? Wasn't great. Scored a 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Wasn't great. Scored a 12. Thats actually really high for verbal congrats! I'm glad to see someone with a low cGPA get an interview, there is hope! If only I'd done better on verbal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_s Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thats actually really high for verbal congrats! I'm glad to see someone with a low cGPA get an interview, there is hope! If only I'd done better on verbal.... As an OOP applicant, I truly did not expect that such a score was good enough. It certainly isn't phenomenal. Nevertheless, it's nice to see that there is perhaps more merit to maturity & depth of responses on the CASPer and that interview offers are based on a seemingly more holistic perspective than just merely having a gratuitously high GPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigo Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Maybe you're not supposed to mold at all? Maybe they're trying to gauge everyone's instinctive response? If I had written what I instinctively thought was a well-constructed, concise essay with detailed and appropriate examples on my MCAT, however, I would not have scored an R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnewbie Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I thought the point of CASPer was to capture your true traits, not the ones that you believe they are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigo Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I thought the point of CASPer was to capture your true traits, not the ones that you believe they are looking for. So what about the age-old medical school interview question: "So, why do you want to pursue medicine?" The "true" response for many would be 1) money, 2) prestige 3) chicks. I doubt that would be very well-received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proton Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 guess that's why they're shifting to MMI. Even if a question like that gets asked, there are 9 other stations that are likely to be less bull****table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubZteR Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Sorry, a pet peeve of mine. Not surprised by the story though. I have had a few acquaintances interview/get accepted at JHU, HMS (not Stanford though) and being rejected from U/T. Not too surprised. All these schools have a holistic approach to admissions and it is competitive. PS: I'm on board the rejection train in this thread. Expecting it w/ my sub-par verbal (9). Holding out a lot of hope for my alma mater to show some love . competitive yes ... but i wouldn't agree that JHU, HMS have holistic approaches. Unless you apply as a URM, you really need at least have a min of 35/36 MCAT in order for them to even look at the rest of your application! btw .. i'm also one of those applicants that got rejected from UofT without interview but managed to get into a prestigious US school so I can relate .. but it was only possible because I had an above avg MCAT score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGGSaint Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 competitive yes ... but i wouldn't agree that JHU, HMS have holistic approaches. Unless you apply as a URM, you really need at least have a min of 35/36 MCAT in order for them to even look at the rest of your application! btw .. i'm also one of those applicants that got rejected from UofT without interview but managed to get into a prestigious US school so I can relate .. but it was only possible because I had an above avg MCAT score. Nice! Where are you at if you don't mind my asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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