JB. Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 They let an untrained volunteer describe medical procedures? That just seems really sketchy to me. Nothing against you, btw- just surprised they wouldn't have the doctor or at very least a nurse go through the procedure w/ patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarathonRunner Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I don't think any consent form mentions non-specific "learners", so much as others who the surgeon may "designate" to participate in the procedure. If this ever came up in a lawsuit, it is very reasonable to doubt that the presence of people who are not registered in a health professions education program and are there simply to "shadow" would not become problematic. I've had two surgeries in the past, and I read over the consent forms VERY carefully. There was nothing in either one (the surgeries were at two different hospitals) that mentioned "learners". I DO remember that, for the second surgery, there was a special note indicating that a resident would be assisting my doctor with the surgery, and I was quite concerned about that. So I definitely WOULD have noticed anything about general "learners". As someone who is starting medical school this fall, I definitely understand and appreciate the fact that residents (and medical students) need to practice and learn, but, as a patient, I truly want the most experienced person possible, someone who has done plenty of similar surgeries, looking after me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I also believe it depends on the province, you'll get a lot of resistance though, you're not insured and patients are often not comfortable having "non-medical" students there, plus you're usually restricted to one or two sessions (versus I've been shadowing a psychiatrist for 6 months, etc.). I think a lot of it has to do with insurance and legal liability, you can be held accountable if the doctor ****s up I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawalac Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 They let an untrained volunteer describe medical procedures? That just seems really sketchy to me. Nothing against you, btw- just surprised they wouldn't have the doctor or at very least a nurse go through the procedure w/ patient. Sorry, it seems as I was using the term "described" very loosely. I would just tell them what area of the body they would be examining and what articles of clothing they would have to take off. For example, if they were doing a pelvic scan I had to tell them to take off their pants if they had any metal, take off their bra if they were doing a chest X-ray. That's pretty much the extent of my "description". Sorry for being vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB. Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Oh! Gotcha! I'm picturing you describing a surgery or something. Makes total sense once you clarified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I've had two surgeries in the past, and I read over the consent forms VERY carefully. There was nothing in either one (the surgeries were at two different hospitals) that mentioned "learners". I DO remember that, for the second surgery, there was a special note indicating that a resident would be assisting my doctor with the surgery, and I was quite concerned about that. So I definitely WOULD have noticed anything about general "learners". As someone who is starting medical school this fall, I definitely understand and appreciate the fact that residents (and medical students) need to practice and learn, but, as a patient, I truly want the most experienced person possible, someone who has done plenty of similar surgeries, looking after me. I don't think you should be concerned about residents and medical students doing anything beyond their range of competency. The staff surgeon is always there scrubbed in much more than a supervisory role. In any case, I've done lots of consents and cannot recall seeing anything about unspecified "learners". I imagine some centres have such stipulations on consent forms but not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curi0user Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 um well I don't think it's illegal - I shadowed all sorts of people, did a co-op at the hospital and had my hands in people's abdomens and assisting in surgeries when I was 18...I think it's more about consent, trust, and professionalism Whaaat? as an undergrad student?? where?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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