I am slowly going crazy,1-2-3-4-5-6...

[aaronjw]

Switch!

 

Hey all,

 

Relatively new to the forums but have been reading for a few months now and I thought I'd take a moment to share my story up until this point and in doing so I'll try to stick to brevity

 

I'm 34, soon to be 35 at the end of this month. I originally went to University for business and mathematics 14/15 years ago. I played football at Western and ended up breaking my neck (C2) in a car accident after my second year.

 

For the past 11 years of my career I have been accomplished in marketing and for the past 7 of those years my expertise has focused on digital marketing and measurement to become one of the leading experts in Canada.

 

I am also an amateur bodybuilder and compete in local and provincial shows plus I coach kids football.

 

Growing up, medicine had never really been an interest of mine despite having a lot of my family involved in medicine in one fashion or another and even had it been an interest I could never have afforded it. It's amazing how life experience can change your mindset. For the 7 years or so, the human body specifically nutrition, biomechanics, endocrine system and biochemistry have become a big hobby of mine and I say that's mostly in part to my bodybuilding and sports background and thanks to the internet I have had access to research and information that I ordinarily wouldn't have had access to. I read journals every day and have in my collection of books more than a handful of textbooks. The point I am illustrating is that my hobby is more of a passion of mine than my own career has been.

 

I've come to learn that while I am very good at marketing and have been able to make a very comfortable living at it over the years I do not LOVE marketing and it's time to start doing what I LOVE.

 

That's my history. My present is that I have applied to York U for the Kinesiology program and plan to take the BSc route in hoping of being able to pursue medicine.

 

I have a couple bumps in the road before being accepted into York and that is that I need to go back to High School (lol) and get my Grade 12 Physics or Chemistry. Math I already have. Thankfully for distance learning I can do this and have already applied for the course and should receive my package next week. But instead of JUST getting my physics or chem I am going to do both of them and I am going to do a math as well. We don't solve complex math in marketing (haha) so I figure a refresher can't hurt

 

Academia has never been an important thing to me and thus my marks always reflected that BUT I have recognized the flaws which made me a poor student in the past and have already put into action plans to address that.

 

I don't know what the future will hold and whether or not I can attain the GPA to pursue medicine but if not then I feel there are options to pursue research or teaching opportunities at a PhD level.

 

I have a great support system in my g/f and some of my family (hers are very supportive and always believe in education) and friends as well as my Doctor who was the catalyst to me exploring as a reality instead of a fantasy.

 

Anyway, that's my story and I thought I would share up until this point. I am excited beyond belief but I am also scared. School at 35 is a scary thought but I don't care.

 

So much for brevity but I want to end with this final thought: It's ok to fail and it's even ok to quit but not trying at all is NEVER ok.

 

Cheers

[aaronjw]

Thank you reply!!

 

Determination I definitely have but as we all know drive and determination isn't always enough so I'm really hoping my time out of school and in the business world has taught me how to focus on studies.

 

 

I should also mention that I am welcoming any and all feedback and especially tips on how to become a better student which I've discovered is different than becoming a better learner.

 

Also: for anyone who has taken Kinesiology I'd love some feedback on textbook material. I'd like to start getting ahead on my studies by doing as much prep work before hand as possible.

 

Thanks all!!

[thehumanmacbook]

For medicine in Canada:

 

1) GPA (>3.8 cGPA and wGPA)

2) MCAT (will change in 2015 somewhat)

3) ECs (already have a lot, don't worry so much about this one...maybe add in some research or hospital/related stuff)

4) LORs

 

Need to do well in these "hoops" before application. Afterwards it's somewhat of a lottery. You will not be penalized for your age.

[aaronjw]

Officialy.

 

Meaning what?

[aaronjw]

For medicine in Canada:

 

1) GPA (>3.8 cGPA and wGPA)

2) MCAT (will change in 2015 somewhat)

3) ECs (already have a lot, don't worry so much about this one...maybe add in some research or hospital/related stuff)

4) LORs

 

Need to do well in these "hoops" before application. Afterwards it's somewhat of a lottery. You will not be penalized for your age.

 

 

Thanks for your reply. Already aware of the GPA req's but always good to be reminded of it

 

Already working on the research/hospital stuff as my Doc is working connections to get me dpi g some grunt work in local labs.

 

References letters are already not a problem: two MD's, Professor in BioPhysics at Western, and a host of others but I'm sure as I move along my schooling some of these will change but so far I feel good about those who are willing to stump for me.

 

The GPA will be biggest focus and likely my biggest challenge

[kylamonkey]

Welcome to the forum!

 

I was a personal trainer before going back to school, but I have an endurance sports background- ultrarunner/adventure racer. I also found myself realizing (early in my fitness career) that I wanted to go much deeper into the body. It sounds like you're kind of at that point too.

 

Here's the best advice I can give you- pay attention to this forum and be a TRADITIONAL student, as much as you can. I know it's tempting to try to get it all done faster, work thrugh the summer, etc., but most schools are going to be looking at FULL-TIME years, which is your typical 5 full year courses, sept-april. It's great that you've signed up for the distance courses, but since you'll be doing them over the summer they won't really "count" for those schools looking at FT years. For the non-trads, you'll find that a lot of the things that traditional applicants take for granted (such as taking courses "corresponding to your year of study" like Western requires) are actually somewhat difficult to obtain and require some careful planning.

 

Officially you won't be penalized for your age, but there are ways that your age can subconsciously affect the people reviewing you as an applicant, especially in the interview. Because you're physically fit you probably don't LOOK like you're in your mid-30s, so that's a plus. Your colleagues in university won't have any idea about your age because they won't even really know what a 35-yr-old looks like in real life. I'm 31 and they usually peg me at 25-ish, not because I look that age but because that is the "right" age for someone to be in their classes.

 

One thing I am concerned with is that you might be incredibly bored in some of your courses, especially in the first year. I took a few courses in the kines field and found that it was really, really basic. Hang in there- it gets much more interesting. Maybe York will be different, I have no experience there

 

All this said- I hope I'm not sounding negative. Preventative health care is something that is often overlooked and I hope I won't be too swamped with work once I'm a physician to take the time to educate patients in this realm. I'm not sure if that's your take on the situation too.

 

-Don't procrastinate

-If you want to keep your partner, listen to her, and if you don't want to keep her then let her go now

-Be traditional and take 3 FT yrs of school (this will allow you to apply to as mny schools as possible)

-Keep up your extracurriculars, but remember, school is your JOB now, so treat it that way

-Make academic contacts and try your hand at research

-Use your experience to your advantage, and don't be afraid to speak out in class

 

edited to add- I went back and re-read your original post and for some reason I thought you were working as a trainer PT or something, so I'm sorry if any part of this post doesn't make sense in this context.

[aaronjw]

Thanks for your detailed reply!

 

The distance education I am doing is simply to get my grade 12 physics and chemistry since I had no science interest when I was in HS so I didn't take them but they are pre req's for my app,ication to York's Kin program. I will definitely not be doing any university level courses via distance.

 

Interesting your comments towards not trying to get it done faster as that was my exact thought process. Full load during the year + summer courses to try and get done in 3 years. I'll take your note as a cautionary tale and let me grades guide my workload towards additional courses of the norm.

 

One thing I feel will be to my advantage is my experience in the corporate world. No amount of experience in school can prepare you for that experience I have being responsible for millions of dollars in marketing budgets as well as sales acquisitions efforts to ensure revenue to keep the organizations I've worked for afloat lol

 

Also LOL at the kids not knowing what a 35 year old looks like bahahah

 

Thanks again for your thoughts!!

 

Oh, and yes I plan to stay with my partner. We've been together for over 13 years and she's my rock

Welcome to the forum!

 

I was a personal trainer before going back to school, but I have an endurance sports background- ultrarunner/adventure racer. I also found myself realizing (early in my fitness career) that I wanted to go much deeper into the body. It sounds like you're kind of at that point too.

 

Here's the best advice I can give you- pay attention to this forum and be a TRADITIONAL student, as much as you can. I know it's tempting to try to get it all done faster, work thrugh the summer, etc., but most schools are going to be looking at FULL-TIME years, which is your typical 5 full year courses, sept-april. It's great that you've signed up for the distance courses, but since you'll be doing them over the summer they won't really "count" for those schools looking at FT years. For the non-trads, you'll find that a lot of the things that traditional applicants take for granted (such as taking courses "corresponding to your year of study" like Western requires) are actually somewhat difficult to obtain and require some careful planning.

 

Officially you won't be penalized for your age, but there are ways that your age can subconsciously affect the people reviewing you as an applicant, especially in the interview. Because you're physically fit you probably don't LOOK like you're in your mid-30s, so that's a plus. Your colleagues in university won't have any idea about your age because they won't even really know what a 35-yr-old looks like in real life. I'm 31 and they usually peg me at 25-ish, not because I look that age but because that is the "right" age for someone to be in their classes.

 

One thing I am concerned with is that you might be incredibly bored in some of your courses, especially in the first year. I took a few courses in the kines field and found that it was really, really basic. Hang in there- it gets much more interesting. Maybe York will be different, I have no experience there

 

All this said- I hope I'm not sounding negative. Preventative health care is something that is often overlooked and I hope I won't be too swamped with work once I'm a physician to take the time to educate patients in this realm. I'm not sure if that's your take on the situation too.

 

-Don't procrastinate

-If you want to keep your partner, listen to her, and if you don't want to keep her then let her go now

-Be traditional and take 3 FT yrs of school (this will allow you to apply to as mny schools as possible)

-Keep up your extracurriculars, but remember, school is your JOB now, so treat it that way

-Make academic contacts and try your hand at research

-Use your experience to your advantage, and don't be afraid to speak out in class

 

edited to add- I went back and re-read your original post and for some reason I thought you were working as a trainer PT or something, so I'm sorry if any part of this post doesn't make sense in this context.

[thehumanmacbook]

^ I think Mac as well is a bit more non-traditional friendly. I only say a bit.

 

As a "kid" (just turned 21) I would have to say that there are a lot of us out there who are top of the line, but also many more who aren't. At the end you will have, I think a good mix in the classes. Avg age entry I think, is usually 24 in Ontario. More people have to apply twice to get in.

 

EDIT: Evidently Mac Med is not THAT trad friendly anymore...see posts below for more details.

[aaronjw]

Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it.

 

This and Kyla's advice is exactly what I want and need to hear. I'm an impatient by nature so hearing that I should take my time from those who've been there, done that really helps.

 

I have no illusions about the difficulty of getting I to med school which is why I want to have research and/or teaching options available to me as well. I know for a fact research would also be a high interest to me as well as teaching.

 

It's funny how life teaches you the things you are good at. I never used to think I was good at teaching and mentoring but through my coaching football and teaching people who reported to me in my career has led me to believe I could be good at this too.

 

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

Kyla covered it nicely. Went back at 28, repeated all of high school by distance (ADLC Alberta), completed undergrad in 3 years (just finished) spent 12 years in the real world. Here is my advice:

 

1) Mature can be a good thing or a bad thing. Good thing -> experience, bad thing -> thinking that experience will carry you or that it makes you special. Some of these "kids" may only be 24 but they have done ECs that are out of this world, that and there are a lot of us "oldies" with stuff on our resumes too.

 

2) It is all about the grades. At almost every school grades are the deciding factor, even with age and ECs and MCAT if you are not competitive in the grades department you may be applying more than once. Take your time and do the traditional route b/c summer classes don't count towards GPA.

 

3) Schools have age bias, whether they admit it or not. U of C is traditionally "oldies" friendly, U of A and McGill have a mature student application process. Look at the average age of admittance to get an idea.

 

4) Be traditional in the sense of having the "classic" checks in the boxes. There is a lot of debate about hospital volunteering but at the end of the day most people who interview will have some health care related volunteer experience. Research is big too, just b/c you are old doesn't mean you shouldn't be applying for the same summer studentships and scholarships as everyone else.

 

Here is the deal: average age of applicants is going up, numbers of applicants are going up, seats in class are not changing much. You are not only competing with some very bright and determined "kids", you also have some people with similar backgrounds as yours. Make yourself the best applicant you can be and GL with the journey.

[aaronjw]

Err apologies for typing errors - damn iPad autocorrect lol

[HBP]

You might also want to put a timeline on your goals...

 

You're 35 now, so if everything goes to plan you'll start medicine at 40 (note: everything doesn't always go to plan as a pre-med). 4 years of medical school, then residency. You're looking at 46 at the earliest... and older if you want to pursue some of your other dreams (endocrinology etc.).

 

I don't want to be discouraging, but this is the reality... and at this point, you'll likely be in debt, rather than preparing for retirement.

 

Any other ways you can pursue your medical dreams? Do you have to be a doctor? Have you looked into other options in the medical field?

[kylamonkey]

^ I think Mac as well is a bit more non-traditional friendly. I only say a bit.

 

I think this is a misconception- they used to be but I do not believe they are anymore. I think they may actually have the lowest average age of entry of all the anglophone schools? Maybe someone can correct me.

[aaronjw]

You might also want to put a timeline on your goals...

 

You're 35 now, so if everything goes to plan you'll start medicine at 40 (note: everything doesn't always go to plan as a pre-med). 4 years of medical school, then residency. You're looking at 46 at the earliest... and older if you want to pursue some of your other dreams (endocrinology etc.).

 

I don't want to be discouraging, but this is the reality... and at this point, you'll likely be in debt, rather than preparing for retirement.

 

Any other ways you can pursue your medical dreams? Do you have to be a doctor? Have you looked into other options in the medical field?

 

I know what the timelines are. I've spent the past 6 months talking to everyone that I could to make an informed decision about what I'm getting into.

 

Funny you mentioned endo since that is my intended specialty and right now finances aren't a worry. I have enough banked to technically see me through schooling for the next 8 years without having to work and that includes all living expenses.

 

I appreciate your comments and yes as I mentioned, research is a definite option for me.

[simpy]

I think this is a misconception- they used to be but I do not believe they are anymore. I think they may actually have the lowest average age of entry of all the anglophone schools? Maybe someone can correct me.

 

You're correct Kyla - Mac used to have a nontrad policy but they don't anymore. Their policy of placing as much weight as they do on GPA (and looking at a true unweighted cGPA) makes it pretty unfriendly for many nontrads.

 

I like HBP's idea of a timeline. School gets harder with age too. Others in your class will come straight from high school and everything is still fresh in their minds. You not only have to catch up to where they are, you have to beat many of them.

 

Being a mature student has a number of advantages. But it's also very hard - have a timeline and a backup plan if things don't work out. Above all, be realistic with your chances - if you get a 3.2 one year, reconsider your plan.

 

Above all, don't underestimate what you're facing. There are many, MANY premeds who would make excellent physicians - people who are smart, motivated, involved and haard-working - who will not get in in Canada. The process is often random and a crap shoot. Do your best, but be realistic.

[aaronjw]

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the time you took to reply!

 

Agreed about being realistic and am trying to do that. One step at a time

You're correct Kyla - Mac used to have a nontrad policy but they don't anymore. Their policy of placing as much weight as they do on GPA (and looking at a true unweighted cGPA) makes it pretty unfriendly for many nontrads.

 

I like HBP's idea of a timeline. School gets harder with age too. Others in your class will come straight from high school and everything is still fresh in their minds. You not only have to catch up to where they are, you have to beat many of them.

 

Being a mature student has a number of advantages. But it's also very hard - have a timeline and a backup plan if things don't work out. Above all, be realistic with your chances - if you get a 3.2 one year, reconsider your plan.

 

Above all, don't underestimate what you're facing. There are many, MANY premeds who would make excellent physicians - people who are smart, motivated, involved and haard-working - who will not get in in Canada. The process is often random and a crap shoot. Do your best, but be realistic.

[thehumanmacbook]

I think this is a misconception- they used to be but I do not believe they are anymore. I think they may actually have the lowest average age of entry of all the anglophone schools? Maybe someone can correct me.

 

CASPer takes away a LOT from GPA. I think that's pretty friendly considering the other 5 schools (other than NOSM's context points) don't have this sort of arrangement. I think that offers a good chance for individuals who have experience in the working world to really highlight that compared to the average UG student.

 

I think that's what I meant that it was a "bit" more friendly...

[thehumanmacbook]

Usually you are right on the money but for this one I neither agree nor disagree.

 

I bailed on applying specifically b/c of CASPer. 1) I can't type or sepll 2) There is no way I could track down the people I needed to to be references for my (best) answers 3) Experience is not always easy to convey I.E. a 21 year old who only hands out water on a gen med ward for 2 months might be able to write up the experience better than a former project manager with years in the field (I was not a project manager). In my opinion this tends to level things off.

 

I'm sure if I looked at it closer or put more effort into it these "problems" could have been overcome. I think the "oldschool" interview used to give us the best advantage specifically b/c it gave us the opportunity to go on for hours rather than these 8 min wam-bam-thank you mam style interviews that are fair for everyone (total BS I know), that is why I applied to Queens this year (jokes on me).

 

Thank you for the compliment I'm still a newb but I try.

 

I guess every medical school looks for quite different things...can't imagine what was going on in their heads when they made CASPer...I'm not a fan, but whatever. I too, prefer traditional interviews but MMI seems to be the new standard. Should read up some research papers on it...

 

I guess I shouldn't say that Mac is more "friendly" towards non-trads; that's somewhat inaccurate from the posts above.

 

Bottom line for OP: Apply to as many schools as you can, you never really know...

[aaronjw]

OP: Apply to as many schools as you can, you never really know...

 

Thanks, when the time comes in 4 years and if the GPA is there I'll definitely do so for all the Ontario schools

[kylamonkey]

I think the whole Mac thing is the result of what simpy alluded to- there USED to be a non-trad pathway at McMaster but there isn't anymore. As a result, there's this idea floating around that Mac is good for non-trads (I even remember hearing this rumour back in 2007-ish) when it isn't anymore.

 

To the OP- be very wary of these sorts of rumors, and look up all the admissions info for all the schools you're looking at. If you wind up posting your GPA from your previous degree (and breakdown by year) you might get more specific information, too.