Lunasly Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hello everyone, This is my first time on this forum. I have a question about the DAT carving section. I am not quite sure how it works, but I have heard that they give you a square piece of soap and a carving knife and you have to carve a picture. Is this true? If not could someone please explain it to me or point me in the right direction? I have also noticed that the CDA provides student a pack of 6 materials to study for the carving section. Is this just also some soap and a carving knife? Will 6 pieces of soap be enough? Thanks, Lunasly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aravis Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 On the actual DAT they give you a cylindrical piece of soap (84mm length, 16mm diameter), carving knife, pencil, sharpie marker, and a ruler. You have to carve the specific patterns that's illustrated by a few diagrams (top, bottom, side views). Personally, I went through 24 soaps and got a pretty decent carving score. The number of soaps you need to feel comfortable probably depends on the person. You can always order more from the CDA if you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adversary Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have also noticed that the CDA provides student a pack of 6 materials to study for the carving section. Is this just also some soap and a carving knife? Will 6 pieces of soap be enough? You don't automatically get them. You have to order and pay for them. I think a lot of people tend to carve more than 6 pieces. My friends and I avg around 20. Some people get away with a few either because the school they are applying to will not look at the carving score, they are really pre-meds, or they have a very strong talent in art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnesium Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 If you're applying to a school that actually looks at your carving score it's pretty ballsy to go into the DAT and have carved only 6 pieces (unless you are that good, which is possible). 2-4 packs of six is pretty normal. I went through 16 (6 that came with the kit +2 more packages) including the ones soaps that were used as demo soaps by some of the people who taught me some tricks. 3 packs is probably a good number to start with: if you're good by 12 then the last 6 are just practice...if not you have 6 more to improve with ...And if by the end of those you're still not comfortable you can always order more. The best advice I can offer WRT the carving is to find someone who wrote the DAT and scored high on carving (25+) to look at your soaps and give you some honest and objective feedback. They'll know what kinds of things to look for and they can give you some tricks and techniques to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupineworm Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Magnesium's right, finding someone who did well is the best thing to do. However, if you can't find someone like that, just buy one of the carving guides and you can still score really well although it may take more practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilGilGil Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hmm, I actually was about to post a very similar question. What I do not get, however, is when you receive the cylindrical soap, what are you exactly carving? Are you sculpting it into something else or are you drawing a design all over it? Also, would it be wise to ask a dentist for tips and tricks if you don't know anyone who wrote the DAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnesium Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hmm, I actually was about to post a very similar question. What I do not get, however, is when you receive the cylindrical soap, what are you exactly carving? Are you sculpting it into something else or are you drawing a design all over it?... You carve three sections of the soap (two ends and the middle) to match the drawings that they give you. You'll get a projection view of the final design (top, side, and bottom, plus both ends). The IQ Publications books do show you a 3-D version of what the final design should look like, but I can't remember if you're given this on the actual DAT (I want to say they don't...). If you do get the IQ book for practice, know that you will never have to do a hemisphere, cone, weird pointed triangle thing or a notch that's over 8mm deep (i.e. over half diameter of the cylinder) so don't bother practicing those features. You can be asked to do a shape (square or equilateral triangle) on one of the flat ends (as shown). Pardon the crappy sketch. A real pattern will also have dimensions for everything, and you are most definitely expected to accurately reproduce those dimensions. ...Also, would it be wise to ask a dentist for tips and tricks if you don't know anyone who wrote the DAT? That would depend heavily on your relationship with that dentist and how young they are (read: how recently they would've done the DAT) for them to be able to offer tips and tricks. I would generally err on the side of no for asking your dentist unless they're a family friend. Someone who is artistic or detail oriented could look at your carvings too. As long as you tell them what criteria to look for (flatness of surfaces, sharpness of corners and cut edges, accurate dimensions and feature orientation, symmetry, etc.) and ask them to be completely objective, then they can act as a decent substitute. You're also staring at an entire forum of people who have written the DAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilGilGil Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 You carve three sections of the soap (two ends and the middle) to match the drawings that they give you. You'll get a projection view of the final design (top, side, and bottom, plus both ends). The IQ Publications books do show you a 3-D version of what the final design should look like, but I can't remember if you're given this on the actual DAT (I want to say they don't...). If you do get the IQ book for practice, know that you will never have to do a hemisphere, cone, weird pointed triangle thing or a notch that's over 8mm deep (i.e. over half diameter of the cylinder) so don't bother practicing those features. You can be asked to do a shape (square or equilateral triangle) on one of the flat ends (as shown). Pardon the crappy sketch. A real pattern will also have dimensions for everything, and you are most definitely expected to accurately reproduce those dimensions. That would depend heavily on your relationship with that dentist and how young they are (read: how recently they would've done the DAT) for them to be able to offer tips and tricks. I would generally err on the side of no for asking your dentist unless they're a family friend. Someone who is artistic or detail oriented could look at your carvings too. As long as you tell them what criteria to look for (flatness of surfaces, sharpness of corners and cut edges, accurate dimensions and feature orientation, symmetry, etc.) and ask them to be completely objective, then they can act as a decent substitute. You're also staring at an entire forum of people who have written the DAT Thank you so much for the detailed response. I have been a long time member on the student doctor network and people are not usually as helpful. So will the shape that they ask you to carve always be the same or very similar to the one that you drew in your drawing? Also, I can't believe I didn't think of it, but this forum would be great for advice, too! One other question: Is it very difficult to get a 30 in carving or can anyone get there with enough practice? I am assuming these bars of soap which you order are very expensive Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprachiasmatic Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thank you so much for the detailed response. I have been a long time member on the student doctor network and people are not usually as helpful. So will the shape that they ask you to carve always be the same or very similar to the one that you drew in your drawing? Also, I can't believe I didn't think of it, but this forum would be great for advice, too! One other question: Is it very difficult to get a 30 in carving or can anyone get there with enough practice? I am assuming these bars of soap which you order are very expensive Thanks. It will definitely not be the same, though it will have some similar features, most likely. I practiced somewhere between 12-18 soaps for mine. I found the key was being VERY critical of myself on each soap (after 2 or so practice soaps), and striving for perfection. Perfectly straight lines, perfectly smooth surfaces. I scrutinized everything. I didn't really tolerate even the slightest flaws, and tried to improve with each soap. I got a 24, and to be honest my soap was quite bad on the actual exam. I got the one design I knew I would be rather uncomfortable with. It contained like 7 sloped edges and very few straight ones, and I like to take my time with the slope and do it last...but alas it wasn't an option here. So I think a 30 is certainly achievable; a few people do it every year, but to be honest it's going to be easier on some soap designs than others. If the design you get plays up your strengths, and you've practiced hard, you'll probably be able to get a near perfect score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilGilGil Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 It will definitely not be the same, though it will have some similar features, most likely. I practiced somewhere between 12-18 soaps for mine. I found the key was being VERY critical of myself on each soap (after 2 or so practice soaps), and striving for perfection. Perfectly straight lines, perfectly smooth surfaces. I scrutinized everything. I didn't really tolerate even the slightest flaws, and tried to improve with each soap. I got a 24, and to be honest my soap was quite bad on the actual exam. I got the one design I knew I would be rather uncomfortable with. It contained like 7 sloped edges and very few straight ones, and I like to take my time with the slope and do it last...but alas it wasn't an option here. So I think a 30 is certainly achievable; a few people do it every year, but to be honest it's going to be easier on some soap designs than others. If the design you get plays up your strengths, and you've practiced hard, you'll probably be able to get a near perfect score Thank you. So I checked the CDA and the kit is $65.00 and additional soap is $35.00. This sure is going to hurt the wallet, lol. Also just another quick question if anyone knows the answer. I have heard countless times and I have heard from committee members from medical schools that the undergrad university that you attend does not matter. However, I currently volunteer with a girl I know that told me her uncle (who is a long-time dentist) is also a committee member for UBC dental school. She told me during dinner a few months back, they were discussiong dental school admissions and he told her that he usually gives priority to students which are from SFU/UBC. I have known her for a couple months now and she seems like a trustworthy person, but I really can't be sure. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap_man99 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 usually its because they are from that province (are residents). Almost all schools have only a certain amount of OOP (out of province) students that they take-and that is a maximum. BC is notorious (IMO) for not accepting OOP students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilGilGil Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 usually its because they are from that province (are residents). Almost all schools have only a certain amount of OOP (out of province) students that they take-and that is a maximum. BC is notorious (IMO) for not accepting OOP students. Oh sorry. I meant that I do attend an undergraduate university in BC, but she said that because it is not SFU/UBC then I am at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emac2014 Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 If you're applying to a school that actually looks at your carving score it's pretty ballsy to go into the DAT and have carved only 6 pieces (unless you are that good, which is possible). 2-4 packs of six is pretty normal. I went through 16 (6 that came with the kit +2 more packages) including the ones soaps that were used as demo soaps by some of the people who taught me some tricks. 3 packs is probably a good number to start with: if you're good by 12 then the last 6 are just practice...if not you have 6 more to improve with ...And if by the end of those you're still not comfortable you can always order more. The best advice I can offer WRT the carving is to find someone who wrote the DAT and scored high on carving (25+) to look at your soaps and give you some honest and objective feedback. They'll know what kinds of things to look for and they can give you some tricks and techniques to try. ... I'm not so sure anyone could make a legitimate argument for more than 12 soaps unless you're an extremely uncoordinated person (in which case, are you sure a small motor skills dependant career is in the cards for you?). I find from myself and others that if you take it seriously, learn the techniques, you can do 1/2 without really caring (to get techniques down), 3/4 without worrying about time, just perfecting the thing (learning when to stop carving and how to avoid chipping), and 3/4 more under strict time constraints you'll find that you're all set (that's only around 9 soaps). Use the last 3 just to build confidence and make yourself amazing if you want (I personally used them to screw around with, try and carve a dog, throw at a wall, etc.). Space all that out over about 5 weeks and youre good. If you're uncoordinated and worried than maybe an extra pack but imo that's overkill. Remember you don't need a 30 on it, and with decent practice 30 is very attainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupineworm Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Remember you don't need a 30 on it, and with decent practice 30 is very attainable. You don't need a 30 but for lots of people, the carving is what balances out their weaker parts of the DAT. Since 30 is quite attainable with enough practice, it's probably best to just order as many soaps as you need to get that 30. For a lot of people, that's going to be more than 12 soaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnesium Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 ... I'm not so sure anyone could make a legitimate argument for more than 12 soaps unless you're an extremely uncoordinated person (in which case, are you sure a small motor skills dependant career is in the cards for you?). I find from myself and others that if you take it seriously, learn the techniques, you can do 1/2 without really caring (to get techniques down), 3/4 without worrying about time, just perfecting the thing (learning when to stop carving and how to avoid chipping), and 3/4 more under strict time constraints you'll find that you're all set (that's only around 9 soaps). Use the last 3 just to build confidence and make yourself amazing if you want (I personally used them to screw around with, try and carve a dog, throw at a wall, etc.). Space all that out over about 5 weeks and youre good. If you're uncoordinated and worried than maybe an extra pack but imo that's overkill. Remember you don't need a 30 on it, and with decent practice 30 is very attainable. Everyone will feel comfortable at a different level. Clearly emac is a master Boss with an art degree (Carving a dog? You, sir, are ridiculous). I'm kind of curious to know what you got on carving emacs. Care to share? If you're aiming to get into UBC, then an ok score to have when hoping for an interview would be at least a 20 as long as you're stronger in other categories (and as long as your PAT mark can pull up the average of the two) Emac is right that you don't need to get a 30 on the carving, but you do want to do well. If you're learning it completely on your own without any help from others then you may need more soaps to be able to hone the various techniques. Something else to think about is when you're planning on writing the DAT vs when you plan on applying. If you're writing the Nov DAT the year you're applying, then that's your only shot you have so it's better to do too many than too few. If you're writing it the Nov/Feb before you apply (or earlier) then maybe you can try starting with 12 and buy more if necessary. If you screw up on that one then you always have another chance to retry. That said, even if you are writing early there's no reason to not kill it the first time so why not order 18? Believe me when I say that applications in November are much less stressful if you already know your DAT scores are on par or better than admissions averages and don't have to re-write in Nov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnesium Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 How long (in weeks or months) should someone practice? I need to kill the dat to have a shot at canada. The problem is... I'm studying for other exams needed for my backup career (in case I opt out of USA which I probably will). So I'm trying to juggle studying for these other exams and haven't started studying for the DAT which I'll write in november. I'm also working full time. Totally a personal thing on how long you spend. I practiced for around 6ish weeks if I don't count the weeks that I skipped. I didn't actually keep track of when I did soaps, but this was the progression I used: 1. *Learn how to set up markings*, learn how to cut soap, take hours to try and make them really good, get "ok" at carving. 2. Start timing to see how long it takes to get to finished. Start cutting down your time until ~35 minutes to finish a "very good" carving 3. Restrict to exactly 30 minutes. Very critically evaluate soap after the 30 minutes. Put soap aside (to fix later) or fix whatever needs fixing to make it "perfect". Continue here until you're comfortable and can finish in 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilGilGil Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 If we do not have anyone to learn the techniques from, is there a book or a guide which is recommended to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aravis Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 If we do not have anyone to learn the techniques from, is there a book or a guide which is recommended to read? The carving book from IQ publications was pretty good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emac2014 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Everyone will feel comfortable at a different level. Clearly emac is a master Boss with an art degree (Carving a dog? You, sir, are ridiculous). I'm kind of curious to know what you got on carving emacs. Care to share? If you're aiming to get into UBC, then an ok score to have when hoping for an interview would be at least a 20 as long as you're stronger in other categories (and as long as your PAT mark can pull up the average of the two) Emac is right that you don't need to get a 30 on the carving, but you do want to do well. If you're learning it completely on your own without any help from others then you may need more soaps to be able to hone the various techniques. Something else to think about is when you're planning on writing the DAT vs when you plan on applying. If you're writing the Nov DAT the year you're applying, then that's your only shot you have so it's better to do too many than too few. If you're writing it the Nov/Feb before you apply (or earlier) then maybe you can try starting with 12 and buy more if necessary. If you screw up on that one then you always have another chance to retry. That said, even if you are writing early there's no reason to not kill it the first time so why not order 18? Believe me when I say that applications in November are much less stressful if you already know your DAT scores are on par or better than admissions averages and don't have to re-write in Nov. Haha the dog was sort of a joke, and if I ever tried that it would be a mess. I'm not artsy at all, and have never carved anything before in my life. I got a 23 (my lowest mark of all the sections) and honestly didn't stress about it in the test. Was only planning on ontario schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilGilGil Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 The carving book from IQ publications was pretty good for me. Ah perfect, thanks! I have another question: How helpful are study materials for the DAT which are geared more towards the MCAT? For example: Berkeley Review books, ExamKrackers, Princeton Review, etc. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.rious Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I used princeton review and it was perfectly fine. But you need to polish up on taxonomy, and ecology because that's not in Princeton review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visceral Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Carving just seems to be another hoop dental applicants have to jump through. The person who posted and said that if you need more than 12 soaps to do well then perhaps you should reconsider your career is completely out of line. Carving has little to no bearing on what kind of dentist you will be clinically. It is a random skill that they ask you to pick up, they might as well ask you to learn how to knit. Ask a good dentist you know to carve a piece of soap with a scalpel to prove their worth and you'll get the idea. My advice is carve enough to the point where you feel comfortable, be that 6 or 20. You're doing this for the DAT solely so you can get into the profession of your choice. Otherwise, carving means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emac2014 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Carving just seems to be another hoop dental applicants have to jump through. The person who posted and said that if you need more than 12 soaps to do well then perhaps you should reconsider your career is completely out of line. Carving has little to no bearing on what kind of dentist you will be clinically. It is a random skill that they ask you to pick up, they might as well ask you to learn how to knit. Ask a good dentist you know to carve a piece of soap with a scalpel to prove their worth and you'll get the idea. My advice is carve enough to the point where you feel comfortable, be that 6 or 20. You're doing this for the DAT solely so you can get into the profession of your choice. Otherwise, carving means nothing. Haha just to be clear I wasn't saying carving was essential to dentistry, but it is actually a decent measure of dexterity and spatial sense in my opinion and that of the writers of the dat as well as many schools across north america. it is not like asking you to knit. if it was, knitting would be a component of the exam. what I'm saying is that if you need 40 tries to complete a pretty simple test of a skill that is basic to the profession it says something. obvs this'll make people mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostracized Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I will say this - I actually believe that my experience in dental school would translate to better skill in soap carving. That said, my carving score was 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnadee Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I will say this - I actually believe that my experience in dental school would translate to better skill in soap carving. That said, my carving score was 4. finally someone giving the pre-dents hope! yes, carving does not correlate with performance in dental school, i believe there is a recent (2007?) study on this... however, as ostracized mentioned, it probably works the other way round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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