ganish Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 This thread needs to end. I get too irritated reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 How does your beef with the MMI have anything to do with Mac being a "joke of a med school" overall? More like you find one of their admissions tools to be lacking lol, hyperbole much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proton Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think my favourite part of this thread has been the statement that "the patient is the middle man" - merely ancillary. Why, you don't even NEED patients to practice medicine! lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinko333 Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 does anyone else get the impression that obama's story about his "friend's mother" is really about his own mother doing CASPer for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickserve Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 OP, you do have some valid points, though they are diminished through your harsh tone. For the sake of argument let's say that you are correct that 1)the patient is merely a biological system and doctor's social and communication skills aren't important, and that 2) McMaster's MMI is horribly flawed and a worse way of evaluation than traditional panel interviews. The fact is that no Canadian medical schools agree with point 1 (as evidenced by CANMEDS), and would not be very satisfied with a candidate that opined such views (i.e. you). This will make it difficult for you to get accepted to medical schools in this country. Your only chance to get in would be if you could go through an interview process that is horribly flawed and not good at discerning good candidates (as defined by the med school) from the bad ones. Assuming your 2 points are correct, That leaves you with one good shot at getting into med school in this country... a school with an evaluation process so bad that it won't discover your real views and values, which strongly clash with those of the school itself. I think you know which school I am referring to by now..... Welcome to Micky Master Medical School!! We hope you enjoy your stay!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 ^QED Kick. QED. Best self-perpetuating argument I've seen in a while ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proton Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think I love you, Kick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrack Obama Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Last-last post: 1) Medicine is not an art. To argue this is like arguing that watching TV is a sport. Here is the definition of "art" on wikipedia: Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. As you can see, having a conversation with a patient does not fit this definition. You could say that metaphorically, a conversation is an art. But if we expand the definition of art to such degree, it would only be fair to call other activities, like playing football or doing office work, an art as well. 2) The funny thing is, despite my views, I'm probably going to get into medical school anyway. Why? Because I know exactly what the medical school committies want to hear. All I have to do is walk into the interview, regurgitate society's predominant views towards medicine and doctors, and walk out with an acceptance letter. Lying in interviews is just too easy. And is explains why all interviews, MMI or otherwise, are crap for selecting "good" people (if such a type of person actually exists - there is no good and bad in a world where everyone is motivated by self-interest). The MMI is worse than a traditional view for the simple reason that it is easier to lie to the same person for 5 minutes than for 60 minutes. 3) The great thing about McMaster doctors is that they are quite "interesting" people. That being that each one of them has something a little "off" about them, compared to the average person. Probably because they admit so many people who would otherwise be hanging out in a local starbucks all day, typing on their Apple iMac laptop, listening to indie alternative music, as an unemployed writer. F*ck the system, bro! GOODBYE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithril Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 You can also self-diagnose yourself on Wikipedia, too. In fact, **** medicine! I'm gonna be a Wikipediologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harstur Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Last-last post: 1) Medicine is not an art. To argue this is like arguing that watching TV is a sport. Here is the definition of "art" on wikipedia: As you can see, having a conversation with a patient does not fit this definition. You could say that metaphorically, a conversation is an art. But if we expand the definition of art to such degree, it would only be fair to call other activities, like playing football or doing office work, an art as well. 2) The funny thing is, despite my views, I'm probably going to get into medical school anyway. Why? Because I know exactly what the medical school committies want to hear. All I have to do is walk into the interview, regurgitate society's predominant views towards medicine and doctors, and walk out with an acceptance letter. Lying in interviews is just too easy. And is explains why all interviews, MMI or otherwise, are crap for selecting "good" people (if such a type of person actually exists - there is no good and bad in a world where everyone is motivated by self-interest). The MMI is worse than a traditional view for the simple reason that it is easier to lie to the same person for 5 minutes than for 60 minutes. 3) The great thing about McMaster doctors is that they are quite "interesting" people. That being that each one of them has something a little "off" about them, compared to the average person. Probably because they admit so many people who would otherwise be hanging out in a local starbucks all day, typing on their Apple iMac laptop, listening to indie alternative music, as an unemployed writer. F*ck the system, bro! GOODBYE! 1) Denial 2) Arrogance 3) Jealousy = future failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igeorgex Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think OP might be a skilled legilimens (for all the Harry potter fans out there) because he's read my mind and discovered my failed dreams to be a waifish, 20 something writer in brooklyn, who hangs out at coffee shops typing away on my MacBook and submitting articles to the new yorker!! Thank god Mac med is soooooo easy to get into as a backup option to my failed first plan, as outlined above. Let's see if that's truly the OP's last word. I'm past caring that we are feeding this troll. This is as good as that guy who asked for advice a few weeks ago about going into medicine from engineering, studying for mcat in high school and wanting to help people from his war torn country but only if he could make $$$$$ by practicing in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usermed Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hi everyone, I have recently read the postings regarding this thread, and really am shocked at the “rebuttals” from the various members of premed101. Really, a lot of replies are plain mean and naive. As I'm reading these posts, it really is surprising that such commentaries would even arise from future physicians practicing on peoples one day. For instance, “Denial, Arrogance, Jealousy = future failure” by Harstur. To me this comment is inappropriate and unprofessional and immature. This reply to me shows lack of respect for this person’s opinions. It is even supportive of “Barrack Obama”’s arguments that sometimes medical candidates aren’t the best chosen peoples. To a certain degree, I am starting to see the trend that medicine is moving away from an “art” to more of a business model. We are no longer in an era where medicine is practiced from pure passion, but more from financial gains as well (job security, etc). For instance, a lot of physicians would tell you that there are greater financial gains of using a PA vs an NP. Are “Barracks Obama”’s posts somewhat offensive? Yes. So What? Are you as a future physician going to treat a psychotic pt’s with the same level of respect? No? Why? Because you’ll have the responsibility to put on the “game face” that “Barrack Obama”s talking about, the one that got you your acceptance into medical school and society. Anyway, the post is starting to sound too bitter. The argument continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkwhy Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 You can also self-diagnose yourself on Wikipedia, too. In fact, **** medicine! I'm gonna be a Wikipediologist. LOL! It's true. You can learn anything and everything you want to without ever going to school. The only downside is you won't be recognized OR paid regardless of how much you know. (Going off tangent) Sucks. I wish there was a new system that said: Here, I'll give you 4 years to learn whatever you want, however you want, wherever you want. At the end of the 4 years I'll test you. If you pass, you get a degree. <--That would be awesome. A man can only dream.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 The independant learning degree at Waterloo (i think its at Waterloo) is like that. LOL! It's true. You can learn anything and everything you want to without ever going to school. The only downside is you won't be recognized OR paid regardless of how much you know. (Going off tangent) Sucks. I wish there was a new system that said: Here, I'll give you 4 years to learn whatever you want, however you want, wherever you want. At the end of the 4 years I'll test you. If you pass, you get a degree. <--That would be awesome. A man can only dream.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkwhy Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 The independant learning degree at Waterloo (i think its at Waterloo) is like that. There should be TV commercials. I was not informed! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 1) Denial 2) Arrogance 3) Jealousy = future failure. If you don't have anything more constructive to say you really shouldn't judge that barrack obama kid (not the president, the OP of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingStar Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 1) Denial 2) Arrogance 3) Jealousy = future failure. Easy there... I understand you're protective of your med school and all, but come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shin Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 reading the first post displeased me and hit close to home since i chose to go mac over another school i was accepted to. but reading this thread further, i see there is a bit more to the OP's ideas than at first glance. and i do find myself agreeing with some things that he's (assuming it's a he not a she) said. I'm not so arrogant to think that doctor's have all the answers and merely need the skill and intellect to cure everyone they meet. I know that medicine is an art as well as a science. I see true value in empathy and communication. however, in regards to the process, i agree it has flaws. I myself, being limited in creativity and my own ways of thinking, am unable to think of many improvements to the system. but i think there's validity in the claim that the motivation to become a doctor is self-driven. selfish ambition is what drives most of us to become doctors (at least i can relate to this). and for that, i at least respect the OP's honesty. in being honest with myself, i know that i have selfish motivations when it comes to being a doctor. But i also know that it's these same motivations that will also help me become a good doctor. A doctor who has completely altruistic motivations and continues to poor his or herself into medicine and patients, will eventually burn out. or maybe that's just my own justification for my immoral ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harstur Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 If you don't have anything more constructive to say you really shouldn't judge that barrack obama kid (not the president, the OP of course). Easy there... I understand you're protective of your med school and all, but come on. It has nothing to do with my medschool. He is clearly trolling you guys, no need to get all touchy. I just pointed out the traits he's exhibited in his post. Do you really think a successful doctor embodies those qualities? If he keeps it up, he will set himself up for failure. But, revisiting my last post, I do see your point...I apologize if it came across as too harsh, but the OP needs to learn his lessons before he's ready for a career in medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aKGDH Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 It'd be ironic if this guy only gets accepted at Mac and ends up going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shin Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 It'd be ironic if this guy only gets accepted at Mac and ends up going there. ..and poetic if he ends up loving it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelid Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Barack Obama Mutha****a! Barack Obama! I'm The President Of Hittin That Ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamP Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I only read a couple of these posts, I think I've had a bit of a turnaround on how I view the interview process. I think a lot of hoopla gets made around the fact that people can fake people skills, fake empathy etc. and come of as a lot more polished then they are in just a 45 minute interview. I think that is true to a large extent, but I've also realized that if applicants over-inflate their people skills during the interview, it's not really the end of the world. I mean sure the main advice people give for interviews is "be yourself" but there is also obviously a need to be "your best self" in situations like that. And i guess more fundamentally, if someone is a douche in real life and they can act like an emathetic and nice person for 45 minutes, that's probably the extent they would need to show for most clinical encounters at any single time. Obviously you need to be a professional in those situations, but its ok to act differently when the clinical encounter is over. I think sometimes premeds and new medstudents often believe doctors are looking for these saintly beings and anything less then that won't be accepted. What they really want is someone who can be professional when the "cameras are on", not to say you have free reign to act as you please when they're off, but I mean it only takes a couple real clinical experinces to see the 180 change in demenour doctors take when they are in with a patient, and when they are in the lounge, or the gas mask is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamone Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I have recently read the postings regarding this thread, and really am shocked at the “rebuttals” from the various members of premed101. Really, a lot of replies are plain mean and naive. I agree that the OP's posts are inflammatory, but I also agree with Usermed's statement here. I felt that some of the posts here were unnecessarily disparaging or pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ophtho_gunner Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Thankfully I did not have to go to Mac ... cuz it shucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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