Too many options / not sure which is best

[EngrGuy]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm trying to decide what the next step should be in my application process. I'm currently in Halifax so I'd love to be able to go to Dalhousie; although I'm open to really any med school that will take me. I've done lots of reading around these boards (example http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51760) and calling of schools to try and find out the best thing but I'm still not certain which path to take.

 

I'm graduating from a masters in engineering in December and would like to apply for 2013. I've been done my undergrad since 2006 and have worked full time (along with doing my masters) since then. I'd say my biggest hurdle is my GPA from my undergrad. I was much younger then and really had no priorities in mind; so as a result I have poor marks. I started at a college in Ontario and then transferred to Lakehead University through a bridge program. So I really only HAVE those 2 years of undergrad university marks (as most / all school won't count college for obvious reasons).

 

Despite undergrad I've done pretty good in my masters; however that undergrad GPA is still the basis of all applications.

 

2004FW GPA = 75.25 average; or if I convert the courses to OMSAS grades first then average it's 3.06 GPA.

2005FW GPA = 78.25 average; or .. ".. " .. it's a 3.32 GPA.

 

Based on this alone Dalhousie won't even look at my application since they require 3.3 on your 2 best (or in my case my only 2) years in undergrad. Even though my grad degree is 3.8... I haven't written my MCATs yet; but even if I do amazing they won't even look at my application.

 

So now I'm not sure which step to take. I've called them and they said if you do a year after your undergrad (full time 5 x 6.0) it can be counted towards your GPA. But what does that limit itself too? If I started my PhD and took 5 full time courses; does that count? According to their website only ONE grad degree will be used.

 

So this leaves me thinking I should just do an extra year - but I'm not sure if they'd count that. I might as well do a 2nd undergrad.

 

However it seems like I'd learn a lot more about research fields if I took a PhD instead of another 2 years of undergrad courses... And also are all undergrads looked at the same? I'm currently an Electrical Engineer; so I was thinking if I do take a 2nd undergrad; I could take Biological Engineering. However if they're considered the same; why wouldn't I just take something much easier like a BA in Pshyc or something of the sort?

 

I also realize most threads say things like "well if you don't have the grades maybe you shouldn't try to be an MD"; however I feel like the person who took that undergrad and the person I am today (6 years later) are totally different. I got into engineering work purely for the tech industry and money that would follow. Working in that incredibly hollow corporate world has really made me realize a few things about where my priorities lie and what I want to do with my life. I realize my poor undergrad grades are entirely my fault; however now I need to find my way around that to accomplish what I'd like to do.

 

Any advice; comments or questions?

 

Thanks,

J

[Nasket]

Hey J,

 

Don't worry. There are many of us who have been/are on the same boat as you. Like any other field, if you want to pursue it bad enough, there is a way to get it.

 

Looking at your stats, and seeing that you really do want to do medicine, I would suggest taking an extra 2 years. Most schools in Canada do look at a minimum of 2 years and by getting into a 2 year program, you can even get an honours degree which will be sufficient at most schools.

 

A PhD may be worth pursuing if you are genuinely interested in the field that you are in, but it's many more years you are committing to something you may not want to end up in. Plus, after you are done a PhD, the advantage that you get still falls short of the advantage that you get from pursuing a 2nd undergrad.

 

Hope that helped. Good luck with your studies. You can find many success stories on this forum for people that have pursued a 2nd undergrad, so we all hope to be those success stories in due course.

[EngrGuy]

Hey Nasket;

 

Thanks, that makes me feel better. To clarify; do you mean take a 2 year degree / or just take 2 years of courses and see if they will add honors to your existing degree? In this case I doubt the could do the later since I attended a different university. As for which classes to take in school; can they be anything? Arts / Sciences / Engineering etc...?

 

Thanks again,

J

[jojoluvsu2]

Any classes will do.

 

There are a few universities which offer a 2 year 2nd undergrad, if you qualify for enough transfer credits. I'd try for that route, there are a lot of schools which will look at 2 years of courses that aren't part of a degree (Dal, Ottawa, Queens), but if you can flip it into a degree as well, you open up to UWO, NOSM, maybe others?

 

Personally that's where I'd start my search, contact a few universities to see if they have a 2 year degree for people who already have a degree. If you're game for online courses, Athabasca is definitely a good option. They're fairly liberal with their transfer credits, and there's a ton of second degree options.

[EngrGuy]

hmm good Idea; I'll check out Athabasca courses... Now if I take a 2nd degree; does it have to be full time studies (5FCE)? I'm currently working full time and it would be pretty tough to stop working for 2 years in hopes that I get into med school in 4 years :S What if it's 4 courses per semester online / would they not count that?

 

Thank again for your help guys,

J

[jojoluvsu2]

You'd have to look at the individual schools, but a lot of the schools that don't require a full course load will also look at all years of study, not your best/most recent 2 years.

 

I'm working full time while doing full time courses at Athabasca. The online thing gives you a lot of flexibility in terms of speed of study, and self scheduling exams is amazing. Mind you I work 12 hour shifts, so I tend to have 3 or 4 full days off a week, but on the days that I'm working no school work gets done. I'm not sure how a schedule will work if you're a 9-5 MF'er.

[future_doc]

No experience here, but would imagine that if you don't do a full course load, they would not be able to assess your ability to withstand/cope with the rigours of med school. Obviously, it is easier to attain higher grades with a less than full course load.

[EngrGuy]

yah that makes sense... jojoluvsu2; which program are you taking? (just curious)..

 

Also; does it matter when I start? I'd like to start in Jan but then it's wouldn't be a full Sept-April term. And most schools don't count summer... so would that just be a waste?

[Nasket]

I would recommend starting in a September term, so that your full course load can be set between September-April. If you start in January, and do it through teh summer, I think it would be a waste at most schools that look at 2nd undergrads.

[EngrGuy]

I just called Dal; and they said that as long as it's full time they would consider Jan-Apr and Sept-Dec as a full term; but not the courses you would take in the summer / spring terms.

[jojoluvsu2]

yah that makes sense... jojoluvsu2; which program are you taking? (just curious)..

 

Also; does it matter when I start? I'd like to start in Jan but then it's wouldn't be a full Sept-April term. And most schools don't count summer... so would that just be a waste?

 

I'm doing a general Arts & Science. I wanted to take the human biology, but was told it was too close to my original degree (Biology from UofGuelph). Arts and Science is a really good option, you only need 6 credits (one full year equivalent) in social science, one in science, and one in humanities. Lots of flexibility, lots of options as far as which courses you want to take.

 

I would start in September. Even if Dal says you can start in Jan, I don't know if other schools will like it. It will probably just save a whole lot of headache to wait until September. Plus, if you are thinking of the Athabasca route, you need to pick courses by the 10th of December to start in January.

 

Just a side note, if you do decide to go with Athabasca, courses are $100 each more expensive if you're out of province. So I use my brother's Calgary address and then get him to send me the course materials. Saves me $500 a semester!

[EngrGuy]

Ah nice; I was looking at the human biology one too. Did you just pick one and try to get transfer credits or did you see which option gave you the most transfer credits?

[jojoluvsu2]

Their system of transferring credits INTO Athabasca is a little different, at least from my experience. I had wanted to manipulate the number of credits I received so I could take a few more courses, but they said that the transfer credits for students looking to take a second degree are set as a block. So for me, I got the 48 set block of transfer credits, leaving 42 left for the 90 credit Gen. A&S. Then separately from that, they gave me a list of 15 courses (45 credits) I couldn't take, presumably because I had already taken their equivalent in my original degree (I couldn't take their intro chem, bio, anatomy and physiology etc. because I had already done those).

 

I'm really not sure how it would work if your second degree is in an entirely different field from your first. The human science major would require courses with lab component, and I'm not sure if you'd be exempt from those. I've heard horror stories of people having to fly to Edmonton to do a 2 hour lab. I'm having a great time with the A&S, and I'd recommend it to anyone. You can take all the science courses you'd like that you think will help you with MCATs or other apps, but you aren't forced into any one course.

 

It's $100 to do a transfer credit evaluation, and they'll tell you how many transfer credits you'd get, what will still be required if you wanted to go into Human biology or another program. It takes about 8 weeks for them to get around to actually doing it, so don't leave things until the last minute like I did! I actually just got my report the other day, after already registering and completing a bunch of courses. I was starting to panic, thinking that maybe all the courses I had just completed wouldn't count!

[EngrGuy]

Nice; thanks for the advice! I'll definitely look into Athabasca. Do you find it hard to do the online classes? I work for a BC based company so I work BC hours (noon - 8pm) so I was thinking of taking a few courses locally and the rest online. Would it still count for 5FCE if I take 3 at Dalhousie and 2 at Athabasca?

 

J

[jojoluvsu2]

I love the online courses, but I'm trying to take courses I'm already rather strong in. I'm taking all the Math courses I can, and avoiding psychology courses. I'm doing that not only to try to get the best marks I can, but also because it is a little more difficult to get extra help. The tutors (TAs) in charge of the courses are generally very reachable by email, but that is no substitute for an actual one on one session with a TA where you can ask questions in person.

 

I think a full course load is a full course load, even if it's pieced together from a few different universities. Though I'd contact Dal and whichever other schools you might think of applying to just to make sure.

 

The only other consideration to make if you're thinking of doing half Athabasca and half elsewhere is that you won't actually get a second UG degree unless you then transfer those credits done at Dal back to Athabasca to count as part of your second degree. I don't think that's an issue, just something to probably double check when deciding your program plan.

 

Then again, Dal has no restrictions on actually completing the second degree (neither does Ottawa, Queens...) so not completing your second degree won't affect your apps to those schools, as long as you have a full course load between all the courses you're taking. NOSM does require you to complete the second UG (ie. you can only apply with that second UG in its final year, so that it will be complete at the time of graduation).

 

Just make sure you contact all the schools you may ever think of applying to, just to make sure that you're not spending all this money and in the end being ineligible to apply.

[ETCH]

Dalhousie

http://admissions.medicine.dal.ca/faqs.htm

I did not take a full course load (5 credits) in my final year. Does that make me ineligible?

For the purposes of applying to medicine, FULL course load means 5 full credits per academic year in the years you indicate to be assessed. A full course load is expected as it most closely reflects the expectations in the medical program should you be accepted. If you have a legitimate and compelling reason for not completing a full course load in any one year we ask that you outline and submit supporting documentation at the time you submit your application. Review of your extenuating circumstances will only be completed once an application has been received by the Admissions and Student Affairs office.

[ETCH]

just bear in mind that distance education will not be considered for admission to schools like Ottawa.

and many schools in Ontario considering recent years would only consider gpa earned during full-time (diff defination of 'full-time' according to diff schools though).

what you study does not matter to most Canadian schools, it's about the gpa. gpa. gpa.

many of us on this forum (especially non-trad) are on the same boat!

[EngrGuy]

just bear in mind that distance education will not be considered for admission to schools like Ottawa.

 

Really? Even if it's 5 full courses per term? How come?

[ETCH]

*Yet bear in mind that every school has diff requirements, strict requirements.

 

 

Ottawa

http://www.med.uottawa.ca/Students/MD/Admissions/eng/faq.html

 

 

32. Can I qualify for admission through full-time studies completed by distance education?

No, since the spirit of the full-time studies requirement is to be able to assess and compare how candidates succeed in a full-time course load and to predict how the candidates will perform and cope with the rigorous demand of the medical program.

 

 

6. I have already graduated with a four years honours degree. Will my application be looked at more favourably?

No. Since we require three years of full-time studies as general application eligibility requirements, we always weigh the most recent three years completed by a candidate.

 

 

28. Do you give preference to different undergraduate degrees?

There is no special weight or preference to any particular baccalaureate degree. The degree of difficulty of the program is not assessed.

 

 

23. Can I qualify for admission with part-time studies?

Only full-time studies will qualify you for admission.

 

 

30. Do you accept summer courses?

Summer courses are accepted for the credit value but the grades obtained will not count in the calculation of the wgpa. Prerequisites courses can be taken during summer sessions but not during the summer session immediately preceding admission in medicine.

[EngrGuy]

Wow that crazy... I wonder which other schools do that. I'm not sure what options are out there for non-trads with families to support other then distance education...

 

The biggest challenge are the labs. I can probably schedule the lectures in a way that I'd be able to do them all in the morning; but the labs are 3 hours a week on top of the classwork and that makes it nearly impossible (without working 9pm - 5 am heh).

[aaronjw]

just bear in mind that distance education will not be considered for admission to schools like Ottawa.

and many schools in Ontario considering recent years would only consider gpa earned during full-time (diff defination of 'full-time' according to diff schools though).

what you study does not matter to most Canadian schools, it's about the gpa. gpa. gpa.

many of us on this forum (especially non-trad) are on the same boat!

 

What about one course to supplement thus ensuring a full course load? Curious about that one.