GPA 3.7>=HARD??

[Guest Lorne PArk]

Hi there.,

 

I'm entering undergrad at U of T Sept.

 

I want to know if getting 3.7> is hard job or not. I've heard that ya gotta get over 3.7 to go to MED school..

is it true??

 

In high school, getting over 3.7 was easy though/...^^;;

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Well it all depends on where you plan on going to medical school. I notice that you are attending UofT. If you want a crack there, you are going to need 3.8+ to be considered for an interview as an undergrad. Queens and Western usually need a 3.60, and Mac is a crapshoot with a 3.0 requirement, although undegrads need much higher.

 

Ottawa (for out of Ottawa applicants) is about 3.8-3.9.

 

So, a 3.7 would leave you in the dark at UofT and Ottawa. I would think that a 3.8-3.9 GPA would be ideal to be considered around the board.

 

 

As for the difficulty of obtaining that GPA, you need to look at the major. It is much harder to do so in computer engineering than in biology. Most people claim their high school marks fall 10-15%, although I have found this to be a little too extreme. Most people I know fell about 5% or so, so if your highschool markds are high enough, and you pick your courses wisely, getting good marks is not that hard if you are dedicated.

[Guest JSS02]

As someone mentioned earlier, it depends on the program to some extent. But even in life sci, don't expect to slack off and get a 3.7. The average in most of these courses is around a C+, and most these people probably had at least an A- or higher average in high school, to give you an idea how the "standards" change... however, if you do work hard, there's no reason to believe that it would be difficult to get a 3.7.

[Guest gucio93]

I resent the reference to Mac as a crapshoot needing only a 3.0 average. Please be a little bit more respectful. Although it is true that this is the minimum requirement, it does not mean that those who have a 3.0 average get in easily (whether they are undergrad or grad). To get in with a 3.0 average you must have an otherwise amazing bio. Most people average around 3.7 if I'm not mistaken.

[Guest Akane200]

This is fairly subjective. 3.7 for first year life sciences is not hard. It just depends on whether you are willing to put in the work and effort.

 

Is the material difficult? Depends on the courses you take/choose. So choose carefully. Don't take courses that are more difficult if you don't have to (that's just my opinion about surviving on the St. George campus). Take courses that don't have too much subjective evaluation of the material. It's always easier to get over 90 in math, but much more difficult to get over 90 in English because it's a little more subjective in marking.

 

It is rumoured that on average, marks dropped 10-15%. Medcompsci say it's around 5% (perhaps that's true for scarborough campus). My friends from my high school dropped on average of about 10-15% (plus, it also depends on which high school you came from). I dropped about 5%, but I had a very high average going in to begin with, so I really couldn't complain about my first year marks at all.

 

Just work hard and do your best. I think that 3.7 is fully attainable in first year for many (ESPECIALLY in the life sciences courses where there is little if any subjective evaluation), but you need much more than that. It doesn't get much easier than first year, so take advantage of those high marks that you can potentially get.

[Guest Ian Wong]

Yeah,

 

Don't go by the minimum requirements. They are notoriously unreliable if that threshold is much lower than any of the other medical schools.

 

For example, at UBC, the minimum GPA required is a 70% to apply. I think in my class of 120, the lowest mark I've heard of coming in was a 74%, and then the next being a 76%. You might technically think of yourself as being in the running if you've met the minimum requirements for GPA, but the reality is that the rest of your application must be absolutely superlative to make up for your GPA deficit.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

I don't want to seem rude, but if you re-read my above post about Mac it clearly says that undergrads need much higher than 3.0. I termed it a crapshoot (a word many have used on this board before) since it places so much emphasis on those 15 questions (50% for interview purposes), which is about as subjective as it can get considering that the applications are marked by first year meds!

[Guest Carse]

I think that it is almost impossible to predict how much a person's marks will change from high school to university. Unfortunately there is no magic formula, because how people do depends on a great number of variables. The biggest of which is the tremendous transition in lifestyle that happens when starting university.

 

I know of people who rocked high school with averages in the high 80's/ low 90's, then hit the university scene and absolutely bombed (started to party pretty hard, didn't adjust to the increasing scholastic demands, etc.). On the flip-side, I know of people who did very average in high school, but with a combination of maturing/ finding something they like were able to excel in their university studies.

 

I think that the best thing to do in getting great marks is to make sure that you are doing courses that you like. My first two years were a time of lower marks for me, but they substantially increased over the last two years. This is likely due to the fact that in your last couplpe of years your courses will focus on your desired area of interests (major/ minor). Although a physiology major, I chose a minor in psychology, rather than in an a more "scientific" type of field such as biochem/ organic/ etc.

 

The bottom line: if you've been successful in school in the past, just find whatever it is you like to do, keep working hard, and you will likely be just fine.....

[Guest strider2004]

Here's a different way of looking at it. A 3.7 is quite subjective depending on your school. I think I did better in first year university than high school. In university, aim to be in the top 5 or top 10 of EVERY class that you take. It doesn't matter if you're in a class of 200 or 2000. Sounds extreme? Yeah probably. But coming in with that attitude will assure that you work very hard.

Before I went to university I was given the advice to work super hard in the first semestre to set a standard for the rest of my undergrad career. It was only after that(and after I exceeded the legal drinking age) that I was able to have more fun.

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

I don't think anyone is bound by the legal drinking age...lol..

 

I think your advice however is quite good, if not a little too competative. Instead of trying to finish in the top 5/10 people in the class, why not do what I did and try to always finish at a 4.0? That way you are competeting only against yourself.

[Guest strider2004]

I always obeyed the legal drinking laws!(until now)

 

As for the top 5, it's just to make yourself known, I guess. If you're looking for a reference from a prof in a big class then a good way to get noticed is by having high marks. There are other ways too like asking lots of (intelligent) questions.

 

And you're right, competing against other people only works so far. Eventually it gets tiring. I once thought of something when I was stressed in first year. When you're on top, you can only experience satisfaction or disappointment, never happiness. That sucked. Maybe take MEDCOMPSCI's advice and just try to do as well as yo ucan.

[Guest snowpea]

I agree with Medcompsci. Set goals based on your own abilities, not others. You'll get more satisfaction with meeting or exceeding your own standard then beating some random person in your class. Plus, you don't want to end up as one of those annoying ppl who bug others for their GPA. :lol I mean, there is one guy I knew from highschool who keeps bugging me for my avg, and we aren't even in the same falculty! University is too big for you to base your marks on someone else.

 

Regarding how much your avg will drop from entering college really depends on you. How hard are you willing to work? How are you are learning independently (which you will need todo for sure)? I know of smart ppl who just weren't cut out for university. It all depends on you.

[Guest YongQ]

<font color="#005858">Nothing new to add here. In undergrad I found it really discouraging hearing people talk about "this guy who got 100 in this course" and "this girl who gets a 98 average" - the thing is, it just isn't relevant. University isn't like high school, and the sooner pre-meds realize this, the less pressure they will put on themselves. Everybody has different programs, courses, courseloads, and vastly different circumstances under which they're studying. There really isn't any way to compare yourself to anyone else, the only thing you can do is try your personal best and leave the rest of the burden to the adcoms. Personally, I always go into a course thinking that I can get 100 in it, though it invariably turns out to be much lower (hey, I'm allowed to dream right?). Adopting this frame of mind totally helped me to prevent other peoples' standards from being imposed on me, and eventually I came to not care about things like the class distribution or class average. In fact, I don't even know why those profs show those kinds of stats. They just make the high-scoring students feel more superior and everybody else feel like morons, it's a harsh practice.</font>

[Guest Chirashi]

Hi Lorne,

 

Here I offer...

 

Seven Principles for GPA Success as a UofT Life Sci Student

(based on my personal experience)

 

1. Figure out the UofT 'system'.

2. Practice developing an arsenal of 'smart' study skills (working smart, not just hard).

3. Make studying and learning your #1 priority.

4. Attend all lectures and tutorials, and actively pay attention (this is quality studying time!).

5. Talk to as many people as you can about their experiences, and take what works for you.

6. Truly believe in your capability to achieve a 4.0+ GPA, and take appropriate, concrete action every day to make this a reality.

7. Relax, and find ways to make the process fun!

 

The rigorous application of these principles, along with a fierce spirit of determination, will set you well on your way to getting top marks. I can't overemphasize my belief that doing well as a life sci student at UofT is mostly a process of 'figuring out the system'. The sooner you learn the university ropes, and start working study strategies that capitalize on the properties of this system, the sooner you will enjoy GPA prosperity.

 

Good luck, and remember to keep a balanced perspective on university life. True happiness isn't found by getting into medical school, just as getting into medical school isn't simply about a stellar GPA. As the adage goes, 'life is a journey, not a destination.' Find happiness along the way.

 

Michael

[Guest liz]

On a loathsome rant about GPAs:

They stink.

 

If your school uses a normal numerical percent system, you will see why. Sure, 80-84% at some schools is equivalent to 3.70 grade points. But the grade point average, being non-linear, is specifically designed to pull you down for all the variation in your marks. For instance, I have an 83%, which, eyeballing to make a direct conversion from percent average to GPA should give a GPA of around 3.83 (on a linear scale, that is); however, on converting all of my marks to GPs and then averaging THAT, I end up with 3.57.

 

GPAs in general, stink. They're unfair because, in measuring variability, you're automatically going to biased against students studying at semestered schools (vs. students at schools with a year-long term), since you're going to have more variation with an increased number of less significant marks. For instance, let's say a student was lazy first semester of first year, even until, say November, and ended up with a 56%. That's a GPA of around ~1.0, assuming all of his courses were around the same mark (of course, if they varied, that would just bring it even lower!!). Then, let's say he smartened up after christmas, and managed to pull off an average of 92%. That would work out to something very close to 4.0, depending, again, on the variability. So, the average of these two semesters is 74%, which converts straight to a GP of 3.0. However, taking the ACTUAL grade point average of those marks would give him a GPA more like 2.5, which is a significant difference, especially if you're considering med school. Needless to say, the same student at a non-semestered school might end up with marks around 74% for the full year for all classes, and thus a GPA much closer to 3.0. But, you say, that idea only applies to the confusion of first year? Not so.. What about illness? Roommate/partner troubles? A death in the family? Again, that will significantly impair your GPA, more so at a semestered school than a non-...

 

Let's unite. Ban the GPA.

[Guest giantcactuar]

I never realized this until you mentioned it. Its ridiculous that variability be taken into account in the gpa. i myself have been screwed in a few courses for stupid reasons and this will lower my gpa as a result. well, count me among your supporters on the quest for a gpa ban. thanks.