Get a job or go abroad?

[*stargazer*]

Hi everyone, I'm an Alberta resident getting ready to finish a graduate degree this May from the USA and I'm starting to examine next steps and determine my course of action for admission in next year's cycle.

 

I'm thinking of one of two options right now: get a job in the public health sector (maybe move to NS to qualify under Dal's IP formula) or go abroad to work in international health to improve my ECs and gain experience. I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

I think going abroad for medical school is too risky, especially if I want to go into a competitive residency later on. USA is certainly an option, but one that is compromised by my low MCAT scores and low cumulative GPA. I have a strong preference to stay in Canada, because of lower tuition and because I really like living there compared to my experience in the USA. I would like to take a leadership role in clinical and public health research once my medical career is in full swing, but am hesitant to apply to MD/PhD programs due to almost being 27 now.

 

I will need an improved MCAT for UWO which looks at the most recent writing. I applied to Dal, Queens and U of T this past cycle. Rejected from Dal pre-interview.

 

My cGPA for Alberta schools is just under the cutoffs, with the calculation for U of A being 3.24 after this year and 3.17 for U of C (due to differences in GPA calculation).

 

Here's the facts and numbers:

 

Undergrad 1 (Science, U of A)

Y1 3.06, Y2 2.37, Y3 1.75 (illness), Y4 2.04

 

ECs in leadership (campus organization), clinical experience (volunteering in different hospital wards over 4 years), canvassing (for heart and stroke, and lung associations over 3 years)

 

Undergrad 2 (Honours Kinesiology, Dalhousie)

Y1 3.82 (OMSAS), 3.78 (OMSAS, 1 extra half-year course)

Honours Research

Regional Conference Presentations

 

MCAT 2009 31M, BS11, PS10, V10

 

First author National Conference Presentation of Honours Thesis

 

Worked as Kinesiologist with elderly and musculoskeletal injuries, observership in cardiac rehab program

MCAT 2010 31Q, BS11, PS10, V10

 

Worked for the government as clerk in aboriginal consultations, assistant director for a play

MCAT 2011 28Q, BS 9, PS 9, V10

 

Course-based Masters heavy on epidemiology (Health Science, Johns Hopkins SPH), Graduating 2012

Certificate in Risk Sci and Public Policy

Year to date 3.81

 

Clinical Research

First author Abstract to be published in proceedings of International Society of Heart and Lung Transplantation this year.

Will be submitting paper of above abstract to their journal

Working on several other projects in cardiac surgery research

[thehumanmacbook]

First of all, give yourself a pat on the back; those are all very impressive accomplishments and demonstrate your persistance.

 

If you're an Alberta applicant, do the IP rules benefit you in any way, esp with the GPA? Did you apply to Calg?

[*stargazer*]

I didn't apply to Calgary this year because of their change to a more complicated reference system (advocacy, managing and collaboration references) and changes to their minimum GPA. After dropping my worst year, my cGPA is 3.17, which is less than the 3.2 minimum required GPA. Last year, I had applied to U of A under their special consideration category, but my request was denied. I do not qualify under their minimum requirements either. As far as I know, Calgary does not have a special consideration category for me to apply to.

[RN-MD]

I dont know if my suggestion will make a difference, but you get very few natural breaks in life- where you dont have a huge amount of stuff on your plate. I would jump on the opporunity to travel to somewhere and get involved in some really incredilble EC's.

 

Be proud of everything you have done, it sounds like you are really working towards your dreams.

 

Maybe taking some time away from the application rat race will give you a chance to reboot so that you can hit that MCAT full force when you come back

[Slashsev01]

Go into bussiness and make 10x more than doctors i say!

[Nasket]

I dont know if my suggestion will make a difference, but you get very few natural breaks in life- where you dont have a huge amount of stuff on your plate. I would jump on the opporunity to travel to somewhere and get involved in some really incredilble EC's.

 

Be proud of everything you have done, it sounds like you are really working towards your dreams.

 

Maybe taking some time away from the application rat race will give you a chance to reboot so that you can hit that MCAT full force when you come back

 

Well said, RN-MD. I completely agree. You have a stellar record in terms of your much-recovered GPA in your 2nd ugrad and MPH at JHU. I would say these are great assets to give you a great opportunities to work abroad.

 

These are some points I used while deciding to work abroad in India last year for a public health organization (with just an undergrad degree in BSc, but I have added the edits for you)

 

1) These opportunities will diminish as we do more schooling, because you will be forced to start working right after to pay bills, support family, etc.

 

2) An MPH from JHU can give you amazing opportunities abroad and you would be able to get involved in much needed global causes. For instance, WHO, CDC (for high profile agencies); or modest initiatives that you would be able to find around the world.

 

3) The inspiration to go around the world as you feel is an option will not come by all the time. I say take this inspiration to do it because delaying school for a year is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

4) Make some money during this time to pay bills.

 

5) Make yourself extremely competitive for med schools like UofT medicine where a large part of your application (as a grad student) by telling a story about your overseas experience.

 

6) You will still have great shots at UWO, Queen's, UofT, Saskatchewan (possibly), Dalhousie regardless as I doubt the pool will become that much more competitive in a year.

[bloh]

I disagree with the above two suggestions. No amount of ECs is going to make you get over the mandatory minimum GPA requirements. Furthermore, you were already denied special considerations from UofA with some pretty unique and oustanding ECs already. It is highly improbable for them to reconsider you with overseas work experience. Quite frankly, it just isn't impressive anymore because a lot of people do it. I find that some people have given you dishonest advice. You don't have "great shots at UWO, Queen's, UofT, Saskatchewan (possibly), Dalhousie"; at best, they are exceedingly rare outlying shots.

 

People on this forum are heavily slanted towards a younger age group (<22) and when you're in that age range, you have a much different view of life and going abroad seems like an awesome idea because you have a lot of time. Given your history, I'd say you are easily 25+ and you likely have a different view on life. When your cohort starts getting married, having kids, buying real estate, enjoying their weekends and looking forward to their flexible 3-4 week yearly vacations it has the effect of making you seriously consider your goals and plans in life. I'm in this situation right now and to be honest it bothers me a lot, and it's a lot easier on me because I already am in medical school.

 

At this point you should ask yourself if you really want medicine. And if you do, go to the Caribbean or Ireland/Australia. There's no sense spending a couple of years overseas if you truly and honestly want to practice medicine because there's no guarantee going that route.

 

The second alternative be to consider becoming IP for Dalhousie. Unfortunately, I don't know the details of that (how long it would take you, would they consider you if you were to become IP, etc...) but your post hints that there's a chance there.

[simpy]

People on this forum are heavily slanted towards a younger age group (<22) and when you're in that age range, you have a much different view of life and going abroad seems like an awesome idea because you have a lot of time. Given your history, I'd say you are easily 25+ and you likely have a different view on life. When your cohort starts getting married, having kids, buying real estate, enjoying their weekends and looking forward to their flexible 3-4 week yearly vacations it has the effect of making you seriously consider your goals and plans in life. I'm in this situation right now and to be honest it bothers me a lot, and it's a lot easier on me because I already am in medical school.

 

Going to completely second bloh here (I started the second degree route when I was 26 and was accepted at 29). Based on your stats, you actually have a decent chance of landing a Queen's interview, but I don't think you have much of a chance elsewhere.

 

I don't think there is much more you could do to improve your chances academically or through extracurriculars. Your best bet is to work and earn some money, and consider rewriting the MCAT (again). This is probably the route I'd go.

 

Realistically, if you can make the cutoffs at Western and Queen's you have a good chance of getting into meds.

[Nasket]

My point to the OP wasn't to go somewhere out of Canada to improve EC's and I never ONCE said that.

 

The only thing I meant to say was that opportunities or the inspiration to do international work do not come by as you turn older (at least I do not think so)

OP has a great shot at Western. His second undergrad (Honours) had a 3.78 and 3.74 which meets the GPA reqs.

 

I never forced him to agree with me, which is why I called them "pros" as to why I chose doing international work.

 

Additionally, I did not recommend delaying entry into medical school. This was a mere suggestion during the 1 year waiting period from Fall 2012 till entry 2013.

[simpy]

OP has a great shot at Western. His second undergrad (Honours) had a 3.78 and 3.74 which meets the GPA reqs.

 

OP does not meet Western's historical MCAT cuts, however. They would have a decent shot at Queen's but that's probably it, unless they can improve their MCAT.

[Nasket]

OP does not meet Western's historical MCAT cuts, however. They would have a decent shot at Queen's but that's probably it, unless they can improve their MCAT.

 

I certainly agree, Simpy. Sorry for the miscommunication. I assumed that the OP would rewrite the MCATs regardless to increase his/her chances across the board.

[Guest BluePin]

I am also an older applicant with similar bad old degree / good recent degree history to yourself.

 

I can't answer your question for you, but I'll throw a few things out there:

 

1) Put some effort into both paths you are considering-- check domestic job opportunities, apply for positions, do the same for international. If you don't put effort into both areas, you won't have the chance to make a real decision.

 

2) Choose whichever option seems like a better opportunity or gets you more excited.

 

3) You can always change your mind: if you choose to go to northern Thailand to work for an NGO but hate it, you can come home an do something else. Commit to sticking out whatever choice you make for 6-12 months, do a good job, but leave it open to move in a different direction.

 

4) With some exceptions, I have found that as a general principle in life, it is usually easier to move backward than forward. So if you have an interesting and unusual opportunity, take it. For the most part, you can usually return to a similar life position as you had before.

 

5) It is better to regret what you have done than what you haven't.

 

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Two things jump out at me application-wise: If you decide to re-write the MCAT, really put some effort into preparation! Your variable scores over the years suggest someone who is slacking off in their preparation, perhaps assuming that your overall educational background will carry you. Also, I believe that for unusual applicants with a variable academic history, the art of preparing a good application is a huge factor. It isn't what you have done, it is how well you can present it on paper. Make sure to get help and feedback with this aspect.

 

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EC's

 

I'm going to go on a little rant about EC's as your statement about "improving your EC's" reflects an attitude common on this forum that I disagree with.

 

EC's are extra-curriculars: EVERYTHING that you do outside of your academic curriculum. In other words, this is your LIFE. Your scholastics should be a relatively small (albeit periodically time consuming), compartmentalized segment of your life. If you try to have a cool, interesting, engaging life... you will have "good EC's" and a pretty satisfying existence. If you try to collect activities to put on your application like kids collecting baseball cards, it is going to be pretty dissatisfying if your list of activities doesn't land you in med school.

 

27 isn't old. Good luck.

[*stargazer*]

I appreciate the valuable insights and encouragement that you all have provided. I've held jobs and enjoyed travelling once a month on average to a new place in my leisure time; I will be going to various countries around the world on an upcoming trip after graduation this May. I've compensated for the lack of intellectual engagement in past work positions through increased initiative in on-the-job learning while making the most of my time at the workplace, be it through taking added volunteer responsibilities or maximizing flex/vacation benefits. I've done the 'having fun while working' thing and found it less than fulfilling, which is partly why I'm still chasing my dreams of medicine, which is a much more demanding career.

 

I value what you are saying with regard to keeping options open; it is better to be able to turn down opportunities in hand than to be forced into a course of action due to a lack of planning. With that in mind, I have decided to do the following prior to making any decisions:

 

1. Apply for jobs, both domestic and international (try to get IP in Nova Scotia)

2. Apply for international funded internships

3. Take my trip in June

4. Re-write the MCAT in August (note that I did put forth a consistent effort, with AAMC Practice scores in the mid- to high 30s before I scored the recent 28... I'm not sure what happened. Either way, I need new practice materials.)

5. Work on improving my application

 

BluePin, with regard to your rant about ECs - I agree that the race to add formal ECs for CV padding is unfortunate and can sometimes work against the applicant. I certainly value every experience that I have for its contribution to my education. I think my issue may simply be that I need to package my informal experiences better for a more effective presentation on my applications.

 

My goal is to open up Western and Dal as viable options with an outside shot at U of T and USask. I have received an interview with Queens this cycle, so it should be a good learning experience. Still waiting on U of T.

[Guest BluePin]

I have received an interview with Queens this cycle, so it should be a good learning experience.

 

Dude, sick. It's not going to be a valuable learning experience, you are going to get IN.

 

I just got a rejection from Queens. I'm a firm believer in the Louis Pasteur quote "chance favors the prepared mind." I tried to prep well for my Dal interview back in November. These interviews are a big deal and may well dictate the outcome of at least the next few years, if not longer.

 

For what it is worth, here's what I did:

 

Reading List

Doing Right

Privileged Presence

The Ethical Canary

Something on Health Care in Canada if you aren't totally up on how the system work (I wasn't).

Maybe a bit of medical "fun" reading... I like Atul Gwande & Abraham Vergeshe (he was recently mentioned in the queens dean blog)

Read up on the school itself.

How would you move Mount Fuji... book on Microsoft's interviewing techniques, a fun read and a good introduction to the idea that sometimes what they are looking for and what they are actually asking may be different.

 

Practice MMI Q's

There is a sticky on this forum from "FutureDoc" where you can download materials. I had a look at most / all of the material.

Practiced with current med students / residents / docs / lawyers (good for seeing multiple sides of an issue)

 

Practice Regular Interviews

I was out of practice with "standard" interviews, so did some mocks with experienced HR-types and spent some time considering my anwsers to "standard" questions.

 

I was pretty diligent with all of this, made notes, developed strategy, practiced lots. For me, "winging it" was not an appropriate approach. Personally, I think "just be yourself" is really bad advice. Be your prepared, professional self.

 

Anyway, just anonymous typing on the internet... hope it's of some use.

 

You're going to get in.

[Nasket]

BluePin, what you said was great and if you don't mind, I will use some of those resources that you have provided? I haven't applied this cycle since I am in my first year of my Master's of Public Health, but look forward to using that advice.

 

Stargazer, congratulations on landing an interview at Queen's...I knew you would get an opportunity this round with all your perseverance and experience. Whatever ends up happening this round due to the high degree of certainty in these matter, it is nice to see that you are pursuing quite the adventures

 

Best of luck to both of you

[Real Beef]

EC's are extra-curriculars: EVERYTHING that you do outside of your academic curriculum. In other words, this is your LIFE. Your scholastics should be a relatively small (albeit periodically time consuming), compartmentalized segment of your life. If you try to have a cool, interesting, engaging life... you will have "good EC's" and a pretty satisfying existence. If you try to collect activities to put on your application like kids collecting baseball cards, it is going to be pretty dissatisfying if your list of activities doesn't land you in med school.

 

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