Need some advice...

[Guest Paris21]

Hi,

 

I will be in 4th year science from the fall, and I must say honestly, that my grades in the last 3 years are absoutely horrible. I had some hard time adjusting to university life, and I also didn't find an effective way to study until recently. My average from years 1-3 is a 64%. Now thinking realistically, I have started to look at different career options (other than being a doctor), but most schools require a certain average to get in (which I don't quite have). I'm thinking of taking a 5th year, to bump up this average. I don't really know if this is worth it or not. I don't know if I should stay an extra year, or if I should just graduate at the end of 4th year and go back for a second bachelor's degree.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Paris

[Guest jake]

Sincerely speaking, you have slim to no chance, with that average. You need an average at least in the 80's to be a bit competitive. People will tell you dont give up , keep on trying, and will give you false hope that if you keep trying, then perhaps one day you will get in. Unfortunately, listening to such people will only make you waste your time, money and energy applying to medical school. There are other things to life than just going to medical school. I sincerely advise you to consider other career options. Adding an extra year, just for the sake of getting in meds is a waste and will be just elongating an inevitable result. The sooner you realize this the better it will be.

 

 

Just for the records, let me also tell you that there are extreme cases with people in 70's getting in. But this again is very very very very very rare! If i were you, I will not waste my time with such odds. This would be false hope.

 

I might sound pessimistic, but I am trying to be as sincere as I possibly can be. You can listen to me or the optimistic fool - the choice is yours.

 

Jake

UBC med 05

[Guest Anon]

Obviously, a 64% average in your first 3 years will make it a lot harder for you to get in. If you do decide to continue pursuing a career in medicine, you should have a good idea of whether you can improve you marks by how you do after part (maybe half) of 4th year is over. Most schools pretty much require an 80 average (some need even higher... especially if you're applying from out of province) for an applicant to have a good chance. There are always exceptions, but these people must have something else in their application that really stands out. If you can get a solid 80+ average (3.65 GPA or higher, I'd say), then it might be worth continuing in 5th year. After all, there are schools (e.g. Western in Ontario) that only count your best previous year, plus the year you apply in. Queen's only counts the previous 2 years if they'll allow you to make their cutoff GPA of 3.57. If you continue with an average in the 60s though, what makes you think that doing another degree (for instance) would get you the marks required? Make sure you think about it from a practical point of view too. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

[Guest Ian Wong]

Hi Paris,

 

I think the about two posters have really given you some sincere replies. Here's my attempt and a little action plan if I were in your shoes.

 

1) You need to identify the medical schools in your home province. As a general rule, you are most likely to be accepted to a med school in your home-province (out-of-province students generally need to meet more stringent cutoffs).

 

2) Visit their websites (accessible through a link at the top of each med school's forum here), and find out the algorithm they use to evaluate GPA. For example, UBC looks at all four years, and so applying here would probably be futile, as any good marks you earned in your fourth year would be over-shadowed by your 64% average in the first three years.

 

3) Figure out if any of your home province schools use a GPA scheme that you could use to your advantage by taking an additional 1-2 years. (eg. med schools that only look at your best two years, etc. UBC's weighting scheme would make it disadvantageous to you.)

 

4) Realistically see yourself after completing two more years of undergrad, and then getting rejected, and asking yourself if you would be happy.

 

 

If you were sincerely going to try for med school, I think you need to go through the above four steps first. The sad fact is that with your GPA, getting into a Canadian med school is going to be ridiculously difficult. Just looking at your average for the first three years, even if you were to get 90% in all of your courses from now on, your overall GPA after four years would be 70.5%, and after five years your overall GPA would be 74.4%.

 

These numbers are really too low to gain you admission into med school unless the rest of your transcript and background experiences are completely superlative. Even then, if you don't make the GPA cut-off for a given school, your application will still be rejected.

 

As a result, I think you might want to look into some other career possibilities, while realistically considering what factors make you interested in a medical career, and whether you can find those aspects in another profession.

 

As to starting a second Bachelor's degree, I really would advise against it, unless you were doing it to retrain in a completely different area in which you expected to get a job. Right now, you have no guarantee that the second Bachelor's degree will go any better than the first, and if you were to do that, that will be 8 years total without a job before you even apply to medical school, which is a further 4 years.

 

I have a friend at UVic who did his first degree while trying to get into medicine. He later realised that medicine wasn't right for him, and is now completing a Bachelor's in Computer Science, with a goal to getting a job in that area, and not to re-apply to med school. That's about the only situation where I would recommend going back for a second Bachelor's degree.

 

Medical school isn't everything. At the end of the day, when it comes right down to it, it's only a job. What you do the rest of the day really determines your friendships, relationships, and general happiness. I'd hate to see you sacrifice even more time on a goal that is distant at best, and downright impossible at worst, when you could use that time to find and do something else that will make you just as happy.

 

Best of luck!

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest Akane200]

I know lots of people want to get into medicine and become a doctor for many reasons. Those who get in are usually either excellent at things they have done (which is the way it should be), or they have all the right connections (which is not be fair, but hey, I guess that's life).

 

But there is something I want to understand about people who study the sciences in their undergrad, and didn't perform very well and are still pursuing medicine (excluding people who went out to the real world to work, with good experience and highly commendable achievements and came back to med school etc.). With low averages, you must be aware that you are not in a competitive position even in your own university; what makes you think you can handle the material, workload and responsibility of medical school?

 

If for example, you have consistently been getting "c"s in the life science courses, what makes you think that you will do well and still become a good doctor after you get into medical school? I know everything isn't about marks, but there still needs to be a good understanding of the core material in order to be able to apply the knowledge to daily practice. It isn't "cook book" medicine that we are taught.

 

I don't understand, because I always thought people would like to do something that they were good at. Not just be the occupation that they want (I mean, what good is it if you become a computer consultant that can't program?). If you're not good at something, you might find your career choice more taxing than rewarding.

[Guest YongQ]

Paris21, if your heart's set out for medicine and you're only in undergrad, your chances are by no means zero! That said, everybody above is right, your average is too low for any school to consider you. But many schools in Canada, including UT and UBC, give special consideration to students completing their graduate degrees - looking more for publications, grants held, and general experiences rather than numbers. If you're interested in research or don't know if you are, spending the extra 3 years after undergrad to get a Master's isn't a bad option. Whatever path you choose, however, do something you think is worthwhile for its own sake. Pursuing a grad degree just to get into med school will make you miserable, but if you can approach the experience as constructively as possible, you might even find you want an MDPhD, which one grad student I know did.

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Speaking honestly, not everyone can be a doctor. If they let everyone into medicine, then we would basically become the USA in terms of health care. That being said, pulling 60's in core science classes is something of a little concern. If you look at a first year med curriculum, you will see anatomny, Biochem, etc. a lof of science courses. Most of your classmates will have at least 80s if not 90s in these courses. It will be VERY hard for you to keep upto the level that is required and also maintain good standing.

 

If you really want to be a doctor and nothing else, then whatever advice we give you is useless; you will keep re-applying until you get in or run out-of money.

 

My advice would be to look into other careers that may interest you, and if still want to try medicine, do another major or a master in a field that would be a good back-up should you not get into med school.

[Guest Akane200]

I might be wrong because I really don't know, but don't you need at least a B+ average in your undergrad studies to qualify for graduate studies?

[Guest MEDCOMPSCI]

Acutally I believe it is a B- (3.0) at UofT, (their med cut-off is 3.60), but of course you probably need a B+ (just like you need a 3.80 for meds) to be selected.

[Guest YongQ]

I thought the B cutoff only applies to 12 or so senior-level credits you took in undergrad. Paris21 I would check this out online (www.grad.ubc.ca if you're at UBC). I thought the hardest requirement to meet when entering grad studies is having a supervisor who'll take you!

[Guest anon]

I have a slightly different take than most of the replies. I agree with them that your current average is too low and I also think that Ian's 4 points make sense. However, the impression I get from most people is that they are telling you to forget it. This is where I disagree. I know someone who is currently doing her residency who didn't do very well in her undergrad program. As you wrote, it took her awhile to figure out the right way to study. She knew she couldn't get into medicine with her marks so she went back and took nursing. She did much better with this degree and was accepted into medical school (although it did take her a couple of tries). My point is that if this truly what you want, you can make it happen with some work (you know the cliche where there's a will there's a way). Don't let people dissuade you if this is what you think you are meant to do. However, it will take more work on your part and if you're not sure this is the direction you want to go in perhaps you should just take some time to think about it. Travel, volunteer, or take a class in something you've always wanted to do (ie guitar, photography, creative writing, etc.). This can be an opportunity for you. If you find your still drawn to medicine then take appropriate action but you may also find something else that piques your interest even more. Good-luck to you and don't give up!

[Guest A]

I also know someone who ended up doing a second degree before entering med school. Also, many people go through grad studies. There are options available. Cheers.