Guest clinicalchief Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I'd like somebody to clarify some concerns I have about the "academic reference." I will be applying in 2004 and I haven't really gotten to know any professors that have taught me a class very well. Especially because most classes I have taken so far have large numbers of students, in turn the professors are overly busy and it seems hard to spend time with them. My questions are: Does the academic reference have to be by somebody who's class you took? or can it be from somebody you worked for? Is it uncommon/ad/disadvantageuos to have a letter from a TA or a lab technician? What is the AdCom looking for in an academic reference, when they can judge your academic ability by Average/MCAT? I have no prob finding a strong personal reference, but this one I'm a little concerned about. Thanks in advance for any help! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Hi there, It might be useful for you to start becoming more acquainted with your science professors if you can, most especially if you are planning to apply to some US schools. (Many US schools require at least a couple of reference letters from science professors.) Do your professors hold office hours? If so, and if the class is one that interests you, or for which you have some burning questions, why don't you make a regular habit of showing up for those office hours. Often, few students do, so it is a good opportunity to spend some time face to face with your professor. As to the purpose of the academic letters, I don't know what admissions committees look for. However, from a couple of my own academic reference letters (to which I've been privy by the professors) they've commented on the regular academic fare, e.g., class standing, intellectual abilities, etc., as well as how I worked with and got along with my peers and academic staff, leadership ability (with examples), etc. Does that help? Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blinknoodle Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I'm only familiar with Ontario med schools, so I'm not certain what you mean by academic references specifically. I know that some grad schools also want letters from academic references and told me that even though I worked with a faculty member for 4 summers, that that wouldn't count since she didn't teach me a course. You might want to check into the specific school. For my academic references, I have been able to take courses where I had lots of contact with my profs. I'm not sure if your school offers the same thing, but are you able to take any independent study courses or inquiry/problem-based learning courses? Typically an independent study course is supervised by a faculty member and you could meet up every week or so. You could definitely have a great time in a course like this. I have also had courses which required group work and regular meetings with my prof. Since we also communicate online, our prof is just like one of our group members since they can see how we're progressing. Another option would be to see whether the TA or lab tech could help write a letter for the supervisor you may not know as well. This way they could include more personal details about yourself. -blinknoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I used a Honours Thesis Lab (and summer research work) supervisor as an academic supervisor. I think that's appropriate, as in such a one-on-one setting they actually get to know you. Additionally, at many/most universities the classes get much smaller in 3rd and 4th year. Many of my 3rd year classes were 10 student seminars. That's a pretty good scenario for getting reference letters. If your classes are larger in 3rd and 4th year. . . yikes! How much are you paying? Yes, the adcoms already do have a good gauge on your academic abilities with your GPA and MCAT. Having a prof write that you're studious won't hurt, but commenting on your interpersonal skills and work ethic might be better. . . That's also why it's nice to mix up the reference letters between profs and extracurricular people (ie coaches, volunteer coordinators, long-standing family friends.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clinicalchief Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Thanks for the advice guys! I'm starting to get some better ideas about what I should be doing. UWOMED2005: I am going to be working with a prof this summer (June - Aug) who will also be my honours supervisor for September. However I haven't taken any of his classes yet. Was this a similar situation that you were in? I know that strong references don't only depend on how long a person knows you, but do you think that working with him over the summer, and then asking him for a reference for October is an appropriate length of time? Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I never took a class with my honours supervisor. Don't worry about that. And as for not having worked him long enough, that's about how long I worked with my honours advisor before his letter. By working with your thesis advisor this summer (btw is it one on one or buffered by grad students?) you'll have much closer contact than anyone who gets their Biochem 201 class prof (who saw the applicant only in the context of 95 other students and only for 3 hours a week) to write a reference letter, even if the prof has only known you for for a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clinicalchief Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 It seems that I will be working with the prof himself. One of the reasons I approached him was because he has a reputation of working very closely with all his students, so it will be great if it works out like that! Your analogy makes alot of sense - I presume there will be alot of folks asking reputable science professors for letters just b/c they were in the class, so I'm glad my situation will be different. So thats my plan. Thanks alot for your help, it's alot of weight off my shoulders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Yeah, that's good. That's the problem with working with a professors that are TOO accomplished in research: 'Dr. X' often hoards of grad students and paid lab assistants, little time, and as a result any students who 'works with Dr. X' is in reality working with Dr. X's Master's student. I worked with a mid-level guy (just a couple of nature papers an j physiology, only 1-2 grad students) and it was great. I not only reported directly to him, but had time to discuss career options, the realities of a career in research, non-academic stuff, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Hi there, One letter that I found really valuable was that from my organic chemistry prof. He sees hundreds of students annually, knows that his course is required for medical school and so could tailor the reference into that context fairly easily. (Cheekily, he used to like saying, "Well, I could write you a good letter, a bad letter, or one that works"!!) Also, not only was there the lecture component, but also, the lab component, so he could comment on both work aspects. Lastly, he was quite easy to get to know as organic chemistry material tends to warrant lots of questions if you're keeping up with your lectures on a weekly basis, so there seemed to be ample opportunity to go in during office hours and pick his brain. Good luck with your letters, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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