foreign grads and Carms

[Guest extrachromasome]

Has there been any talk of opening the first round of Carms to foreign grads?

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

In response to your question, here is some information that may be of interest to you from Murray Urowitz, the University of Toronto, Faculty of Medicine Associate Dean in Postgraduate Medical Education:

 

“What an eye-grabbing headline on Saturday's front page: For Sale: Prized Positions At Canada's Medical Schools (Nov. 1, A1). For Ontario medical schools, the premise of the headline is false. Worse yet, you repeat this canard in your editorial on Nov. 3 (Credentials In Limbo).

 

Canadian physicians with international credentials are not denied spaces in our programs because foreign governments sponsor some of their physicians to train here. At the University of Toronto, we have capacity to accept 30 to 40 trainees sponsored by other countries, as well as our full share of Canadians who have trained abroad. It should be a source of pride that so many other nations send their best and brightest doctors to this country for postgraduate training.

 

My colleagues and I agree that more needs to be done to open doors for internationally-trained medical graduates in Canada. This loss of human potential is unacceptable, given the doctor shortage. That is why academic leaders have lobbied policy-makers for more assessment and retraining programs. By next year, there will be 150 residency positions open to international medical graduates across Ontario, a six-fold increase over four years. Even with the new positions, we shall still be able to train many well-qualified physicians for other nations. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of Canadian traditions of outreach and capacity-building for the global community.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest UWOMED2005]

This is a very very complicated issue, and many of the developments have been recent and are still in a state of flux.

 

Keep in mind the provinces all have subtle differences. For years, Ontario has had a separate stream of residency spots geared for international med grads. In the other provinces, until the last few years, ANY student (incl canadian born) graduates of ANY school outside Canada was barred from entering until the second round of CaRMS, when many of the choice spots were gone.

 

That was until the last few (I think 2) years. Things have changed a wee bit and stuff is up in the air.

 

First off, as of the last two years CANADIAN born graduates of LCME accredited (ie NORTH AMERICAN, ie US schools, ie Hopkins or Hardvard or U Michigan or Baylor) schools can now get into the first round without problem. Last year I think was the first year significant numbers of these students applied. But being eligible for the first round doesn't automatically mean you are going to be picked in the first round. . . I have no idea how these students faired in the match. For all I know they all were eligible for the first round but were bypassed for Canadian grads.

 

Second, there was a large kerfuffle last year in Manitoba over a Manitoba court ruling that it was unconstitutional to bar IMGs from the first round. This ruling only applied to Manitoba. The effects across the country have not yet been decided, as far as I know, and this is still a very contentious issue. My understanding was that there was a one year compromise that let IMGs into the first round in Manitoba ONLY. And once again, just because IMGs were allowed in the first round doesn't mean the Manitoba residency programs were impressed by or not biased against them. . . and I have no idea if any IMGs matched to a Manitoba program in the first round of CaRMS.

 

Expect changes in the next few years, of what variety I know not. Particularly with the physician crunch and the fact both the media and politicians are currently making statements that suggest they are open to tapping this pool of cheaper-to-train-physicians to serve the short term crisis.

[Guest Lactic Folly]

hehe, Hardvard, was that intentional?

[Guest UWOMED2005]

No, it was a simple typo. If it had been intentional, it would have been:

 

HardformydaddytopayforandmetogetinbutnowthatI'mhereandmydaddyisrichitsactuallyprettyeasytogetAsvard.

 

Like that one? I'd also add:

 

Corthisivyleagueschoolisactuallyhardprobablytoohardconsideringthatplaquebythebridgenell

 

and

 

Washington "highest average required GPA and MCAT ranked 3 in the US and yet most people haven't heard of it" School of Medicine

 

and

 

Yahardyarightisn'tthiswherebushwenttoschooli'msuremydogcouldgraduatefromthisschoolifihadanextrahundredsixtythoudsandtoblowle

 

Those were intentional. I actually have a fair amount more respect for Cornell grads than Harvard grads, though obviously it entirely depends on the particular student.

 

For those of you who are intimidated by ivy league schools, let me share the story of someone I went to university with. I was on a pub crawl with this one guy who got really drunk and started talking about his apps. Apparently he got interviewed by Harvard, and being drunk he started talking about he thought it was a joke he was interviewed by Harvard - he started talking about how he'd scammed his way to high GPA by making sure to take the bird courses throughout university, and how he'd been into coke for half his degree. I know he interviewed at Harvard, but I must admit to have no clue whether he got in. . . but at the least he had the interview.

 

While having gone to a great school (such as Harvard) is impressive, I swore after that to never let a good school on the resume alone impress me.

[Guest warpath5]

Wash U's now #2, and no one's still heard of us