Suggestions for Good Mid-Tier US MD Schools

[bearpuppy]

Hi all, my stats below.. I'm looking for advice for a couple Canadian-friendly mid tier US schools that I would have a decent chance at, as a backup to my current apps in the US (top tier) and in Canada.

 

~3.4-3.5 GPA (science and non-science similar) undergrad

4.0 GPA Graduate

33S MCAT (10VR, 10PS, 13BS)

Currently doing my PhD in Medical Genetics (have a B.Sc. First class honours in Molecular Genetics).

Medium ECs -- have been lacking a bit during my PhD.

~10 different scholarships.. biggest one a 2 yr research stipend

4 publications so far, (1 first author, but I don't count it b/c its a review and not primary research article)

 

Thanks,

[blizzah]

3.5 GPA is going to hurt at most US schools (especially top tier) since many schools don't really care for the grad GPA. Obviously a PhD will help but I would assume it matters more at the top end research schools where the MCAT medians hover around 36.

 

Just find the lists of schools that people in the forum have applied to and go from there.

[bearpuppy]

3.5 GPA is going to hurt at most US schools (especially top tier) since many schools don't really care for the grad GPA. Obviously a PhD will help but I would assume it matters more at the top end research schools where the MCAT medians hover around 36.

 

Just find the lists of schools that people in the forum have applied to and go from there.

 

I hear you.. and I wish there's something I could do about the undergrad GPA, but I really can't - for what it's worth, my last year was 3.7 and I overloaded nearly all my semesters, completing almost 6 years equivalent in 4.. and I do not want to go back to taking undergrad course work, after a PhD, just to boost my GPA. so.. it is what it is at this point. MCAT, I could likely do better in a second round..though I'm also scared of losing my 13 in BS and my S in WS.

[Slashsev]

i dont know if u wanna hear it

 

but i think u gotto put in some good DO schools in ur list

 

pcom (maybe get an invite) and nice locations schools like Nova...

 

increase your school list

 

best solution bc if u dont get an acceptance at least ull have better back ups in place vs losing another year

[bearpuppy]

i dont know if u wanna hear it

 

but i think u gotto put in some good DO schools in ur list

 

pcom (maybe get an invite) and nice locations schools like Nova...

 

increase your school list

 

best solution bc if u dont get an acceptance at least ull have better back ups in place vs losing another year

 

Thank you for the advice -- I do not doubt that it would be a good idea, but I really am not willing to attend a DO school. Simply put, it may be considered equal in the US, but not if I ever wanted to go somewhere else or come back to Canada.

[Slashsev]

good luck bro

 

ur 3.5 probably wont ever get u a second look...

[UStoCanadaHopeful]

Thank you for the advice -- I do not doubt that it would be a good idea, but I really am not willing to attend a DO school. Simply put, it may be considered equal in the US, but not if I ever wanted to go somewhere else or come back to Canada.

 

I see you have not done your research? My school had a Canadian match back in Canada this year into residency (the only canadian in that class actually).

 

Please make sure you know what you are talking about before making false comments

[Slashsev]

hey i dont mind if

 

let the idiots filter it out that dont do their research...

 

ill sneak into a residency spot while the others apply a billion times and then end up going to int route..and have 0 chance

 

THIS IS THE BACKDOOR enterance into canada now!!

[bearpuppy]

I see you have not done your research? My school had a Canadian match back in Canada this year into residency (the only canadian in that class actually).

 

Please make sure you know what you are talking about before making false comments

 

It depends on the province as to whether they will give you a full licence AFTER residency. Ontario is problematic. In addition, it is not considered equal outside of North America.

 

Oh, and btw, no need to be rude. I described my reasons for not wanting to pursue a DO. Valid or not, that is my choice.

[Mashmetoo]

It depends on the province as to whether they will give you a full licence AFTER residency. Ontario is problematic. In addition, it is not considered equal outside of North America.

 

 

??? what in the hell are you talking about??

 

Have you even read the CPSO website pertaining to DOs? What problems are you referring to?

 

What do you think happens after residency? Do you think you can just waltz back into Canada with a MD after a US residency, and they'll let you practice, just like that?

 

Equal to WHAT outside of NA?

[bearpuppy]

??? what in the hell are you talking about??

 

Have you even read the CPSO website pertaining to DOs? What problems are you referring to?

 

What do you think happens after residency? Do you think you can just waltz back into Canada with a MD after a US residency, and they'll let you practice, just like that?

 

Equal to WHAT outside of NA?

 

For instance: some provinces have pending recognition (Saskatchewan?, PEI) or require Canadian residencies (Ontario, Nova Scotia) in order to practice. Most require post-graduate training in Canada prior to licensure (except Manitoba & NWT). This is usually not the case for MD degrees and MD residencies.

 

Furthermore -- some countries (in my case, South Africa) only allow OMM practice.

 

Thus, while there are very many similar rights and licensing, they are not equivalent. And if I ever decide to return to my country of birth, I would not be able to practice regular medicine.

[Hackintosh]

Hi all, my stats below.. I'm looking for advice for a couple Canadian-friendly mid tier US schools that I would have a decent chance at, as a backup to my current apps in the US (top tier) and in Canada.

 

~3.4-3.5 GPA (science and non-science similar) undergrad

4.0 GPA Graduate

33S MCAT (10VR, 10PS, 13BS)

Currently doing my PhD in Medical Genetics (have a B.Sc. First class honours in Molecular Genetics).

Medium ECs -- have been lacking a bit during my PhD.

~10 different scholarships.. biggest one a 2 yr research stipend

4 publications so far, (1 first author, but I don't count it b/c its a review and not primary research article)

 

Thanks,

 

Well, this may be a no-brainer for you but you should definately focus on schools with an emphasis on research since your research is the strongest part of your application. Case Western comes to mind. You should also be applying to University of Kentucky because they have a high regard for research.

[bearpuppy]

Well, this may be a no-brainer for you but you should definately focus on schools with an emphasis on research since your research is the strongest part of your application. Case Western comes to mind. You should also be applying to University of Kentucky because they have a high regard for research.

 

Thanks

 

Appreciate the information -- I have certainly tried to focus on research-driven schools. I added Case Western and will look into U Kentucky..

[Mashmetoo]

For instance: some provinces have pending recognition (Saskatchewan?, PEI) or require Canadian residencies (Ontario, Nova Scotia) in order to practice. Most require post-graduate training in Canada prior to licensure (except Manitoba & NWT). This is usually not the case for MD degrees and MD residencies.

 

Furthermore -- some countries (in my case, South Africa) only allow OMM practice.

 

Thus, while there are very many similar rights and licensing, they are not equivalent. And if I ever decide to return to my country of birth, I would not be able to practice regular medicine.

 

PEI and Saskatchewan are pending - true

Ontario needs Canadian residency? Where are you getting this from?

 

Most Canadian provinces need Canadian residencies for licensure?? This is usually not the case for MD degrees and MD residencies.?? DOs can do MD residencies, you know that right?

 

I think you need to do more research on licensure in Canada.

[bearpuppy]

PEI and Saskatchewan are pending - true

Ontario needs Canadian residency? Where are you getting this from?

 

Most Canadian provinces need Canadian residencies for licensure?? This is usually not the case for MD degrees and MD residencies.?? DOs can do MD residencies, you know that right?

 

I think you need to do more research on licensure in Canada.

 

Yes, I am aware that DOs can do MD residencies. Look, I'm not trying to diss your degree/program or anything, I'm just saying for myself, I only want to pursue a MD degree. And really, most of that has to do with the schools I want to pursue and the fact that I'm wanting a school with a strong research agenda.

[Mashmetoo]

Yes, I am aware that DOs can do MD residencies. Look, I'm not trying to diss your degree/program or anything, I'm just saying for myself, I only want to pursue a MD degree. And really, most of that has to do with the schools I want to pursue and the fact that I'm wanting a school with a strong research agenda.

 

Ya, I get that, and I couldn't care less which school you apply to or get into. You post these ambiguous things with no backup like how Ontario needs a Canadian residency? (really, where did you find this?) It just sounds wrong to me. Ever heard of the 4 pathways to licensure in Ontario?? Most Canadian provinces need Canadian residency for licensure?? Really? So if you are a MD, and you do a US MD residency, you can't go back to Canada? Really?

 

Then you make the conclusion that you should do MD if you want to go back to Canada, never mind the fact your GPA stats are mediocre at best, and most people who are serious about doing med would cast a wide net, regardless of MD/DO. Your premises are not entirely correct, and there are hundreds of people reading these forums, and making their future decisions based on what they see here. The least you can do is at least try to make factually correct statements.

 

The only legitimate argument for your not doing DO is the lack of practice rights in S. Africa, cool, I get it. The rest is pretty much bunk.

[bearpuppy]

Ya, I get that, and I couldn't care less which school you apply to or get into. You post these ambiguous things with no backup like how Ontario needs a Canadian residency? (really, where did you find this?) It just sounds wrong to me. Ever heard of the 4 pathways to licensure in Ontario?? Most Canadian provinces need Canadian residency for licensure?? Really? So if you are a MD, and you do a US MD residency, you can't go back to Canada? Really?

 

Then you make the conclusion that you should do MD if you want to go back to Canada, never mind the fact your GPA stats are mediocre at best, and most people who are serious about doing med would cast a wide net, regardless of MD/DO. Your premises are not entirely correct, and there are hundreds of people reading these forums, and making their future decisions based on what they see here. The least you can do is at least try to make factually correct statements.

 

The only legitimate argument for your not doing DO is the lack of practice rights in S. Africa, cool, I get it. The rest is pretty much bunk.

 

1. That's based on the current wikipedia page regarding osteopathic medicine licensure, which may be out of date (and to be honest as seeing my thread had nothing to do with DO in the first place, that's about as much effort as I'm going to put into it). Regardless, you didn't disagree about Nova Scotia.

 

2. No - I don't know the 4 pathways

 

3. Most Canadian provinces require residencies is again, based on #1 above. It is for DO program, not MD.

 

4. While my GPA is "mediocre" it has an upward trend, and a 4.0 at grad level. But really, this is absolutely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

5. Agreed. And some people are only willing to move to the United States if it is for an excellent school. I'd rather rewrite the MCAT 5 more times. That is MY choice.

 

6. My point is, they are NOT considered entirely equivalent throughout the world. There ARE many many similarities, but it not universal. You disagreed with this premise.

[Mashmetoo]

1. That's based on the current wikipedia page regarding osteopathic medicine licensure, which may be out of date (and to be honest as seeing my thread had nothing to do with DO in the first place, that's about as much effort as I'm going to put into it). Regardless, you didn't disagree about Nova Scotia.

 

2. No - I don't know the 4 pathways

 

3. Most Canadian provinces require residencies is again, based on #1 above. It is for DO program, not MD.

 

4. While my GPA is "mediocre" it has an upward trend, and a 4.0 at grad level. But really, this is absolutely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

5. Agreed. And some people are only willing to move to the United States if it is for an excellent school. I'd rather rewrite the MCAT 5 more times. That is MY choice.

 

6. My point is, they are NOT considered entirely equivalent throughout the world. There ARE many many similarities, but it not universal. You disagreed with this premise.

 

1) Currently, on that wikipedia page, it lists Nova Scotia as "unlimited" practice rights, so I don't know where you are getting your ideas from. As far as that wikipedia page says - only in Sasketwchen and PEI are the DO degree "pending".

 

2) Ok so this is exactly what I'm talking about, and why I responded to your thread in the first place. You'll notice that I completely ignored it until the moment you brought up DOs, and made the claim that DOs need Canadian residencies to practice in Canada, or something to that effect. Basically, no, you are wrong, this is not the case. If you read up on the 4 pathways, you wouldn't have made this blatant factual error.

 

3) You keep saying that, and it does not make any sense to me. Most Canadian provinces require residencies. Ok, where in Can/US do you NOT require residencies? Why are you being redundant? That's like saying most people need water to survive.. Well, can you name a jurisdiction in US/CAN where you don't need a residency to practice?

 

Or do you mean, most Canadian provinces require a CANADIAN residency to practice? Again, you haven't answered my question, you danced around it - so if a Canadian goes to a US MD school, does a US MD residency, he/she cannot come back to Canada to practice? Yes or No?

 

"It is for DO program, not MD" - again, what are referring to? Are you talking about how DOs need MD residencies to practice in Canada? Yes, we all know that.

 

4) Your GPA is absolutely relevant to the discussion of med school application. Unfortunately, you don't have the stongest stats, and you seem to want to milk your PhD and graduate work to help with your lower undergrad stats. This is understandable. You have your reasons for picking MD only, I get it. My point is, most people with weaker undergrad GPA would not be as picky as you.

 

5) Ya, I got that. I respect your choice. My beef is with your writing unchecked and incorrect facts regarding post med school licensure, followed by your complete apathy when you got the DO licensure facts wrong. Nevermind the fact that literally, hundreds of premeds are reading these forums, and making their future decisions. The only reason I bothered to respond to your thread at all was to correct factual errors, so premeds don't get the wrong idea. Again, you'll notice that I completely ignored this thread until you made the claim that "DOs can't go back to Canada" .

 

6) On the contrary, I acknowledged the fact that the DO degree is not universal, and not uniformly recognized around the world. This is why I said its lack of practice rights in S. Africa makes for a good reason to not take it. What I should have elaborated on is your assumption that the "MD" degree is "universal". I assure you, it is not. The MD is simply recognized in more countries in the world than most medical degrees, including the DO degree, but it is not recognized by every country in the world, hence, it is by no means universal. You can say the MD is recognized in S. Africa (I haven't checked, so I assume you did your research this time, and know that for a fact), which suits your purposes, but having more recognition does not make it "universal". FYI, the DO degree has international practice rights too - in around 50 countries the last time I checked.

[Slashsev]

1. That's based on the current wikipedia page regarding osteopathic medicine licensure, which may be out of date (and to be honest as seeing my thread had nothing to do with DO in the first place, that's about as much effort as I'm going to put into it). Regardless, you didn't disagree about Nova Scotia.

 

 

Exactly..if you dont know what you are talking about..maybe it is wise to not talk about you...

 

you are obviously uninformed...

 

http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_prov_e.shtml

 

a 5 mins search is all thats needed

 

we are all here to help (you)...and based on your poor stats..i think we can say DO is your best choice...and an US MD will at best..get an interview and be placed on waitlist.....unless some sschools come out of the wood works for a phd (??) you dont have a good shot...

 

the mcat is good..but thats balanced by the fact that ur canadian..and a 3.5 is very low for a canadian

 

if ud like to waste another 1-2yrs to get into an MD school by all means...

[Slashsev]

* your mcat and phd are your only strong points

 

i had a 3.5 (**** mcat..27) and 5 1st authors and a masters (4.0)..and i barely got into a DO

[bearpuppy]

* your mcat and phd are your only strong points

 

i had a 3.5 (**** mcat..27) and 5 1st authors and a masters (4.0)..and i barely got into a DO

 

thanks for your comments slashsev (don't mean this sarcastically at all).

 

Firstly -- the document you point to is actually for attaining a residency. My comments referred to a licence after residency (mostly anyway). However, if you look on that chart for Osteopathic School Graduates - Osteopathic degree holders have only Quebec, BC, Ontario and Alberta listed as eligible for CaRMS. This is in stark contrast to US MD grads as seen on this page.

 

I agree -- the GPA kills and unfortunately there's not a hell of a lot I can do unless I rewrite MCAT and score even higher (it was a PS10, VR10, BS13, S split) to balance the GPA.. however at this point as I'm getting ready to finish up my PhD, I really don't have the time to do that.

 

Another positive is that I just had another paper accepted and I'm also a co-inventor listed on a patent filed in the United States.

 

At least I'm considered in province for both UBC and UCalgary (my undergrad degree is from Alberta), so I think I have a good enough chance in Canada such that my US applications can be the "dream schools" that I am interested in, rather than the only options I have. Nothing is guaranteed - I realize that.

 

As an aside -- while I have not yet received interviews, I've only been rejected from 1 US school so far (UChicago; applied to 18 US MD programs).

[Slashsev]

no problem...i know it can get tense here..esp people can be jerk-ish as they are covered by the blanket of the internet

 

.....aside from the listed provinces...the MD and DO requirments are the same...

 

i personally WOULD NEVERRR move to newfoundland for a residency! no matter how much you paid me..and would prefer cali or fla!!

 

personally..based on doing trends (i had a "trend job"..wink wink..lol)

...i think the DO degree is going to expand in canada...

based on simple

 

A. no one can get into med here md

B. no one can get into med i md n the USA (the stats AREEE HARDER!!!..PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT!!! its harder to get into medschool in the US vs canada--- i know someone will post that iam wrong...iam not!!)

 

...then you got islands, do, or ireland

 

ireland is pure bull****...i would never recommend those schools!! ever!!

 

as the number of DO school explode out like crazy and start taking in more canadians..and the can gov is unwilling to meet the demands of the public..as its cheeaper to train abroad...

alote of people will end up picking DO..the meet american requirents, have 1st priority of schools, etc etc...

 

...DOover the last 10 years has been very hot...massive expansion and 1-4 grads a DO in a couple of years...that speaks volume

 

anyways..good luck bro with your choice

 

 

i will stop posting here..ha!!!