Motp - 2012

[McMasterHopeful]

Are you in the Forces MOTP program? Or interested in applying? Would like to chat with you about whats happening for 2012/2013.

 

How is the program going? Do you know how many MOTP spots they have this year?

 

Thanks for any info.

[in2bat0r]

So do you apply as soon as you receive an acceptance letter?

[McMasterHopeful]

That is my understanding. I also read that the military is no longer hurting for physicians and that you need to finish your first year of med school before they will take an app. I am waiting to hear back from the recruiter to confirm (he's on leave for a few weeks)

[Jochi1543]

I thought it was always like that - only 3 years of undergrad med funding at the max. So yeah, if you were at MacMaster or U of C, you could apply in first year, but anywhere else, you could only join in 2nd year.

[mm88]

I thought it was always like that - only 3 years of undergrad med funding at the max. So yeah, if you were at MacMaster or U of C, you could apply in first year, but anywhere else, you could only join in 2nd year.

 

Joch is right. The rules on when you can apply haven't changed.

 

You just won't be getting a signing bonus like the applicants of 3/4 years ago.

 

That is my understanding. I also read that the military is no longer hurting for physicians and that you need to finish your first year of med school before they will take an app. I am waiting to hear back from the recruiter to confirm (he's on leave for a few weeks)

 

Also, most recruiters know **** all about specialized programs like MOTP. You're better off asking Maj Gagnon for the deets (alain.gagnon2@forces.gc.ca). The SIP for 2013 won't be out until Jan/Feb, so no one knows how many spots are available right now. If someone quotes you a number, it's probably a guesstimate based on this year's numbers or something entirely made up.

 

If you're a deferring candidate, now is already too late for the November selections if you haven't started any paperwork.

[McMasterHopeful]

Alain Gagnon is on leave at the moment according to his auto-reply. That is who I am waiting to hear from.

 

I did not see anything about 3 yrs max funding on the forces site but that is good to know. In my case, hopefully it won't matter anyways.

 

I'm not entirely sold yet on MOTP which is why I was hoping to talk with some folks in it. Graduating without any debt would be nice, and being in the forces would be interesting. But having no choice in location or specialty, at least initially, gives me a moment of pause.

[mm88]

Personal opinion on some basic conditions that determine whether MOTP is a good fit for you:

 

-if you don't mind potentially being in your 40s by the time you get to your residency of choice (if family or CCFP-EM isn't what you want)

-if you aren't currently grounded or geographically constrained in terms of your relationships OR your spouse won't mind being dragged all over the country and moved 3-5 years/not seeing you for long periods of time every now and then

-if you are okay with being told what to do and having plans sporadically change last minute

 

I have met people (both physicians and non physicians) that had issues with one or more of these conditions and they were pretty miserable. Some people chose to terminate their contract early.

 

I would say talk to your family and/or SO first. Being in the military will have a huge impact on your life and theirs. You won't feel it while you're in school and you might when residency rolls around. Although I can assure you that you definitely will feel the difference once the honeymoon (i.e. training) is over and military life hits.

 

It might help if you and others to ask specific questions.

[Jochi1543]

Incidentally, I was at a military function with my bf the other day where I talked to a dental officer who's somewhat familiar with what the medical officers' lives are like. S/he painted a very negative picture - always overworked, never have time for work off base (which translates into loss of skills/boredom), losing weekends to army functions of questionable use, boring work - sprained ankles and the like, and constantly being punted from one site to another. That said, when I relayed some of that info to my bf, he really questioned some of the things s/he said, especially in regards to being deployed and time spent away from base. The DO made it sound like the MOs get deployed like 3-4 times in their 4 years, but then my bf told me that (at least for his unit), you cannot be deployed for more than 6 months in a 2-year period. So the MOST you could be deployed for over a 4-yr contract would be one year total. I suppose maybe docs were getting deployed lots, but for short periods of just a few months - which, IMO, is not that bad. So given all that, I'm not sure if that pessimistic view was even accurate, but I figured I might as well relay that info to you.

[The Ace of Spades]

I'm also interested in applying for this. I contacted Maj. Gagnon last year and this is what I received from him. He actually makes the process sound fairly competitive, thought I'm not sure if this is an increase in applicants or a decrease in spots. I'm also not sure what they are looking for in candidates, as I don't have any prior experience with the military and don't know if that would be a hindrance. It sounds like you can apply in Year 1 of a four year program as selection isn't until the end of the year.

 

Bonjour ___

 

Sorry for my delay to answer you before;

 

For the Medical Officer Training Plan (MOTP) you have to be:

 

· Be a Canadian citizen

 

· Accepted in Canadian medical school in order to eligible under the MOTP.

 

Furthermore, this plan is for civilians who wish to enrol in the CF after they have been accepted into medical school. The CF pays 100% of tuition costs, as well as a salary of about $45- 55K /year throughout all of medical school and family medicine residency, and then the individual owes the CF four years of service.

 

When to start the recruiting process? Once you have received your acceptance letter from any Canadian medical school.

 

Each year the selection for the MOTP is conducted in the 3rd week of July. For the intakes in 2012 the Canadian Forces will take 4 to 8 MOTP candidates. At the selection board we are anticipated to have between 25 and 40 candidates.

 

Speciality, we do offer only after few years spent has a medical officer (family doc)

 

You can apply any time in Dec or Jan for our next selection in July 11. If you do wish to apply please advise me and I will help you with the recruiting process.

 

I hope these answers will help you and if you have any further questions do not hesitate to ask.

 

Maj Alain Gagnon

[McMasterHopeful]

Year to year I don't know that the number of people applying has changed significantly, but the number of spots available has. According to a PM from a current MOTP member, in 2009 there were around 20 applicants competing for 10 spots. Another post said that 2011 had 2 spots.

 

As for the info about life in the Forces, I really appreciate you guys passing this info / experience on. Sure, people will outrank you, but I was hoping that as a physician you would at least be in a leadership role and not some errand boy getting an @ss chewing.

 

I guess its still the military at the end of the day. Since you put it that way, it sounds much less appealing than running your own practice

[mm88]

The military pretty much take anyone as long as there are spots and you show that you have leadership inclination and some drive - no prior experience necessary. Some community involvement/volunteerism and/or minor athletic ability would be helpful. Most med applicants should already have all that stuff covered in their ECs just by preparing for med school.

 

Prior military experience only helps when you're on course (because you already know how the military works) and in terms of pay. Since they give credit for previous time in, you'd move up to the next pay incentive sooner.

 

I don't know how many applicants there were last year (2012) but I heard there was something in the realm of 10-15 spots. Don't quote me on that, it's all hearsay.

[McMasterHopeful]

15 spots last year? From 2? If that is correct...wow. Gives those who want a spot a much better opportunity.

[mm88]

15 spots last year? From 2? If that is correct...wow. Gives those who want a spot a much better opportunity.

 

It varies year to year and depends on a lot of factors. So it's really hard to tell what this coming year will be like.

[larva]

My professional, expert and hugely biased opinion: DON'T DO IT!

 

If you really want to play army, join the reserves and do it on the weekend.

[McMasterHopeful]

My professional, expert and hugely biased opinion: DON'T DO IT!

 

If you really want to play army, join the reserves and do it on the weekend.

 

Care to elaborate

[The Ace of Spades]

Were you actually a Medical Officer in the Forces, Para D? If so, it sounds pretty depressing.

[NutritionRunner]

Wow, Para D, thank you for your service, but your experience sounds radically different from that of my close cousin, who has 20+ years in as an officer, and who doesn't speak French. He knows he'll never be promoted past Major, since he doesn't speak French, but he's okay with that. He's been sent on French training a couple of times, but never finished up, because something has always come up (missions, other trainings like jump training, etc.) He also doesn't want to have the kind of workload that Colonels typically have!

 

He loves the military life and can't imagine ever getting out. He's an engineer, and as he says, where else can he get paid to build stuff and blow things up! He's also been fortunate that he's never lost any close friends. He's served in Haiti, Bosnia, Eritrea, and Afghanistan (if I'm remembering all his tours correctly). He only did one tour in Afghanistan though - he was in Europe in a NATO billet for many of the years of Canada's heaviest involvement there.

 

He tells me there are downsides to army life, but he loves having essentially a different job every day. No two days are the same. He can't imagine ever having a "regular" job, so he plans on staying in until forced to retire.

 

Army life certainly isn't for everyone, but I know my cousin greatly enjoys his career. I would hardly call him lazy, stupid or broke. He's an extremely intelligent man. He didn't go to RMC however - he studied engineering at a civilian university, was in the reserves during university, and then joined the reg force after he graduated. And I don't know why you would call the CF disorganized and a "crap hole" outfit when my uncle tells me that all our NATO allies in Europe think very highly of the Canadian officers and soldiers they've worked with, and admire some of our pieces of kit!

[Jochi1543]

If you want to be treated like crap and sent to the worst corners of this country (or more likely ocean as you will be on a ship watching your family via facebook for six month stretches) then by all means give up your choice of specialty and any shred of autonomy you have so you can be a third rate family physician who treats roid-monkeys and malingering DBs in Tuktiuktuk.

 

ROFL (sorry)

[mm88]

For those of you who have a hard time understanding why larva and Para D said the things they did.... you literally have to be there to understand. As an outsider looking in, you will never have an adequate appreciation for the kind of **** that goes on in the military.

 

Here are a few stories I have either witnessed with my own eyes or were experienced by friends:

 

1. Service couple are separated and not paid separation expenses (this is before the new CANFORGEN) because they got married "in the wrong place" - i.e weren't posted together when they got married so it's their fault and they don't deserve any SE.

 

2. Expectant mother awaiting voluntary release is forced to stay in the shacks on base when she's not doing any productive work at said base. Common sense dictates that she should be able to join her husband at the base he is posted to. NOPE!

 

3. Hey! I'm broken, so broken I can't complete basic training or do my job pretty much indefinitely. Please send me home! NOPE! We are going to pay you to live on base and stay there for THREE YEARS while you are untrained and not doing anything particularly useful.

 

...this is why, boys and girls. This is why.

 

BUT! There are idiots like myself (and a classmate) who are stupid enough to go back after we've managed to escape the beast. I guess we just couldn't get enough of the nonsense and silliness!

[larva]

 

Anyway this kind of sums up my argument

 

 

 

The point of the poster aside, that blonde girl is a friend of mine

[McMasterHopeful]

Thanks for sharing your individual perspectives. Definitely gives me a moment of pause.

 

For those who are still interested, I was told by Maj. Gagnon today that for 2013 there are potentially 15-25 motp spots....and the same for the coming few years.

[The Ace of Spades]

For those who are still interested, I was told by Maj. Gagnon today that for 2013 there are potentially 15-25 motp spots....and the same for the coming few years.

 

Thanks for the update. Now I should start seriously thinking about this though...

[McMasterHopeful]

On another topic, I was under the impression that residency was completed with the military for some odd reason. I guess it was just the way I read the forces website. But this is not the case - you still go through carms. What would happen if you failed to match there? Is that possible? I thought I read about one or two unlucky folks but I could be wrong.

[mm88]

On another topic, I was under the impression that residency was completed with the military for some odd reason. I guess it was just the way I read the forces website. But this is not the case - you still go through carms. What would happen if you failed to match there? Is that possible? I thought I read about one or two unlucky folks but I could be wrong.

 

 

2nd iteration? MOTP has it's own spots and some spots were vacant last cycle (probably due to mata/pata). http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2012R1_MatchResults/37_Summary%20of%20Vacancies%20by%20Medical%20School%20and%20Discipline_en.pdf <-shows 13 vacant spots

 

I'm pretty sure you can't NOT MATCH anywhere, you just might not get your preference for location. The military treats residency like a posting, I've never heard of anyone not getting posted anywhere at all after a course (which is what this would be equivalent to) unless they failed (or screwed up ALL your electives/didn't do a family elective and bomb your family core rotation) or broke themselves horribly. Don't sweat it!

[McMasterHopeful]

2nd iteration? MOTP has it's own spots and some spots were vacant last cycle (probably due to mata/pata). http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2012R1_MatchResults/37_Summary%20of%20Vacancies%20by%20Medical%20School%20and%20Discipline_en.pdf <-shows 13 vacant spots

 

I'm pretty sure you can't NOT MATCH anywhere, you just might not get your preference for location. The military treats residency like a posting, I've never heard of anyone not getting posted anywhere at all after a course (which is what this would be equivalent to) unless they failed (or screwed up ALL your electives/didn't do a family elective and bomb your family core rotation) or broke themselves horribly. Don't sweat it!

 

Thanks for making me realize how completely clueless I am about matching

 

On the upside, I have at least the next 4 years to figure it out. And thanks for posting