PhDs

[_3884]

Hi guys, just wondering what the funding situation is like for doing a PhD during/after residency? Fellowships? Self-funding? Massive pay cut?

 

I'm an M4 in the UK at the moment - here most doctorates are fellowship funded. So your income stays roughly the same (though you won't make as much as a resident that does a lot of on-call work).

[futureGP]

Graduate degrees (incl. PhD) can be obtained in the following 2-ways (from the perspectives of medicine)

 

MD/PhD degrees

-- a combined undergraduate medical degree with a PhD

-- typically takes 8-9 years to complete both

-- during these years, students typically receive research grants or funding (similar to research grants given to graduate students) typically from $20 000 to $30 000

 

After MD/residency, pursuing PhD independently

-- after completion of MD, residency, one feels the need to pursue a PhD (Typically in the basic sciences) to be eligible for faculty positions working as a clinician-scientist (devoting the majority of their time in research with protected clinical time)

-- Separate funding required independently for PhD (not related to the medical system) that is in parallel with a non-MD student pursuing a PhD

-- $20 000 to $30 000 based on grants acquired

 

During residency

-- several specialty programs offer fellowships that allow residents to pursue graduate degrees (MSc or PhD)

-- typically an option to pursue PhD is offered in super-specialized specialties in research-heavy locations (e.g. Neurosurgery at the University of Toronto)

-- most general specialties have funding available to pursue 2-years of research ending up with a MSc (e.g. internal medicine, psychiatry, anesthesiology, emergency medicine)

-- e.g. Clinician Investigator Program

-- when graduate degrees / research are pursued during residency, typical 'resident-salary' is given ($60 000 yo $75 000)

[_3884]

Thanks! Do you/does anyone else know how difficult it might be to get an academic post without a doctorate? Say, as a clinician with a masters degree, and a fair bit of research experience?

[NLengr]

Thanks! Do you/does anyone else know how difficult it might be to get an academic post without a doctorate? Say, as a clinician with a masters degree, and a fair bit of research experience?

 

You do not need a PhD to get a position at an academic hospital. Very few staff there have PhD's.

 

The reason is because you are teaching residents and fellows medicine, not research. And most of the research is clinical anyway, so a PhD adds very little. The MD is what matters. If you want to run a basic science lab in conjunction with non medical faculties a PhD is a bit of a help.

 

Isn't UofT neurosurg like 10 years long for residency due to the PhD?

[thebouque]

Thanks! Do you/does anyone else know how difficult it might be to get an academic post without a doctorate? Say, as a clinician with a masters degree, and a fair bit of research experience?

 

The MD is more than enough

[cheech10]

Depends on the department and demand. For example, new hires in Toronto's Department of Medicine typically need at least a MSc, MEd, MPH etc for an academic appointment, while other Universities are less strict about it.

[_3884]

Awesome, thanks guys!