To work or not to work?

[physio2med]

So now that I'm accepted, and reality is sinking in, I'm wondering if my plan makes sense...

 

I'm a physiotherapist with 5 years experience, and I work in a private clinic. My boss is very flexible, and basically is willing to let me work whatever I'm comfortable with during school. I just kind of assumed I would continue working part time, but now I'm starting to see that there is that tipping point where more work means less grants, as well as concerns about having enough time to study.

 

A few factors to consider:

 

I have already made "too much" this year to qualify for ANY grant money in the Quebec student loans, therefore, working in my first year will have no impact on grant money.

 

My work is easy enough for me, as I've been in it for 5 years, and I've been working 10 hour days with 2 hours of commuting for a long time. I'm almost freaked out by the UdeM schedule... just looks like there is soooo much free time, like 2 afternoons off and a whole day off per week. Compared to physio school, where I was in class 5 days a week 8:30-5.

 

I'm pretty sure I want to do family med/sports med. Am I right to assume that this is NOT a competitive area? Does that mean I can relax and not stress about grades and research so much?

 

I would like to remain current in physiotherapy, and I also think continuing to work in the centre I am currently in, which is basically a mini-hospital, will give me good opportunities to shadow doctors. We have a very good relationship with many of the docs, and I'm sure once they know I'm going into training, they will allow me to spend some time in their world. Does anyone know if it's considered a plus to continue in an allied health field during med school?

 

I just bought a condo, and I was hoping to cover as much as possible without dipping too much into LOC. I'm very debt-averse, as I've never had any before.

 

I'm just concerned about going from making close to 70k a year to basically nothing, and weather I can make it work with class and everything. Also, what would be the ideal number of hours to work? I make around 40$/hour.

 

Any advice??

[psychoswim]

I don't think any of the PTs in my class work regular hours except during breaks/vacations/summer... though I think some do a few hours here and there.

 

Yeah the schedule has a lot of "free time" but it's not really free time, we mainly have small-group problems with learning objectives you have to go find out on your own so you do need to do a good deal of reading/work outside the classrooms. I don't think I would recommend starting right away with (lots of) outside work, maybe see how it goes first and adjust after? The first topic is pretty relaxed, but once you start pathology then you'll have a better idea.

 

As for money, well if you work this year then you'll be hurt for government grants next year again.. And the LOC, well I decided I was going to use mine and not starve to death/live the most boring life ever because we will be able to pay it back once we start working.. My brother-in-law used his pharmacy LOC to put the down payment on 2 triplex and he paid it back within his first 2 years of work.

[ralk]

Not a PT, but in a somewhat similar situation, with a good job that I initially thought it would make sense to maintain.

 

Time really does seem to be more valuable than money at this point; debt is pretty much unavoidable without significant savings or support, and spending too much energy and time making money can hurt your opportumities to advance your career, particularly networking opportunities.

 

Because of the way grants work, earning money becomes self-defeating in a certain range, which seems to be about $5-20k. Lower than that, you're not cutting significantly into your grants, while above that your grants are already gone so additional dollars don't cut into things any further. Unfortunately, I figured out at my salary, which is fairly close to your's, a full summer spent working puts the salary right in the middle of that range. I would still end up ahead in financial terms, but only marginally. Now, unlike me, you say you can work during the year, which could push you past that self-defeating zone, but that is still a lot of effort. Also, I don't know about Quebec, but Ontario is a bit more forgiving for money earned during the year - it doesn't cut into grants nearly as much.

 

It's a balancing act, and the system isn't set up to make it simple. Every dollar you earn does reduce your debt, but sometimes by far less than a dollar. It's no fun earning $30+ an hour, but to be effectively making minimum wage due to lost grants!

[physio2med]

 

As for money, well if you work this year then you'll be hurt for government grants next year again.. And the LOC, well I decided I was going to use mine and not starve to death/live the most boring life ever because we will be able to pay it back once we start working.. My brother-in-law used his pharmacy LOC to put the down payment on 2 triplex and he paid it back within his first 2 years of work.

 

 

As I said, I'm already way above the cutoff this year, as I'll have made over 43k by the time I start classes. According to the online simulator I used, that didn't seem to affect things for the following year, but I could be wrong? That's why I'm thinking, I'll work as much as possible this year (but not go crazy), cut back to maximize bursary next year, and then see how it goes I guess. Is it even possible to work on the side in clinical years? Like, is it a full time schedule when we're in hospitals?

 

How much can I expect in bursaries with no income? The simulator gave me about 7k per year, but I wasn't 100% sure about tuition, or if I should include the other fees.

 

Any insight on how likely it is to get other bursaries/scholarships if I apply for a bunch?

 

Thanks a million

[psychoswim]

As I said, I'm already way above the cutoff this year, as I'll have made over 43k by the time I start classes. According to the online simulator I used, that didn't seem to affect things for the following year, but I could be wrong? That's why I'm thinking, I'll work as much as possible this year (but not go crazy), cut back to maximize bursary next year, and then see how it goes I guess. Is it even possible to work on the side in clinical years? Like, is it a full time schedule when we're in hospitals?

 

How much can I expect in bursaries with no income? The simulator gave me about 7k per year, but I wasn't 100% sure about tuition, or if I should include the other fees.

 

Any insight on how likely it is to get other bursaries/scholarships if I apply for a bunch?

 

Thanks a million

 

I'm not sure but I think what you earn this year affects the funding for 2014-2015.. But reallly I don't completly understand how it works.

 

I get around 12 000$ a year of combined loan/bursaries from the QC government with no income. I've gotten a couple of research bursaries but nothing else.

 

No way you can work on the side during clerkship!! Seriously, it's more than a full-time job already with "regular" hours + call... For pre-clerkship, as I said, I would probably start easy and see how things go.

[Real Beef]

I understand the concerns about rising debt levels and wishing to have some money come in. I will give you the 'other perspective' that of someone who DID work during first year med school.

 

The formula for gaining bursaries and loans is multifactorial for sure, not just how much you made but also your expenses. For example I made over over 100k the year before med school (the tax return they worked off of) and 80k before I started school. However I also have a relatively large mortgage that I maintain and wasnt going to sell my house just because I got into med school ... so I rented an apartment in the city and maintained my home afar. Certainly student loans wanted a letter as to why I needed to have two residences but it wasnt a problem and I was assessed more favorably. I didnt get full student loans and got some bursaries as well.

 

I chose to work during school to minimize my debt and do not regret it. It was tough and stressful and took time management but I ended up making 33k during the school year maintaining my debt to 25k this year rather than 61k when compared to a classmate who is in a similar predicament (mortgage) but didnt work. Considering tuition is 20k in Ontario I feel like I fared well. I will work next year as well (2nd yr med) but will stop for 3-4th year due to the intensity of work.

 

I always tell people who ask, if you are making less than 30$/hr dont bother working during med school but at 40$/hr or more its a no brainer if you are a good time manager. Besides if it becomes to much than you can always stop. I ended up maintaining my marks at the class average (80+%, except for the lab exams ..lol) so I gauged it as to whether I could maintain my marks.

 

In the end it is an individual decision ... no way I would have got $33k worth of bursaries and other monies I wouldnt have to pay back in the end so for me it is/was a no brainer. But it was uber-stressful at times and I questioned my decision several times when viewing my other classmates who seemed so chilled while I was busting my butt.

 

Of course in the large scheme of things though 33k may only 2 months wages as an MD so maybe it isnt worth it ... who knows but I am fine with minimizing it all at this point.

 

Beef

[physio2med]

I'm not sure but I think what you earn this year affects the funding for 2014-2015.. But reallly I don't completly understand how it works.

 

I get around 12 000$ a year of combined loan/bursaries from the QC government with no income. I've gotten a couple of research bursaries but nothing else.

 

No way you can work on the side during clerkship!! Seriously, it's more than a full-time job already with "regular" hours + call... For pre-clerkship, as I said, I would probably start easy and see how things go.

 

Thank you!

 

You're very helpful. I don't know anyone else in med as I'm coming from the workplace, so I have so many questions right now! Maybe we'll run into each other some day on campus. You can tell me what's coming ahead of me. Is that creepy? Lol. I'm not trying to be creepy.

 

Going back to school after being out for so long, and where I was living at home through undergrad, versus now being on my own and having responsibilities... it's a whole new ball game.

[physio2med]

I understand the concerns about rising debt levels and wishing to have some money come in. I will give you the 'other perspective' that of someone who DID work during first year med school.

 

The formula for gaining bursaries and loans is multifactorial for sure, not just how much you made but also your expenses. For example I made over over 100k the year before med school (the tax return they worked off of) and 80k before I started school. However I also have a relatively large mortgage that I maintain and wasnt going to sell my house just because I got into med school ... so I rented an apartment in the city and maintained my home afar. Certainly student loans wanted a letter as to why I needed to have two residences but it wasnt a problem and I was assessed more favorably. I didnt get full student loans and got some bursaries as well.

 

I chose to work during school to minimize my debt and do not regret it. It was tough and stressful and took time management but I ended up making 33k during the school year maintaining my debt to 25k this year rather than 61k when compared to a classmate who is in a similar predicament (mortgage) but didnt work. Considering tuition is 20k in Ontario I feel like I fared well. I will work next year as well (2nd yr med) but will stop for 3-4th year due to the intensity of work.

 

I always tell people who ask, if you are making less than 30$/hr dont bother working during med school but at 40$/hr or more its a no brainer if you are a good time manager. Besides if it becomes to much than you can always stop. I ended up maintaining my marks at the class average (80+%, except for the lab exams ..lol) so I gauged it as to whether I could maintain my marks.

 

In the end it is an individual decision ... no way I would have got $33k worth of bursaries and other monies I wouldnt have to pay back in the end so for me it is/was a no brainer. But it was uber-stressful at times and I questioned my decision several times when viewing my other classmates who seemed so chilled while I was busting my butt.

 

Of course in the large scheme of things though 33k may only 2 months wages as an MD so maybe it isnt worth it ... who knows but I am fine with minimizing it all at this point.

 

Beef

 

Thanks for the perspective.

 

The online quebec simulator didn't ask anything about other expenses, such as mortgage. They just assume I have ridiculously cheap rent and living expenses. I guess it's worth me meeting with someone to get a better idea. Is that possible?

 

Also, although I'm planning to work part time, I probably won't be partying very much at all, aside from a bit of socializing to develop good relations with my peers. I never attended parties in undergrad, and I doubt I'll be doing that now. I'm in a stable relationship, work is stable, and I just can't see myself needing to study during all my waking hours. But I guess I'll soon find out!!

[psychoswim]

Thank you!

 

You're very helpful. I don't know anyone else in med as I'm coming from the workplace, so I have so many questions right now! Maybe we'll run into each other some day on campus. You can tell me what's coming ahead of me. Is that creepy? Lol. I'm not trying to be creepy.

 

Going back to school after being out for so long, and where I was living at home through undergrad, versus now being on my own and having responsibilities... it's a whole new ball game.

 

You're welcome

 

I'm sure we'll meet eventually!

 

QC funding seems pretty different from Ontario and other provinces.. I don't think there is anything about mortgage and it's pretty cheap on the living expenses... This year it's calculating 6 000$ for my living expenses which doesn't even cover my rent which is pretty cheap!

[future_doc]

Quebec also gives me about 12k in bursaries/loans and I have no assets or income. The Bank LOC covers the balance of my expenses. Bursaries are the greater portion and it does not pay to work, as you will just be reducing your bursary. So, effectively, you will be working for nothing. During summers I will take a long break, do research and/or a clinical rotation.