clinical research opportunities for undergrads?

[medigeek]

I know about SickKids and IMS, is there anything else?

[mrewmrew]

SickKids, IMS, UHN (princess Margaret + toronto west + toronto general), st michaels, baycrest, mt sinai, womens hospital

 

There's definitely more, but those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head that have summer student research programs specifically for undergrads.

[medigeek]

Thanks. Do you know which ones are "least competitive" or relatively "easier" to get a position at?

 

I know sickkids is very competitive, not sure about IMS or the rest.

[mrewmrew]

Last year (first year) I tried applying to St Mikes but at the time of application I had no transcript or anything... I applied to like 10 labs and got an interview, which I had to do over the phone from Western which sucked. I didn't manage to get the spot. I think I was pretty dumb though, I didn't attach my resume to the initial emails I sent the PIs, instead I basically sent my "cover letter" as the email, ending with me asking if they had any summer positions available. Most of them probably went tl;dr, haha. I applied pretty early too, like in early december. Anyways, it was a good learning experience. A few of my first year friends did manage to get paid positions (I know two who got positions at St. Mikes and one at Princess Marg, one at Toronto General), and they all applied much much later than I did, one of them even applied in March and got a position at St. Mikes. So there's definitely a method to this madness.

 

I'm debating whether or not to apply again this year because I'm going for dent... so research experience isn't my first priority. These Toronto hospital summer research programs do take up a lot of time (9-5 Mon-Friday May-August) which leaves virtually no time for any EC's or MCAT/DAT studying. Also, they're almost always short term stints ending in something like a poster or a conference, so a pub or anything like that would be very unlikely, especially if you don't attend UofT, cause you can't continue in the lab during the year. But yea this time I'll have a 4.0 from first year to show instead of no transcript... which would hopefully help.

 

In terms of difficulty... I don't have much experience but just judging by where my friends got positions, I'd say St. Mikes is definitely the most receptive, followed by the three UHN hospitals. Not sure about the rest unfortunately. If I were to apply again this year I'd definitely apply much more widely and not write a tl;dr email, plus attach my resume to the first initial emails I send out.

[medigeek]

Last year (first year) I tried applying to St Mikes but at the time of application I had no transcript or anything... I applied to like 10 labs and got an interview, which I had to do over the phone from Western which sucked. I didn't manage to get the spot. I think I was pretty dumb though, I didn't attach my resume to the initial emails I sent the PIs, instead I basically sent my "cover letter" as the email, ending with me asking if they had any summer positions available. Most of them probably went tl;dr, haha. I applied pretty early too, like in early december. Anyways, it was a good learning experience. A few of my first year friends did manage to get paid positions (I know two who got positions at St. Mikes and one at Princess Marg, one at Toronto General), and they all applied much much later than I did, one of them even applied in March and got a position at St. Mikes. So there's definitely a method to this madness.

 

I'm debating whether or not to apply again this year because I'm going for dent... so research experience isn't my first priority. These Toronto hospital summer research programs do take up a lot of time (9-5 Mon-Friday May-August) which leaves virtually no time for any EC's or MCAT/DAT studying. Also, they're almost always short term stints ending in something like a poster or a conference, so a pub or anything like that would be very unlikely, especially if you don't attend UofT, cause you can't continue in the lab during the year. But yea this time I'll have a 4.0 from first year to show instead of no transcript... which would hopefully help.

 

In terms of difficulty... I don't have much experience but just judging by where my friends got positions, I'd say St. Mikes is definitely the most receptive, followed by the three UHN hospitals. Not sure about the rest unfortunately. If I were to apply again this year I'd definitely apply much more widely and not write a tl;dr email, plus attach my resume to the first initial emails I send out.

 

interesting info.. thanks.

 

What is the value of a poster or something of the like for a med school resume anyways? In terms of research value.

Any possibilities of an abstract generally in these projects?

[mrewmrew]

interesting info.. thanks.

 

What is the value of a poster or something of the like for a med school resume anyways? In terms of research value.

Any possibilities of an abstract generally in these projects?

 

This is what I was wondering last year too. Given the fact that apparently you're only supposed to list pubs, abstracts, and conferences, and arguably honours thesis on your OMSAS app under research experience... I'm not sure where a poster would come in. I searched this a bit last year on premed101 and I think generally people would list summer research under "employment" and not research experience. So yea, I wasn't really sure if it was "worth" it to spend a whole summer doing a 9-5 research job. In retrospect, I'm kind of glad I didn't get a position, haha, cause I was able to do a variety of very enjoyable and valuable volunteering, amongst other things in those 4 months. Many of my friends who did summer research had no time for any other activities.

 

Perhaps someone more experienced can comment, but I don't feel these types of summer programs have much value... unlikely to get a strong LOR from a PI who has only known you for 4 months, most likely no pubs, and it really doesn't seem to offer much to talk about during interviews (you're not really gonna get that much responsibility in a lab as an undergrad, especially in a 4 month period). I personally think those 4 months could be better spent studying for MCAT/volunteering/relaxing/working part time, but that's coming from someone who's never done any research whatsoever

 

On the other hand, I know people who stayed at school (western) during the summer to take summer courses and simultaneously volunteer in a lab, with no pay. Many of them continued volunteering in the same lab during the school year and seem to be able to do some pretty neat things. I think research experiences that can potentially lead to a long term position are much more valuable. But I ain't staying in London for the summer just to volunteer in a lab LOL (maybe if they gave me nserc).

[medigeek]

This is what I was wondering last year too. Given the fact that apparently you're only supposed to list pubs, abstracts, and conferences, and arguably honours thesis on your OMSAS app under research experience... I'm not sure where a poster would come in. I searched this a bit last year on premed101 and I think generally people would list summer research under "employment" and not research experience. So yea, I wasn't really sure if it was "worth" it to spend a whole summer doing a 9-5 research job. In retrospect, I'm kind of glad I didn't get a position, haha, cause I was able to do a variety of very enjoyable and valuable volunteering, amongst other things in those 4 months. Many of my friends who did summer research had no time for any other activities.

 

Perhaps someone more experienced can comment, but I don't feel these types of summer programs have much value... unlikely to get a strong LOR from a PI who has only known you for 4 months, most likely no pubs, and it really doesn't seem to offer much to talk about during interviews (you're not really gonna get that much responsibility in a lab as an undergrad, especially in a 4 month period). I personally think those 4 months could be better spent studying for MCAT/volunteering/relaxing/working part time, but that's coming from someone who's never done any research whatsoever

 

On the other hand, I know people who stayed at school (western) during the summer to take summer courses and simultaneously volunteer in a lab, with no pay. Many of them continued volunteering in the same lab during the school year and seem to be able to do some pretty neat things. I think research experiences that can potentially lead to a long term position are much more valuable. But I ain't staying in London for the summer just to volunteer in a lab LOL (maybe if they gave me nserc).

Yea I was weighing the pros and cons the same way.

 

I think someone needs to chip in on the possibility of getting something that's application worthy (strictly research wise) out of such opportunities.

[Depression]

Last year (first year) I tried applying to St Mikes but at the time of application I had no transcript or anything... I applied to like 10 labs and got an interview, which I had to do over the phone from Western which sucked. I didn't manage to get the spot. I think I was pretty dumb though, I didn't attach my resume to the initial emails I sent the PIs, instead I basically sent my "cover letter" as the email, ending with me asking if they had any summer positions available. Most of them probably went tl;dr, haha. I applied pretty early too, like in early december. Anyways, it was a good learning experience. A few of my first year friends did manage to get paid positions (I know two who got positions at St. Mikes and one at Princess Marg, one at Toronto General), and they all applied much much later than I did, one of them even applied in March and got a position at St. Mikes. So there's definitely a method to this madness.

 

I thought St. Mike's doesn't need transcripts. It doesn't mention that anywhere on the application form nor the website.

 

http://www.stmichaelshospital.com/research/edsummer.php

[medigeek]

so what is the likelihood for getting an abstract out of such an opportunity (ex. st mikes) for anyone who's done it or knows about such opportunities.

[mrewmrew]

I thought St. Mike's doesn't need transcripts. It doesn't mention that anywhere on the application form nor the website.

 

http://www.stmichaelshospital.com/research/edsummer.php

 

Well technically you don't "need" anything to apply for St. Mikes. I think its summer program is "less structured" than the other ones, in the sense that you just have to contact the PI and then give he/she what they request. It's not really like SickKids and the others where they tell you exactly what to send to the PIs. For example, before I got the interview at St. Mikes, the lab told me to send them transcripts (which I didn't have, I only had a bunch of crappy highschool marks with 70s..), a cover letter, a writing sample, and references + letter if available. It seems to differ immensely from lab to lab, so sometimes it comes down to who you email and the luck of the draw.

 

I also got the sense that what you get out of St. Mikes summer research program totally depends on the lab too. It's not like sunnybrook or sickkids where they say it will definitely culminate in a poster competition. From what I hear it seems to be pretty loosey goosey in terms of the "research" you actually do. One of my friends spent a lot of time scanning papers at St Mikes, but it did get better after a few weeks. He also consistently left at like 2pm instead of 5pm cause there was nothing left to do and the supervisor allowed him to leave. You can't really expect them to teach you much in 4 months to do anything substantial, hence why I am having a very hard time seeing the value of spending 4 months in a program such as this.

 

It seems like research is something every premed seems to have right now... having this on your sketch doesn't seem to really make you stand out anymore. Of course if you could get a pub out of it it would be different, but that's unlikely. I admit that honestly the only reason why I even applied last year was because everyone seemed to be gunning for random "research" positions, not because I really wanted to.

[MathewsMD]

For these research programs, generally how much of a time investment is it outside of the 9-5 schedule? I'm planning on taking Organic Chemistry (either online but hopefully in the evening somewhere--any suggestions?) while doing the research and getting $6000 would be decent, although tuition will take that pretty quickly. From what I've read in this thread, it doesn't seem to be the most worthwhile on paper at least, unless an unlikely a pub can be attained. Does anyone have anything to offer about these programs in terms of experience and enjoyment?

[uwodesperate]

For these research programs, generally how much of a time investment is it outside of the 9-5 schedule? I'm planning on taking Organic Chemistry (either online but hopefully in the evening somewhere--any suggestions?) while doing the research and getting $6000 would be decent, although tuition will take that pretty quickly. From what I've read in this thread, it doesn't seem to be the most worthwhile on paper at least, unless an unlikely a pub can be attained. Does anyone have anything to offer about these programs in terms of experience and enjoyment?

 

Yeah... I currently have two roles, one in clinical and another in translational, and I am learning a lot and getting to do some neat stuff but I just can't see myself getting pub(s) out of all this...

[MedicalStateOfMind]

Yeah... I currently have two roles, one in clinical and another in translational, and I am learning a lot and getting to do some neat stuff but I just can't see myself getting pub(s) out of all this...

 

Come on! Getting publications isn't the only purpose of researching! You gain lots of hands on experience, critical thinking, team building, developing new ideas. If you don't seem to be publishing papers then make a poster! Universities have poster competitions throughout the year.. you can even submit your research at undergrad health conferences like CUHCO.

 

Remember it's what you make of the experience not the experience itself. Med schools look at your time and commitment put into research. Publications are just the cherry on top of the cake. They do add value, yes, but so does pure researching at a lab.

[Edict]

Well technically you don't "need" anything to apply for St. Mikes. I think its summer program is "less structured" than the other ones, in the sense that you just have to contact the PI and then give he/she what they request. It's not really like SickKids and the others where they tell you exactly what to send to the PIs. For example, before I got the interview at St. Mikes, the lab told me to send them transcripts (which I didn't have, I only had a bunch of crappy highschool marks with 70s..), a cover letter, a writing sample, and references + letter if available. It seems to differ immensely from lab to lab, so sometimes it comes down to who you email and the luck of the draw.

 

I also got the sense that what you get out of St. Mikes summer research program totally depends on the lab too. It's not like sunnybrook or sickkids where they say it will definitely culminate in a poster competition. From what I hear it seems to be pretty loosey goosey in terms of the "research" you actually do. One of my friends spent a lot of time scanning papers at St Mikes, but it did get better after a few weeks. He also consistently left at like 2pm instead of 5pm cause there was nothing left to do and the supervisor allowed him to leave. You can't really expect them to teach you much in 4 months to do anything substantial, hence why I am having a very hard time seeing the value of spending 4 months in a program such as this.

 

It seems like research is something every premed seems to have right now... having this on your sketch doesn't seem to really make you stand out anymore. Of course if you could get a pub out of it it would be different, but that's unlikely. I admit that honestly the only reason why I even applied last year was because everyone seemed to be gunning for random "research" positions, not because I really wanted to.

 

Its true, i had a research position last summer, it was paid, but it ended up being grunt work more than research. I did get to "see patients" but again they often run out of things for you to do. Aim for summer projects that have something at the end like a poster presentation that way they have to teach you something and get you involved on the team rather than just make you check data or something.