Guest nubar89 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 Shutterbug, You forgot to mention the largest cost of all: the blood of innocent civilians, and misguided soldiers. NBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 I disagree, though I wish I could disagree with you more, Sil. With the US's recent belligerent foreign policy, the deaths this war will cause, CNN's BS reporting,* and all the BS the US uses to cover up some of their more nefarious acts (ie the murder of Salvador Allende) it's easy to forget some of the stuff Saddam has done - stuff not made up by the American Military or CNN. Gassing the Iraqi Kurds in 1988 - was that a fabrication of CNN? Unlikely, as he was an American ally then. It's also unlikely CNN made up the details of how he arose to power - the rival political leaders he had executed, etc. Neither are the palaces he built, (while his populace starved under UN sanctions) the fact he has images of himself erected all over the country, (a minor offence, but indicative of a megalomaniac and it leads me to believe a lot of the other stuff is true) or the way he's treating the current POWs and treated the POWs during the Gulf War (which IS a violation of the Geneva convention, and while the Americans may not be ideal in their respect for this convention with Guantanomo Bay, they don't treat POWs the way Saddam does.) I highly doubt there won't be at least some change for the better. The sad thing, is I partly do agree with you. While I think there will be a change for the better, I don't think there will be MUCH change for the better. Quite likely, you'll see another Afghanistan with the Kurds and Shiites vying for power, with the Sunni minority (that is currently in power) potentially suffering or worrying about suffering retributions for their years of power under Saddam, or at least something to that effect. Nor would I be surprised to see a number of US oil companies (whose CEOs are either friends of Bush or financiers of the 2000 presidential campaign) "step in to help the Iraqis in their times of trouble by buying their oil". . . not mentioning the cut-rate prices they secure. Of course that is all speculation. * I just, not 5 minutes ago, heard Aaron Brown criticize Al Jazeera for broadcasting the tapes the Iraqis made of the POWs. Yes, they were disturbing - I saw them on CANADIAN television. But Aaron Brown went so far as to say something to the effect of "these were the most disturbing images I've ever seen." What about the footage of dead Iraqi soldiers CNN has shown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hmsdread Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 Does it strike anyone else as a tiny bit hypocritical... how can the US government/media be so horrified by Iraqis showing US POWs, yet so easily show Baghdad being bombed?? I'm surprised their isn't a live webcam of Baghdad on some website out there. I realize that showing individuals' faces is a little different, and I also agree that they *shouldn't* be showing these prisoners on TV... but are the faceless people dying in Baghdad any less deserving of this same respect, or are we allowed to watch their city be demolished on some sort of moral high ground? hmsdread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 UWOMED2005, hmsdread, I agree...CNN has also shown pictures of Iraqi POWs as well...faces and all...and as hmsdread points out...what about the bombing of Baghdad? I guess I also don't see the difference. How could the US think like this? Perhaps because they believe they are "liberating", "helping" the Iraqis and that they treat their POWs "well" ...maybe this perspective makes them believe their intent is different and therefore the act is different in some way...I don't know...I think these scenes are real and eye-opening...they do bring home the grimness and horror of war...perhaps seeing some of this stuff actually will make people think about what this war will actually achieve...or not... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nubar89 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 After reading all of the postings on this issue, most of which are thoughtfull and well argued, I thought you may like to here the opinion of someone who has been directly impacted by Sadam Husayn. In 1981, my parents and I immigrated to Canada from Iran, fleeing from the horrors of the Iran-Iraq war. My father's hometown of Abadan, which is an oil-rich southern city, was the first to be be attacked by Saddam's bombs. Some of my earliest memories of childhood include tanks roling down the city streets, and the windows of our house exploding from the blast of a bomb 1 mile away. I was truely fortunate to be able to come to Canada, but approximately 1.2 million Iraqis and Iranians, including our friends and family, were not as lucky (they were killed). In fact, a Kurdish friend of mine watched in horror as his father was shot point-blank in the head by an Iraqi soldier (he was 4 years old). The point I am trying to make is that it is easy to form an opinion about Iraq from the comfort of your couch as you watch a sanitized version of the truth on TV. Also, we are all truely fortunate to have the luxury to freely debate these issues. The truth is that the largest price of the "hunt for Saddam" will be paid by civilians in the region. Thus I think its reprehensable for anybody to use economic arguments for or against the invasion. The primary focus in this disastor should be the human element, and monetary issues, although they eventually effect the same civilians, are as far as I concerned, secondary to the humanitarian crisis that will follow the bombs. NBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 nubar, Thank you for bringing this chilling perspective to the forum. It IS impossible for most of us to even come close to understanding what it would be like to live in this type of fear...we have had, relatively speaking, very easy and sheltered lives compared with those from many other parts of the world. I am horrified by this war...or any other for that matter...the savage aggression of one human against another...regardless of the side...is very sad and, in my personal opinion, a sad statement about mankind...surely we should be able to settle things without blowing the @#%$ out of one another. I'm also very saddened by the human suffering caused directly by war...and by governments oppressing and abusing their populace... Anyway, thanks again for bringing your experiences to this forum for all of us to share. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nubar89 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 Peter, I am glad that my comments were well received by you. It took me a couple of days to decide whether it would be appropriate to discuss my experiences on the forum. It is, as you say, a sad situation, and I feel that my childhood experiences in Iran, and my immigration to Canada have largely shaped my resolve to be a physician. You see, I too get frustrated, and sometimes feel a little helpless when I see such horid events unfolding. I times like this, I am comforted by the fact that, although I can't stop Saddam or Bush or any other world leader from making tragic decisions, I can make a positive impact in the lives of individuals whom I encounter on a daily basis. NBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 Wow. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bad hombre Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 These links may not be on for very long, but if for some reasone you don't believe that American media is biased, compare the main headline in cbc.ca vs. cnn.com at 7:30 am on the 26th of March: www.cbc.ca/ www.cnn.com/ :rolleyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Just in case people don't get to the link before it changes: CBC: "14 dead in air strike on Baghdad market" CNN: "End of war's first week brings tough battles" No mention of the civilian deaths anywhere on the front webpage for CNN, though they did feel the loss of two tanks (no casualties - the crews were recovered) was worthy of front page. For a more reliable account of civilian casualties in the war, check this link: www.iraqbodycount.net/ It's a group dedicated to keeping an independent tab on the civilian casualties of this war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sally2001 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 FYI: ericblumrich.com/antiwar2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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