McMaster vs Ottawa

[PassingTheTime]

Has anyone else had to choose between these two schools? They're both so different but each have some really strong pros.

 

I know choosing a med school is a personal decision but I feel so lost - how do I know which school would be best for me?

 

Advice from people who have been in this position before would be greatly appreciated - I feel so torn!

[honeywell12]

Congrats! CaRMs match rates are fairly standard across the board in Ontario. All Ontario schools are fantastic and you'll get a good education regardless of where you go. I really think it comes down to personal factors.

 

a) What city do you want to live in for the next 3-4 years?

Compare the costs of living in different cities. Also, consider the cost of an extra year of medical school.

c) Proximity to family and friends

d) Compatibility between your learning style and the school's teaching style

 

I made my medical school decision based on many of these factors but they might not be relevant to you. If you have any specific concerns or questions about Mac I'll be happy to answer those! Good luck!

[Tdot2014]

Before hearing any decisions, Ottawa was my second choice below U of T for a few reasons:

 

1. The program has a great mix of lecture and PBL, therefore having some educational guidance in lecture and also the PBL opportunity to develop collaboration and critical thinking skills.

 

2. Having summers off allows you to make more connections and explore research opportunities in different specialties and even outside of Ottawa to make you more competitive for residency. I know it is possible to explore research opportunities in addition to your class schedule, but I myself would prefer to spend my extra time shadowing to find the specialty that best suits me

 

3. Ottawa is the capital of Canada and an awesome city to live in!

 

4. Matches slightly better than Mac

 

Hope this helps!

[chanman82]

Are the matching rates for 2014 published?

[penguin92]

^ likely come out later in the summer. Mac had a VERY successful match this year, heard Ottawa had a really good one too

[aani]

I had to make this decision 2 years ago, so feel free to PM me with specific questions and I'll get back to you .

 

Mac had an amazing match rate this year- I have heard numbers like 98% floating around.

[lgr]

We had only 5 go unmatched in the first iteration. 3 of them then matched in the second iteration to their original first choice specialty (including one in a ROAD specialty). That means a match rate of 97.5% after the first iteration and 98.5% after the second.

[jdoc18]

OP, do you like problem-based-learning? Mac having a 3 year program is a big plus in my opinion. Aside from saving a year of your life, Mac is also cheaper overall since you're paying for 3 years, not 4 (not sure whether or not cost is a big issue for you). Both schools have comparable match rates.

[oops_letstryagain]

If you're not certain what field you want to go into, or you want to explore a bit more, the 4 year program is a good option to take more time. At Mac you rank your clerkship streams in March of your first year, by which point you'll need to have a good sense of whether you're surgery vs. medicine vs. subspeciality vs. family.

 

Both are great programs, but here at Mac I definitely felt like 3 years was too short given that I came in unsure of what I wanted to apply to.

[paintedveil]

If you're not certain what field you want to go into, or you want to explore a bit more, the 4 year program is a good option to take more time. At Mac you rank your clerkship streams in March of your first year, by which point you'll need to have a good sense of whether you're surgery vs. medicine vs. subspeciality vs. family.

 

Both are great programs, but here at Mac I definitely felt like 3 years was too short given that I came in unsure of what I wanted to apply to.

 

Some people in the program do feel that 3 years may be short in deciding on a specialty, and another year is a significant amount of time to have. However, I think as long as you keep in mind that the program is shorter and start organizing horizontal electives (observerships), it gives you a pretty good idea of what interests you more, and can help orient you that way. Personally I came into the program undecided, but have now found a specialty of interest, largely because of exposure from the horizontal electives, and I probably would've ended up in the same place even with an extra year.

[mountainaxe46]

OP, do you like problem-based-learning? Mac having a 3 year program is a big plus in my opinion. Aside from saving a year of your life, Mac is also cheaper overall since you're paying for 3 years, not 4 (not sure whether or not cost is a big issue for you). Both schools have comparable match rates.

 

I have no bone in this fight, but it's a bit unclear whether McMaster is an actual bargain. They charge about 25K/year whereas U of T charges about 20K.. In the end, there is a saving of about 5K. Is that enough of an influence to change your mind?

[thestar10]

I have no bone in this fight, but it's a bit unclear whether McMaster is an actual bargain. They charge about 25K/year whereas U of T charges about 20K.. In the end, there is a saving of about 5K. Is that enough of an influence to change your mind?

 

It is. I believe there used to be a bigger gap in tuition however it has shrunken comparatively

 

McMaster University $24,801 x3 =74412

University of Toronto $21,703 x4 = 86812

Western University $20,132 x4 = 80528

University of Ottawa $21,977 x4 =87908

Northern Ontario School of Medicine $20,242 x4 = 80968

Queen’s University $22,324 x4 = 89296

Source: http://omsbf.oma.org/student/factsheet.htm

 

This combined with saving a year of living expenses which for most people would easily be 12,000-14,000 has Mac being almost 20000 cheaper than other schools. And you get to work a year earlier.

 

Obviously it changes depending on lifestyle and you could make money if you worked during the summers but it is still the theoretically cheapest.

[jdoc18]

I agree with LabGopher above! Mac is basically at least $20,000 cheaper than Ottawa. And it's a 3 year program! So you can start working a year earlier, as already mentioned.

[Tdot2014]

The $20 000 is definitely appealing. But at the end of the day, you're going to be a doctor and money won't be a problem. Do what is best for your career. And if the money is a factor, getting accepted to a more competitive specialty may mean making that $20 000 back plus some!

[Aetherus]

Something else to consider is that you pretty much need a car at Mac from what I hear as opposed to Ottawa, which you can do everything by bus. So the 20 000$ difference is less since you need to pay for gas, insurance as well as buying the car.

[thestar10]

Something else to consider is that you pretty much need a car at Mac from what I hear as opposed to Ottawa, which you can do everything by bus. So the 20 000$ difference is less since you need to pay for gas, insurance as well as buying the car.

 

This is true although I don't know a clerk at any school who doesn't have a car. I know there are some but it is still very uncommon. What that equates too is a year of gas, insurance and a year of wear on the car and you don't need one in preclerkship here it just makes life easier like i'm sure it does at every other university.

 

I know that finance gets tossed around as a way of deciding but the financial means are available to go anywhere and at the end of it all, is happiness really worth a 20,000 difference? I don't think so.

[Sarvish]

I agree with LabGopher above! Mac is basically at least $20,000 cheaper than Ottawa. And it's a 3 year program! So you can start working a year earlier, as already mentioned.

 

Sounds like someone's on the Ottawa waitlist I'm going to avoid sticking my opinion in here for that exact reason, I obviously want you to choose Ottawa so I'm biased.

[Savac]

Sounds like someone's on the Ottawa waitlist I'm going to avoid sticking my opinion in here for that exact reason, I obviously want you to choose Ottawa so I'm biased.

 

Ok, I'll comment as someone that's unbiased.

 

I received interviews last year to Ottawa and McMaster. My first choice was unquestionably Ottawa! I haven't read the other replies so I might be repeating a few things. Sorry for that. Anyway, here's my reasons:

• I'm not sure if you're into the whole French thing at Ottawa, but for me it was a huge plus. I don't even speak it, but I've always wanted a reason to learn it
  
• They have a professional NHL team. Hamilton does have an AHL team though, and it's the farm team for the Habs (I've seen a bunch of Bulldog games, and it's fun to see the Montreal prospects)
  
• The curriculum has a better balance of lectures and CBL
  
• Summers!
  
• If you're like me and feel that you would take longer to decide on the specialty that you need, the extra year is a huge plus!
  
• WAY nicer city
  
• More tests! Yes, this is a plus to me. Test suck, but McMaster simply doesn't have enough of them for my liking
  
• The class seems a lot tighter with one another
  

 

 

That's all I can think of right now, but I definitely have more reasons. Anyway, these are my own opinions. I'm not saying that McMaster is a bad school, it's just not the right school for me. For some people, it's probably the best program out there.

[jdoc18]

Sounds like someone's on the Ottawa waitlist I'm going to avoid sticking my opinion in here for that exact reason, I obviously want you to choose Ottawa so I'm biased.

If I had the luxury of choosing between the two schools, I would choose Mac for the lower cost and the fact that I would be saving a year and can start working, etc. Unfortunately, I got rejected from Mac.

[mac2016]

It is. I believe there used to be a bigger gap in tuition however it has shrunken comparatively

 

McMaster University $24,801 x3 =74412

University of Toronto $21,703 x4 = 86812

Western University $20,132 x4 = 80528

University of Ottawa $21,977 x4 =87908

Northern Ontario School of Medicine $20,242 x4 = 80968

Queen’s University $22,324 x4 = 89296

Source: http://omsbf.oma.org/student/factsheet.htm

 

This combined with saving a year of living expenses which for most people would easily be 12,000-14,000 has Mac being almost 20000 cheaper than other schools. And you get to work a year earlier.

 

Obviously it changes depending on lifestyle and you could make money if you worked during the summers but it is still the theoretically cheapest.

 

So I compared the costs for Mac and UofT last year and it was more than just tuition that I was thinking about.

 

Difference in tuition is $12400. Then, the cheapest apartment I could find in downtown Toronto was $800. In comparison, I pay $440 at Mac. So add that up and over the course of medical school, that was a difference of $22560.

 

So just tuition and living would have been an extra $35000. I am not even counting the opportunity cost of finishing a year later.

 

Depending on your situation, this cost difference may or may not be significant for you. For me, it was!

[ADH]

A full analysis of the financial benefits of Mac's 3-year program compared to a 4-year program should include the additional year of salary before retirement; with that in mind, Mac's program is a much better deal financially.

[Leon]

Two points:

 

1) I would strongly caution against allowing cost to play a big role here. Looking at where your career is headed, finances will almost certainly never be an issue. A 20K difference, while seemingly massive at the moment, should not compromise the whole bunch of other factors that you should be considering when choosing schools. Teaching style is a MASSIVE thing to consider, as is location, accessibility to transit etc

 

2) I have heard reports that Mac and Calgary's 3 yr MD programs are not recognized by US schools for residency and/or fellowship. Could any current students comment on this? I have no idea if it's true or not and it seems ridiculous that something like this would be true but I was told the reason was the length of the problem. Anyone confirm this?

[5th time the charm]

One of my mac classmates did IM residency at John Hopkins

Another mac grad after finishing residency in gen surg at u of t did a fellowship in Philadelphia

[Pagan]

Mac is recognized by the LCME. I don't know if hospitals are allowed to ignore this for residencies and fellowships.

 

http://www.lcme.org/directory.htm#canadian-programs

[321izme]

Ok, I'll comment as someone that's unbiased.

 

I received interviews last year to Ottawa and McMaster. My first choice was unquestionably Ottawa! I haven't read the other replies so I might be repeating a few things. Sorry for that. Anyway, here's my reasons:

• I'm not sure if you're into the whole French thing at Ottawa, but for me it was a huge plus. I don't even speak it, but I've always wanted a reason to learn it
  
• They have a professional NHL team. Hamilton does have an AHL team though, and it's the farm team for the Habs (I've seen a bunch of Bulldog games, and it's fun to see the Montreal prospects)
  
• The curriculum has a better balance of lectures and CBL
  
• Summers!
  
• If you're like me and feel that you would take longer to decide on the specialty that you need, the extra year is a huge plus!
  
• WAY nicer city
  
• More tests! Yes, this is a plus to me. Test suck, but McMaster simply doesn't have enough of them for my liking
  
• The class seems a lot tighter with one another
  

 

1. On specialty choosing: Mac allows you to do these things called "horizontal electives" where you basically ask to follow around a doc in pretty much any specialty for 1-2 days (or even 1 day/week for a few months) -- there is also PLENTY of time to do these "horizontal electives". The great thing is you don't just "follow/shadow" them, most of the time they'll let you do some awesome stuff. E.g. You can do an ER shift (I recently did a night shift), ask the doc or resident if you can do the history and physical for a few patients, they'll then ask you to present the case and if the case is something on the simpler side, they will ask you what you would do for the patient. It's so much fun and all the docs/residents are EXTREMELY nice. Plus, this is pretty much the best way to see the bread and butter of each specialty and decide if you like it. Often, it doesn't take >2 days to figure out if you like or dislike something.

 

2. Tests: Mac has 1 hr tests approximately every 2 weeks which consist of 4-6 short-answer q's. They're stress free tests that are just meant to see if you've understood the stuff you were supposed to in the last 2 weeks. There's approximately 1 bell ringer every month, which is not very stressful as the mark doesn't matter. There's a PPI, which has 180 MCQs to be written every 4 months-ish - everyone in the program including 1st, 2nd and 3rd yrs write the exact same test - again just to see if the whole class is doing well and if you're lagging behind the rest of your class. It also lets you see how your knowledge improved over the years. Personally I don't find having more tests would help, everyone is pretty motivated to continuously make themselves better.