Guest bcdentalgirl Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 Hi guys, I was thinking about this after seeing a story on the perceived dangers of providing abortions (ie. getting murdered by a fanatic). I'm curious as to how premed/med students feel about this issue. In general, do doctors (or the medical community at large) have a moral obligation to provide services for which they were trained if in providing those services their lives could be put in danger? This of course could be expanded into issues such as providing any type of medical service in adverse situations (war, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shutterbug Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 I think the moral issue is really up to you: whether to provide care or not. But, in a non-emergency situation I don't see how you can be legally forced to provide a service - even if you are fully capable of doing it. I've never heard of such a case. As for abortions and the fanatical baggage that goes along with it: I think that the fanatical-incident to number-of-abortions-performed ratio is overblown. There are the few tragic instances (such as sniper assasinations) which are constantly reported on. The perception is then that there has been an increase in violence against abortion providers. That said, you will NEVER be able to escape the pro-life influence/dilema. This is something you have to consider before you go into OBGYN and/or decide to perform abortions. You also have to consider how it will affect your personal life, family, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 Actually, I got a related question in my interview at U of T. It sort of went along the lines of "how would you feel if you were working in an abortion clinic and there were a bunch of protesters outside?" My view was that I wouldn't be really affected my the protesters' activity, but I would be concerned for my patients. I think it takes a lot of courage to make the decision to have an abortion and I don't think that the women who choose this should be made to feel like they're doing something wrong. On other note: I don't think doctors have an obligation to perform abortions if they deem abortion morally wrong--the doctor has a right to protect their integrity. I'm not sure about safety issues though.... I would think that the doctor has a choice regarding what types of services they provide, however, that being said, I think the chances of being murdered by a fanatic are very very slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest not rex morgan Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 I have worked in an office of an abortion provider. If you think these threats are not real, speak loudly, the bulletproof glass dampens noise. Abortion providers do have to take several steps to ensure their safety. I have a real problem with the supposed low kill:abortion ratio. You don't get fanatical sniper attacks if you're a cardiothoracic surgeon. The "it's not so bad" attitude substantially underestimates the percieved threat that is lived with on a daily basis. No docs are not obligated to provide abortions, and in fact, it is not something most docs are trained to do. You can go through an entire obs/gyne residency and never learn how one is done. It is training you have to opt into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Thanks not rex morgan for that bit of insight on working in an abortion clinic--I honestly had no idea that things were THAT bad. It makes me re-think how comfortable I'd feel working in an abortion clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Yes, a number of my profs who provide abortions as well have made references to fearing for their own safety. Maybe the number of abortion providers who have actually been killed is low, but for the rest of them the fear is there and they feel it is justified. That being said, I was quite surprised on arriving here at how many vocal and vehement anti-abortionists (I'm against the terms pro-life and pro-choice as I think they're just politically chosen terms used to obscure the issues) there were in our class. It makes for some pretty lively debates in PCL. If you are anti-abortion, don't think this is something you have to hide in your interviews or once in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Hey UWOMED2005 may be you can help me out... I was wondering if you could give me advice, do you think it's okay to separate your feelings on abortion and your duties as a physician? My view going into the interview was that although I wouldn't myself have an abortion, i would perform one because being a physician, it would be part of my job to provide a safe means for women who for some reason feel that they cannot have that child. Now I'm starting to worry that my answer might have sounded conflicting. I guess what I was trying to get across was that I'm not morally opposed to abortion, would perform one if I was trained to, but it's definetly not my preferred career choice. Do you think this answer is sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest not rex morgan Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 You can steer clear of what you would do if you were pregnant for a couple of reasons. One, it is none of their business, and two, oh yeah...it's none of their business. Your answer is not conflicting. You feel abortion is a safe method of providing choice. Good. As for fears of working in a clinic, I'm not saying that you're risking your life daily, walking zig zag to your car in hopes of evading the spray of bullets. There are precautions that need to be taken to ensure safety. This threat is real, but the clinics are safe if the necessary precautions have been taken. I learned alot from my work there and would not discourage anyone from exploring these clinics if they are interested. Even if you don't provide abortions, you will likely be treating women who have had them. Some (few) have complications. Whether or not you are anti-choice, you do have an obligation to provide standard-of-care. Knowing how an abortion works will help you to provide standard of care. FYI, no physicians are not required to perform abortions, however it is incumbent upon them to not allow their views to sway decisions of patients. This is either way. The physician is there to elicit the choice of the patient, and direct her to the proper services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lactic Folly Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 I just heard on the news that a doctor who had been in contact with the family of an 'atypical pneumonia' patient is now showing signs of illness. Do doctors have an obligation to treat if there is some risk to their own health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcdentalgirl Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Lactic folly, this is exactly the kind of parallel I was getting to with my original Q. The idea of a sense of moral obligation vs. self-preservation, legalaties aside. Thanks for clarifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Heya, Do doctors have an obligation to treat if there is some risk to their own health?Why not start a new thread with this as a topic? It's not really the same thing as providing abortions, and probably deserves its own thread. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Hi guys, Regarding the abortion scenario, I've been working in a clinic for a number of years now where, although abortions are not our primary function, we do provide them. As such, there is a fairly high amount of security on the premises, e.g., undercover security, electronic door locks. It's a fine line to walk when you are trying to provide certain services for some clients that contravene the beliefs of others. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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