Guest Chieka Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Just wondering if anyone else have parents that are feeling the ups and downs of the application process more than the actual applicant! Here are my experiences: One of my professors sent me a copy of the LOR he wrote for me. My mom insisted on faxing it to a friend, a business partner, and her lawyer. For several days after I found out I got into UCONN, my dad referred to me as Dr. and at random would hold his arm and say, "Oww.. it hurts.... get your stethoscope and check it out for me." I wonder if there are parents out there who are quirkier than my own... Please share. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Seriously weird. Please make sure that YOU are the one that really wants a career in medicine before you register for anything. I know of several med students that were sold on a career in medicine by their parents that are now MISERABLE (and greatly in debt). I personally think that you need to draw a line with your parents. It is fine for them to be proud of you (what parent wouldn't be?) it is another for them to be faxing copies of your reference letters to others. That is really disturbing in my mind and I wonder what exactly your mother's intentions were. Like, if she is just proud of you or if she views it as more of HER accomplishment. I remember hearing the story of one person whose mother was so in love with the idea of them being a doctor, she refused to introduce her to anybody as her daughter or by her name, but insisted on introducing her as Dr. X! Not a good scene. This same person's mother was seriously upset that her daughter wanted to hang her MD degree in her office and not on her mother's living room wall. (Her mother viewed that degree as her own accomplishment). As for your dad, please speak to him now to avoid problems later. If he expects that you are going to be able to 'fix' things for him or acquaintances or to be able offer reliable, relevant medical information as soon as you start school....well that is just not going to happen. It will avoid a lot of stress and uncomfortable situations for you if you make this clear to him now. Especially if it is already making you uncomfortable..... I know that parents get very excited when their offspring are 'successful' and they have every right to be proud. But, YOU need to be in control here. By the time you apply to medicine, you should be functioning as a rational, sane and INDEPENDENT adult. You need to make your own choices and your own career decisions. Do not do this because it will make your parents happy or it is 'expected' of you. Don't let it become your parents' accomplishment. It's not. YOU worked for this! I personally find your story a bit disturbing, but it is hard to know the whole situation from your post. It kind of reminds me of the parents that have been calling the admissions office at UWO and SCREAMING obscenities at the staff, demanding to speak to the dean and being a general pain in the rear because their kid got a rejection letter. I'm sorry, if you are mature enough to go to med school, you need to be mature enough to tell your parents to back out of your affairs and fight your OWN battles. My two cents - it has turned into a bit of rant and I'm sorry for that...but it is what I believe. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 My parents have also been very excited about my decision to apply to medicine and last summer my mom told my cousin that I was studying medicine (which I was not). Anyway, to make a long story short, I had a LONG talk with her about how she shouldn't exaggerate the truth because it gives me the impression that she's not proud of who I am now, a biochemie. Anyway, that talk ended all future exaggerations on her part, but I know she was overwhelmed with pride when I told her about my interviews (even going as far as telling her family doctor about my interview). I think this behaviour is pretty normal as long as you keep your parents "in check". For instance, I don't let my parents know "all" the little details and I certainly don't let them have the phone numbers of the admission's offices. (just in case) Chieka, I think your parents are going a little overboard, especially in regards to the reference letter. May be you shouldn't give them access to things like that. I'm sure you're applying for your own reasons, but make sure your parents don't pressure you into anything. Oh...by the way...congrats on the U of T interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chieka Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Hmmm... this is not quite the response I expected. Aneliz, I understand your concern. I do believe that some parents try to live vicariously through their children, but I am blessed not to have to face such a situation. My parents are very supportive of whatever I do, as long as I do it well and as long as I'm happy with it. I just thought other people may have had some interesting experiences to share. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 My folks tried to talk me out of a career in medicine. They suggested that going into computers would be a far better job; less stress, regular hours, probably as good, or better money, and the opportunity to work and travel simultaneously. I can definitely understand aneliz's point of view. There's an awful lot of people out there who are going after a career in medicine without a really good understanding of what such a profession really entails. While I don't think anyone can really have a good grasp of what medicine is like without living it during medical school (stressing out studying for huge finals, getting paged awake at all hours of the night or working 30 hour shifts, seeing the whole spectrum of human emotions in a single night, seeing someone die in front of you despite your best efforts, etc), I'm still stunned by the number of people who have this neat and tidy idealized illusion of what medicine really is. I'm talking about folks who want to be cardiac surgeons who've never shadowed a surgeon in clinic, nor stepped into an operating room, people who apply to, and get accepted into medical school without any previous volunteering or exposure to clinical medicine, etc. You probably know of people like this. Parental influence should not be a reason for you to go to medical school. If it's something you want independently for yourself, then go out there and work to become a doctor. Otherwise, you are potentially setting yourself up for a lot of unhappiness if you discover that your heart is not within this profession. It is definitely too much work, and requires too much committment if you don't really want it for yourself. Chieka, sounds like your parents are pretty proud of your accomplishments, and that's totally cool. I think I'd be pretty proud if any kid of mine ended up fulfilling his/her dream, especially if it was one that took a hell of a lot of work, and a lot of character-building along the way. With that said, faxing around a reference letter to "show the folks" is a little over the top! If they go this nuts over a reference letter, you might want to condition down them slowly over the next four years for when you get your MD certificate... Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Lol Chieka. Is this inspired by the thread on SDN? [ Background for people who don't know about the American application process - you first need to submit an AMCAS primary, which is a little like OMSAS, where you select all the schools that you want to apply to, submit your transcripts, etc. Then you submit "secondary" applications to each school, which is more of a "real" application, with LOR's, etc ] Here's a story about my parents: I submitted an AMCAS primary, but then, for various reasons, didn't submit ANY secondaries. So now I'm getting "rejections" from all the schools that I didn't really apply to. But when my mother sees a letter from Harvard or wherever come in the mail, she gets really excited. I keep telling her that I didn't really apply, but she doesn't believe me.... "Mom, they can't possibly accept me. I didn't hand in the applications" "But Peachy, they probably like you so much, that they're going to accept you anyways! Or at least invite you to an interview!". "MOM!!!" :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Peachy, that's a hilarious story, sounds a lot like my mom. Last year she asked me if I got any news from any medical schools and I was a little astonished because I hadn't applied to any. "Ummm....Mom...why would I hear from a medical school? I haven't even submitted an application!" She doesn't really know about how these things work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 The LMCC says you're a doc once you've finished stage 2 in the second year of your residency. The University you attend says you're a doc once you've finished their degree requirements and 3 or 4 years. Your family and friends say you're a doc 2 minutes after you get your interview acceptance... Some of family's concerns and such are in jest. At least I hope they are. But two things come up from that that take all the fun out of it. One: you've got just as much common sense as you did 5 minutes ago, and a bit more confidence now you've succeeded in snagging an interview (congrats!). Two: in the long run, once you're in, treating your own family is a quagmire of ethical and boundary issues. Alright. Sorry about a step into the no fun zone. My parents tried mighty hard to convince me of the difficulties of being a doc, and persuaded me to try my hand at other things. (My dad's a doc, mom was a nurse.) An MBA would be the capper right now---but I have decided for quite a while that medicine is what I want to do. They've come around and are extremely supportive, which is what most families will do. Behind the joking comments about treating their aches and pains is a little pride and a lot of love. And the next time someone asks for gratis or joking medical advice, you can always reply in kind..."well, I'd have to do a rectal (or some other minor invasive procedure) to rule that out, and I need the practice..." :lol Good luck with the interview! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orangelifesaver Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 i know what you mean Chieka my dad always makes this joke about being my first patient! -and you know what, by the time i'm done he may as well be my first patient:rollin as for my mum, she doesn't call me doc or anything which is good cuz she keeps me pretty grounded!:lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chieka Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Yes peachy, this is inspired by the SDN thread... Just thought we could use some humour to combat the anxiety caused by the next stage of waiting. To Ian and other posters who expressed very legitimate concerns, not too worry. There is absolutely no pressure from the parental units regarding my career choices. I've thought long and hard about medicine, and I am 100% sure it's what I want to do. I do admit that my parents' behaviour is "over the top," though - that's why I posted it! C. P.S. to Crackers: I'm going to use your line about the invasive procedure. :lol :lol :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hmsdread Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Ah, my good old parents.... I pick up bartending shifts at a local banquet hall in the summers - wedding receptions and the like. Last summer, on THREE (3) separate occasions I was bartending, and someone I didn't know would come up to me and say - "Hey, you're Harold's son, right??" "Uhm, yes... would you like a drink?" "I hear you're going to be a doctor." "Uhmmm... yes.. would you like a drink?" This is just a rough estimate, but I'd say my dad single handedly informed over 200 people of my acceptance to Western. (He knows a lot of people). As for my mom... oh boy... a retired kindergarten teacher who now works part time at Sears... well, I was in the mall one day and decided to pop in and say hi. The entire Homewares department knew I was going to Western. Just tip of the iceberg stuff here, folks...I had to convince one of my uncles I didn't have the power to prescribe him any drugs BEFORE starting med school (didn't even want to get into the ethics of it, I just told him he'd have to wait 4 years, and he was so disappointed...). I totally know where you're coming from Chieka, but Aneliz also has a decent point. Make sure you're doing meds for you, not your parents. Its embarrassing to have people you don't know congratulate you, but it also brings a smile to my face to know that my parents are so proud of me they're willing to carpet bomb everyone they see with "he's gonna be a doctor!". But medicine is MY goal, MY decision, and MY life. And they would be just as proud of me if I dropped out and did something else. As long as you know that, then just put on a smile when the embarrassing stuff comes up, and thank your lucky stars you have parents that are proud of you and interested in the things you do - so many people can't say the same thing. hmsdread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nightrider Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 In my family, it is kind of funny, because I've wanted to be a doctor as long as I can remember, and my younger sister is currently a Mac nursing student. My parents are still scratching their heads. They are as proud as can be, and extremely supportive, but we've never really had any medical people in the family, so they've always wondered where our interest came from. I am so grateful to have my parents to support me through this application process...they have been SO supportive, and always there to listen when I need to talk/vent. They've put up so well with all my obsessing. I can relate to some other stories, though. My dentist has taken an interest in my med school application adventures, due in part to my mom talking about it (not that I mind at all though...feels great to know that she is proud of me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sil Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 I have known that I wanted to be a doc since I was 13. The first time that I told my parents about it they just gave me the blank stare and did not believe me. But after about 3 years of talking about it they started to finally believe me. My father (who is a surgeon) has been telling people that I was in med school for the past 3 years !!!! Once I got in, my mom informed the entire world. Well, here it is mrs, those tomatoes are $2, her reply? Here are the $2 but did I already tell you that my daughter is going to be a doctor? I don't think that my parents put any pressure on me to go into medicine but now that I am here they are certainly happy and proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yeah, this is going to be awful, but I had to cut my Mom off from (most of) my stories of from med school - I was worried she was starting to live vicariously through me. She kept asking me if I've seen yet stuff she'd seen on ER. . . I think I might just have to write NBC to see if they'll cancel that show - it causes me so many problems. But seriously, with a parent who was more than happy to see me go into medicine, I made DAMN sure that this was something I wanted, not my parents. I've heard a number of stories from residents and upper year students about people who get to that stage to realize they're pursuing their parents dreams, medicine is a lot of work, DEFINITELY NOT all roses, and they've just wasted years of their life pursuing a career they hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think that this thread has sparked a really worthwhile discussion... Chieka, I did not mean to imply that you were necessarily not acting for yourself...I merely brought it up because I think that it is important for ALL applicants to think about what their motivations are...there are far too many people that are aiming for a career in medicine because it is culturally expected of them or they mentioned it in passing as a possibility once and their parents are pushing for it or their parents see it as the pinacle of achievement and will settle for nothing less....These people often do not have a real firm grasp on what they are getting themselves into and it is extremely hard for them to get themselves back out of this mess once they are in med school....not only because of the debt load but because of the pressure from their family. Parents are funny creatures. They can be extremely proud of you and do some crazy things because they are so proud of you (like telling everybody that will listen that you got in) but they can also do crazy things and push you to act in certain ways so that they CAN be extremely proud of you. See the difference here? Medicine has a certain status to it....but it is not the be all and end all of achievement in life....it is not the defining accomplishment that proves intelligence, integrity or personal worth....it is a demanding career that you need to make a firm commitment to doing because YOU want to....and nobody else can make this commitment for you. If your heart isn't in it because YOU want it, then you aren't going to be happy. I think that your parents and (from the stories I've gotten from the admissions office lately) many parents are a bit over the top when it comes to med school. My point was that by the time you apply to med school you need to be independent enough to decide for yourself that this is what you want, get through the application process without your parents' excessive involvement (ie no parents calling admissions to complain on your behalf) and you while you should share your good news with your parents, they shouldn't have access to every last detail and especially things that are personal (like LOR) and they certainly shouldn't be faxing them to others. While your parents have every right to be proud of your accomplishments they should not be deriving personal benefit and status from 'sharing' your accomplishment with others. There is a difference between sharing your good news with others for your benefit and sharing your accomplishments with others for THEIR benefit. (Status, prestige, etc) There are too many people that fall into the latter category....parents in love with idea of having a child that is doctor and convinced child that med school was it, child worked hard, got in, is now miserable in med...parents don't care because child is going to be a doctor....having child that is a doctor = tangible proof of ultimate success as a parent. That was my point. My other point is, that if you are truly mature enough to go to medical school, you should be mature enough to tell parents that are 'over the top' to back off in a calm, respectful and diplomatic manner. And, if they were acting in an 'over the top' manner purely from their enthusiasm for you (and not for their own benefit) then they should understand your point and back off. And, as an aside - I personally think that faxing the LOR to other people is more then over the top and is also an outright violation of the privacy and confidence of the person that wrote the reference. LOR are confidential - written by the referee directly to the ad comm. If your referee decided to share the LOR with you....that is their perogative as author of the letter but I imagine it was shared with the intention that you would be the only person to see it. If you then showed it to your mom, okay, a bit of a violation of confidentiality but within reason in my opinion...and that is where it should have stopped. Sending it to various other people was, I'm pretty sure, NOT what your referee had in mind. The world is remarkably small sometimes...and it is surprising where and how fast information can travel. If I was the referee, I would not be impressed to find that somebody else that really had no business with the confidential letter that I had written had it....the same as I wouldn't be impressed as a referee to read a copy of the letter published in the local newspaper, or turned into a poster and plastered on the walls....which is basically the same thing as faxing it out. I only point this out because should this 'distribution' of the letter by your mom get back to your referee, it may hurt your chances of getting a second reference letter in the future. I know it certainly would if I was the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest me maniac Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 aneliz, I think you are reading waaaaaay too much into what Chieka wrote.... I do not mean to be rude, but lighten up! Parents are parents, I think Chieka was just having a good chuckle over hers/his, as we all do from time to time. me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 better to have a more fruitful discussion and cover all the possibilities---I wouldn't have thought this discussion would go this way, but it's some valuable insight into the behaviours of med students, their parents, and when to let go of the umbilical cord on both sides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 Sorry if I offended any of you...but this was meant to provide an alternate viewpoint....where the actions/intentions of parents may not necessarily be all that beneficial and may actually be a serious problem. I posted it only because the incidence of such 'problem' parents seems to be steadily increasing....the UWO admissions office has had more rude, demanding and outright abusive calls/e-mails from applicants' parents in the last month then they have ever had in the past. Seems to be a disturbing trend..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Forget about my parents. I've been practising on my two year old with her pretend medical kit ever since I got the news of an interview:lol Dr. Dad at your service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 LOL Macdaddyeh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Aneliz makes an excellent point. Truth is, when you get in no matter what you're reasons for applying your parents will probably be proud, unless they're both in the same career and wanted you to follow in their foot steps. But that being said, I have met both med students and residents who went into medicine essentially because their parents pushed them. To be blunt, that's tragic. This is a great career, but it's no bed of roses. And if you find out you don't like it. . . yikes! Because with today's tuition rates, once you've been in med school for a a few years, you're essentially trapped. My debt after first year was well over $30,000, and now it's already crept up to $60,000 and I'm not quite finished second year. My best guess is I'll be sliding into homeplate with my name on a bank ledger for $125-$150,000. Yikes! I will be able to pay that off. . . only so long as I finish and practice medicine. I can't see any careers I could get myself into at this stage that would give me enough money to pay the interest on that lump, let alone the principle. If I find I really couldn't stand the career (whether I initially applied because of parental influence, $$ or other reasons,) to be honest I have NO clue what I'll do! So when I hear people say they were pushed into medicine by their parents, I get a little nervous. But yeah, it is funny what some parents do when they're proud of their kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Your stories are hysterical... My parents have kept it in check I believe -- although my mother got extremely excited last week when I diagnosed her shingles and sent her off quickly to get some Famcyclovir from the walk-in clinic (there is a short time period when you should start this medicine from the time the shingles break-out in order to make a difference)... She called from her cellphone from the pharmacy after seeing the doctor: "You are going to pass!!" (It is going to take a lot more than knowing shingles when you see it to pass the LMCC!) The funnier part is the lady from down the street - now moved to a local retirement. When she found out I had an interview at Mac, within 30 minutes she had me over to a Doctor she knows from Mac to talk about the programme. I think she cried last week when I told her about my residency match. Within a day, the whole street knew and she doesn't even live on it anymore. I confirmed with my parents that it hadn't come from them! Even worse she keeps saying: "I can't wait for you to be my doctor when I have to go to the emerg at Sunnybrook!" -- I'm a little nervous she'll come in at Death's Door and expect me to cure her (she's quite frail!) as the 1st year resident or something... It will be quite interesting being an emerg resident at the hospital 10 minutes away from the neighbourhood I grew up in... My "story" of changing from Business to medicine is quite well known amongst people... I'm not sure why but I think many people wish they could change their job/career and for a variety of reasons can't. I was very fortunate to have the opportunity to switch and I'm much more content these days... that said I often get comments like: "Oh you have such an inspirational story!" Which is ridiculous -- I was lucky to be in a place in my life that I could switch and had both the family and financial support to do it. Being a physician and a medical student does put you in a different situation.... I have learned to always say: "I'm not a doctor yet!" and know that outside of the hospital I won't allow myself to be refered to as Dr Last Name. It is hard to balance being gracious about others excitement and recognizing that there are many other very rewarding, challenging extremely important careers that deserve just as much recognition... I believe that we can definitely play a role in providing a reality check to our friends and family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mying Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 So, what *I* meant to say, before I accidentally made it so it looked like my fiance said it... Chieka, my dad fits right in with your parents, don't worry. I had a copy sent to me of one of my letters of reference from my first round of applications and he was inches away from framing it (my mom is a hobbyist framer, so we had the stuff to do it on hand). He kept "casting his nets" to drag information out of his friends. He tried to "advise" me every step of the way and while I ditched a lot of his advice outright because it wasn't *me*, his intentions were to help me achieve my goal. For his part, he kept trying to talk me into dentistry, but that didn't stop him from getting even weirder than usual with every step. I was still doing spot work at his office since he was shortstaffed for receptionists, and even his patients all knew my exact stage in the process -- which, in a small town, meant the whole TOWN knew... even the mayor. He drove me absolutely crazy. I was careful to leave him at home when I went to my interviews; his stress level would have put me through the roof. He also tried to open all my med school admissions-related letters before I could. My mother tried to stop him. She was a lot more "normal" about things but now admits to dreaming about running into my high school guidance counsellor someday. I wasn't a particularly stellar student in my early high school years, and there wasn't a lot of encouragement for me to follow any sort of competitive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chieka Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Wow Mying, maybe our parents should get together sometime and talk about their kids' CVs. :rollin I don't have any more stories now, but who knows what craziness will go down between now and September? And don't worry, Aneliz, my parents don't have Western's number (yet) j/k. :lol :lol :lol :lol C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Good to hear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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