Worth Applying To Us Md/do Schools?

[RAPTORS99]

Completed undergrad, been out of school for a year. Canadian schools did not go as planned so I'm now looking to apply to US schools. A little worried about not getting which would result in me wasting another year.

 

Stats: GPA: 3.87 MCAT: 33 (10/11/12)

 

ECs: nothing spectacular: senior thesis, school clubs, medical brigade, service-learning trips, coaching little league, dance teams

 

Is it worth taking the year off again and applying? MD or DO schools? Suggestions?

 

 

[JohnGrisham]

Completed undergrad, been out of school for a year. Canadian schools did not go as planned so I'm now looking to apply to US schools. A little worried about not getting which would result in me wasting another year.

 

Stats: GPA: 3.87 MCAT: 33 (10/11/12)

 

ECs: nothing spectacular: senior thesis, school clubs, medical brigade, service-learning trips, coaching little league, dance teams

 

Is it worth taking the year off again and applying? MD or DO schools? Suggestions?

So you graduated in 2014 correct? 

 

Apply first thing this upcoming May/June 2015 to all Canadian friendly USMD schools  for matriculation summer of 2016( Get MSAR to make your list). If something is a-miss and you aren't getting any USMD interviews, pick a few USDO schools in desirable locations (there are only 10 Canadian friendly ones), and apply to those too - to really have security.

 

Your ECs seem a bit thin, do you have any other leadership roles(I see coaching is one of them) or clinical volunteering(hospitals, care-homes, medical outreach programs)?  Additionally, if you can, it would be useful to get some physician shadowing - but if you can't that's okay. Just beef up your ECs. Even then, i see no reason not to apply. But keep striving to better yourself non-academically.

 

Is there any particular reason you think you would need to take yet another year off before applying? I see no reason you can't apply this upcoming cycle to US schools.

[RAPTORS99]

So you graduated in 2014 correct? 

 

Apply first thing this upcoming May/June 2015 to all Canadian friendly USMD schools  for matriculation summer of 2016( Get MSAR to make your list). If something is a-miss and you aren't getting any USMD interviews, pick a few USDO schools in desirable locations (there are only 10 Canadian friendly ones), and apply to those too - to really have security.

 

Your ECs seem a bit thin, do you have any other leadership roles(I see coaching is one of them) or clinical volunteering(hospitals, care-homes, medical outreach programs)?  Additionally, if you can, it would be useful to get some physician shadowing - but if you can't that's okay. Just beef up your ECs. Even then, i see no reason not to apply. But keep striving to better yourself non-academically.

 

Is there any particular reason you think you would need to take yet another year off before applying? I see no reason you can't apply this upcoming cycle to US schools.

 

Yup, graduated 2014. I worked two jobs during fourth year and also took on a leadership role on campus through which I helped run conferences and set up national conferences as well. Clinical volunteering I do not have. And sorry I meant, applying this upcoming cycle. That is what I was debating, that would put me out of school for 2 years.

[JohnGrisham]

Yup, graduated 2014. I worked two jobs during fourth year and also took on a leadership role on campus through which I helped run conferences and set up national conferences as well. Clinical volunteering I do not have. And sorry I meant, applying this upcoming cycle. That is what I was debating, that would put me out of school for 2 years.

That sounds good - maybe look into getting some clinical volunteering in the mean time, and continue it during the cycle.

 

What is your debate about? The US system runs 1 year in advance, so you have no choice but to wait until the cycle opens again in May/June 2015, for matriculation in summer 2016... there really is no debate, unless your alternative option is to drop medicine all together and pursue a different path?

[OneDoctor]

Completed undergrad, been out of school for a year. Canadian schools did not go as planned so I'm now looking to apply to US schools. A little worried about not getting which would result in me wasting another year.

 

Stats: GPA: 3.87 MCAT: 33 (10/11/12)

 

ECs: nothing spectacular: senior thesis, school clubs, medical brigade, service-learning trips, coaching little league, dance teams

 

Is it worth taking the year off again and applying? MD or DO schools? Suggestions?

 

I think your stats are fine for Canadian schools (McMaster, Queen's...); MCAT wise you are all set for almost all of the schools here, GPA is a bit low, but still I think you stand a good chance. Maybe I'm wrong though...

 

Are you considering US as a backup or you are taking the Canadian schools out of the equation? 

 

Maybe also look into applying this year and starting your masters next year as a back up - I'm sure that also helps open some doors for you

[JohnGrisham]

I think your stats are fine for Canadian schools (McMaster, Queen's...); MCAT wise you are all set for almost all of the schools here, GPA is a bit low, but still I think you stand a good chance. Maybe I'm wrong though...

 

Are you considering US as a backup or you are taking the Canadian schools out of the equation? 

 

Maybe also look into applying this year and starting your masters next year as a back up - I'm sure that also helps open some doors for you

The OP clearly stated that Canadian schools did not go as planned, so they are looking at options in the US.

 

Definitely re-apply to Canada, sometimes its the luck of the draw - my guess is your ECs or written statements didn't stack up compared to the strong pool of applicants. 

 

A masters is not necessary and would be a huge waste of time and $$, unless the OP enjoys research and would want to go in that direction. Doing it solely for the med application would be pretty inefficient use of time/resources.

[OneDoctor]

The OP clearly stated that Canadian schools did not go as planned, so they are looking at options in the US.

 

Definitely re-apply to Canada, sometimes its the luck of the draw - my guess is your ECs or written statements didn't stack up compared to the strong pool of applicants. 

 

A masters is not necessary and would be a huge waste of time and $$, unless the OP enjoys research and would want to go in that direction. Doing it solely for the med application would be pretty inefficient use of time/resources.

 

Yes - the whole point I was trying to make was to look into WHY Canadian schools did not go as planned and work on improving those (it shouldn't be due to GPA/MCAT). If it's ECs or essays, as you pointed out, then OP should work on improving those for next cycle instead of giving up and looking into US. Yes, it's great to have back up plans though and I do encourage OP to look into US as well, while keeping in mind the tuition difference.

 

I think labelling it as a waste of time and money is a bit too extreme. Why do you think a masters degree helps your med application? Maybe it's because medicine involves A LOT of research and that students with masters have a better shot at securing research positions in medical schools (and during residency), something that is of great importance? Yes, if you absolutely hate doing research, then that's a different case, but let's not undervalue a masters degree and research in the field of medicine... Yes, you don't need to be a researcher to be a practicing physician but being involved with research (which automatically includes reviewing literature, attending conferences, networking, etc) does help you become a better physician for the obvious reasons every knows... nevertheless, I'd encourage OP to also look into that option too...

 

..my personal opinion anyways good luck

[JohnGrisham]

Yes - the whole point I was trying to make was to look into WHY Canadian schools did not go as planned and work on improving those (it shouldn't be due to GPA/MCAT). If it's ECs or essays, as you pointed out, then OP should work on improving those for next cycle instead of giving up and looking into US. Yes, it's great to have back up plans though and I do encourage OP to look into US as well, while keeping in mind the tuition difference.

 

I think labelling it as a waste of time and money is a bit too extreme. Why do you think a masters degree helps your med application? Maybe it's because medicine involves A LOT of research and that students with masters have a better shot at securing research positions in medical schools (and during residency), something that is of great importance? Yes, if you absolutely hate doing research, then that's a different case, but let's not undervalue a masters degree and research in the field of medicine... Yes, you don't need to be a researcher to be a practicing physician but being involved with research (which automatically includes reviewing literature, attending conferences, networking, etc) does help you become a better physician for the obvious reasons every knows... nevertheless, I'd encourage OP to also look into that option too...

 

..my personal opinion anyways good luck

Oh for sure, I meant specifically in the case of doing a masters for the sake of doing a masters. So many people just do a masters as they don't know what else to do - which leads to people being unsatisfied with research and doing it for med. I think if you actually enjoy research or find it interesting - then yes, by all means go and do a masters. But don't do it because you didn't get into medicine and want to do it because of some perceived advantage - as it is pretty minimal, especially in the OP's case where they already have strong stats/mcat.

 

My argument is, for many cases, doing a masters won't significantly help your application in itself - so you should only do it if you actually want to do it.  

[OneDoctor]

Oh for sure, I meant specifically in the case of doing a masters for the sake of doing a masters. So many people just do a masters as they don't know what else to do - which leads to people being unsatisfied with research and doing it for med. I think if you actually enjoy research or find it interesting - then yes, by all means go and do a masters. But don't do it because you didn't get into medicine and want to do it because of some perceived advantage - as it is pretty minimal, especially in the OP's case where they already have strong stats/mcat.

 

My argument is, for many cases, doing a masters won't significantly help your application in itself - so you should only do it if you actually want to do it.  

 

Agreed; specially, as you pointed out, it's not the degree per se that helps you but rather how fruitful those 1-2 years of life are in terms of publication, conferences, etc. 

[JohnGrisham]

Agreed; specially, as you pointed out, it's not the degree per se that helps you but rather how fruitful those 1-2 years of life are in terms of publication, conferences, etc. 

Exactly. For the OP, i think there are other ways to improve their app to get their foot in the door - that are more high yield (like beefing up their ECs and work experience), that won't cost them and delay them etc as a masters would.

[OneDoctor]

Exactly. For the OP, i think there are other ways to improve their app to get their foot in the door - that are more high yield (like beefing up their ECs and work experience), that won't cost them and delay them etc as a masters would.

 

I recommended Masters for the year they are waiting to hear back from schools + interviews etc. OP can focus on improving his/her ECs until the application time, apply, and start masters then in case things do go as planned.. A gap year may not be looked upon favourably and a Masters degree opens up many many doors and is a great use of time, granted OP doesn't hate doing research (which I really hope is not the case). As I mentioned, even when you do get into a medical school, having a masters degree opens many doors and makes it relatively easier for you to take on research projects. 

[JohnGrisham]

I recommended Masters for the year they are waiting to hear back from schools + interviews etc. OP can focus on improving his/her ECs until the application time, apply, and start masters then in case things do go as planned.. A gap year may not be looked upon favourably and a Masters degree opens up many many doors and is a great use of time, granted OP doesn't hate doing research (which I really hope is not the case). As I mentioned, even when you do get into a medical school, having a masters degree opens many doors and makes it relatively easier for you to take on research projects. 

But instead of paying tuition to do a masters program and all the time/energy..they could just get a job? No one would look unfavourably on that haha.

 

Not meaning to be argumentative haha, just don't think masters are a good idea just to fill time. 

[medic101]

I have to agree with OneDoctor, imo doing a masters open doors, whether it be later in life or as a backup career if needed. I didn't do one, because I too felt like it would be a massive waste of time and add to my student loan. But in hindsight, I regret not doing one. I feel like the experience would have led to more opportunities even post med school. Some of my friends did a masters in their GAP year, and many of them are using it in some way. One continued being an MD advocate for public health and speaks at conferences, another is consulting as an MD on mobile app tech, etc. I don't think a masters is necessary to do all this, but the ones who do a masters seem to able to step into these roles more easily. Just depends on your personal goals I guess. 

[OneDoctor]

I have to agree with OneDoctor, imo doing a masters open doors, whether it be later in life or as a backup career if needed. I didn't do one, because I too felt like it would be a massive waste of time and add to my student loan. But in hindsight, I regret not doing one. I feel like the experience would have led to more opportunities even post med school. Some of my friends did a masters in their GAP year, and many of them are using it in some way. One continued being an MD advocate for public health and speaks at conferences, another is consulting as an MD on mobile app tech, etc. I don't think a masters is necessary to do all this, but the ones who do a masters seem to able to step into these roles more easily. Just depends on your personal goals I guess. 

 

Well said.

[_ _]

But instead of paying tuition to do a masters program and all the time/energy..they could just get a job? No one would look unfavourably on that haha.

 

Not meaning to be argumentative haha, just don't think masters are a good idea just to fill time. 

You have to watch out-Assuming they have loans from undergrad they'd have to start paying them back.

Unless you can get a non-min wage job, paying them back on top f living expenses, AND us med apps fees/inteview flights its pretty tough.....

[Edict]

Completed undergrad, been out of school for a year. Canadian schools did not go as planned so I'm now looking to apply to US schools. A little worried about not getting which would result in me wasting another year.

 

Stats: GPA: 3.87 MCAT: 33 (10/11/12)

 

ECs: nothing spectacular: senior thesis, school clubs, medical brigade, service-learning trips, coaching little league, dance teams

 

Is it worth taking the year off again and applying? MD or DO schools? Suggestions?

 

Yes, take another year off. With a 3.87 cGPA and a 10/11/12 you are in a good position for McMaster, Western, Queens etc and consider US schools for sure, not too familiar with the US but i'm sure others can give you advice. 

[medhope15]

With US schools it is competitive but they do have some reserved seats for international applicants (if you can fork out the $$$ they will take you). I think you definitely will get into the US if you apply broadly but do look up each school specifically as some will NOT accept foreign students and some will require you pay up front for 2 years or definitely show funds for 4 years in order to get a seat. The $$ part is pretty big there so just make sure you have funds in place because for nearly every place I researched, if you do not show you have the funds, you do not get in, even as a top applicant. And remember you will have a very hard time getting loans there as a foreign student.

[JohnGrisham]

With US schools it is competitive but they do have some reserved seats for international applicants (if you can fork out the $$$ they will take you). I think you definitely will get into the US if you apply broadly but do look up each school specifically as some will NOT accept foreign students and some will require you pay up front for 2 years or definitely show funds for 4 years in order to get a seat. The $$ part is pretty big there so just make sure you have funds in place because for nearly every place I researched, if you do not show you have the funds, you do not get in, even as a top applicant. And remember you will have a very hard time getting loans there as a foreign student.

No that is wrong. Most schools do not have reserved seats at all.  Many will have caps on how many internationals they are allowed to accept -but that in no way makes them necessary to accept any internationals at all. So it is not about "forking over $$$" - the private schools that take internationals would get the same amount of $$ from you or a US citizen.  The acceptance rate for the US schools for internationals is still fairly low. Simply look at MSAR.

 

And no, the loans would not be any different had you stayed in Canada - you would be getting Canadian Bank LOCs. 

 

But yes, you are correct in that many schools have policies in place to ensure international students have enough funds to make it through all 4 years - and not be forced to drop out.

 

Please do some research before providing misleading information.

[medhope15]

No that is wrong. Most schools do not have reserved seats at all.  Many will have caps on how many internationals they are allowed to accept -but that in no way makes them necessary to accept any internationals at all. So it is not about "forking over $$$" - the private schools that take internationals would get the same amount of $$ from you or a US citizen.  The acceptance rate for the US schools for internationals is still fairly low. Simply look at MSAR.

 

And no, the loans would not be any different had you stayed in Canada - you would be getting Canadian Bank LOCs. 

 

But yes, you are correct in that many schools have policies in place to ensure international students have enough funds to make it through all 4 years - and not be forced to drop out.

 

Please do some research before providing misleading information.

I meant reserved as in only X number of seats for an international applicant and you are right they do NOT have to fill them with international applicants. My point was to say that your chances are not the same as with US applicants. Same thing happens in Canada, your chances are lower out of province.

I have however contacted a couple of the offices at the schools and they were very firm in stating that you need to prove you have the funds. And if you look at the stats for scholarships, US students do receive quite a bit, so at the end of the day after your tuition and other fees, as a Canadian you will pay more than a US student which makes these attractive for foreign students who have the $$ up front.

[JohnGrisham]

I meant reserved as in only X number of seats for an international applicant and you are right they do NOT have to fill them with international applicants. My point was to say that your chances are not the same as with US applicants. Same thing happens in Canada, your chances are lower out of province.

I have however contacted a couple of the offices at the schools and they were very firm in stating that you need to prove you have the funds. And if you look at the stats for scholarships, US students do receive quite a bit, so at the end of the day after your tuition and other fees, as a Canadian you will pay more than a US student which makes these attractive for foreign students who have the $$ up front.

Definitely, i don't disagree with those points - I think your original post was a bit unclear in how you phrased it, that's all

 

Even with having $$, there's still loads of competition for the few seats for non-US students.

[RAPTORS99]

Sorry guys just have been completely swamped with work. But thank-you all for the great feedback.

 

As of right now, I will probably pursue a masters, although not the traditional research masters that one might think of. But rather a co-op MBA specializing in health services. I like the flexibility of the co-op because I can pursue a more research based role or a more administrative one. This way I can build some good ECs for medicine and if that doesn't work out its a great back up option IMO.

 

For me the issue is timing, I wrote my MCAT way back in 2012 so its already not valid for some US schools. I was thinking that I could apply this year but the only way that will work is if I get accepted and am able to defer my admission for a year.

 

Thoughts? Feedback?

[JohnGrisham]

Sorry guys just have been completely swamped with work. But thank-you all for the great feedback.

 

As of right now, I will probably pursue a masters, although not the traditional research masters that one might think of. But rather a co-op MBA specializing in health services. I like the flexibility of the co-op because I can pursue a more research based role or a more administrative one. This way I can build some good ECs for medicine and if that doesn't work out its a great back up option IMO.

 

For me the issue is timing, I wrote my MCAT way back in 2012 so its already not valid for some US schools. I was thinking that I could apply this year but the only way that will work is if I get accepted and am able to defer my admission for a year.

 

Thoughts? Feedback?

Can you elaborate why you can't apply the upcoming cycle (in May 2015, for entry in Summer 2016) to the US? I would look more into the expiry, some schools is 5 years, so you may be okay. You can also take the new MCAT this summer.

 

Is it decided based on your research that you have to take the new MCAT for applying to Canada again the upcoming cycle?

 

Take the new MCAT in July/August 2015, and apply again to both Canadian and US schools. Success and be a doctor in training.

 

 

 

As for the co-op MBA in health services, what program is that even?  I'm biased, but i'm patently against doing an MBA for people who haven't really been in the related work force for at least 3-5 years. Is this an MHA or something?  Co-op is nice, but you can also just get jobs yourself and not have to pay tuition fees just for the privilege for that placement etc.

 

I know of this program: http://mbastudent.degroote.mcmaster.ca/program-information/specializations/health-services-management/  But again, from talking to a friend who did it..not really worth its salt if you aren't already an exec and having your company pay for it or its helping you get to a more senior role etc. 

 

 

 

 

[RAPTORS99]

Can you elaborate why you can't apply the upcoming cycle (in May 2015, for entry in Summer 2016) to the US? I would look more into the expiry, some schools is 5 years, so you may be okay. You can also take the new MCAT this summer.

 

Is it decided based on your research that you have to take the new MCAT for applying to Canada again the upcoming cycle?

 

Take the new MCAT in July/August 2015, and apply again to both Canadian and US schools. Success and be a doctor in training.

 

 

 

As for the co-op MBA in health services, what program is that even?  I'm biased, but i'm patently against doing an MBA for people who haven't really been in the related work force for at least 3-5 years. Is this an MHA or something?  Co-op is nice, but you can also just get jobs yourself and not have to pay tuition fees just for the privilege for that placement etc.

 

I know of this program: http://mbastudent.degroote.mcmaster.ca/program-information/specializations/health-services-management/  But again, from talking to a friend who did it..not really worth its salt if you aren't already an exec and having your company pay for it or its helping you get to a more senior role etc. 

 

 

 

 

Assuming I began that Masters program, I would not be able to leave it in between if granted admission to the American Schools. That is why I was asking about the deferral policy. 

[JohnGrisham]

Assuming I began that Masters program, I would not be able to leave it in between if granted admission to the American Schools. That is why I was asking about the deferral policy. 

Right makes sense, so I assume you're set on the masters program then? In most cases, schools won't allow you to defer unless its for a specific reason. Something like knowing you're in a masters program wouldn't really fit. In that case, you would just wait and apply a year later when you're half way through masters.