Dos Now Considered As Imgs Starting Next Year?

[ckylo]

Recently, I've talked to a DO graduate and my academic advisor, and both have told me that there have been new policies set for next year's DO graduates to be considered as IMGs. The DO graduate matched in Canada this year, and confirmed this to me saying that this rule would be in effect for next year's DO graduates. 

 

I did a bit more browsing for information on google (typed it in once) Found the COMSA website:  http://www.studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/returning

 

"After completing an ACGME residency in the US, you will be eligible to apply for medical licensure in Canada. To obtain licensure, you must meet the four requirements of the Canadian Standard - the set of qualifications that makes a candidate eligible for full licensure in every province and territory. Once this has been met, the process of applying for and obtaining a Canadian medical license varies from province to province. "

 

So my interpretation of this, and the steps COMSA generously outlined to come back to Canada for practice, seems to be that DO's will now have to go through the same hoops that any IMG must go through. The only benefit being a really good chance at matching for residency in the US/ and practicing there.

 

Can anyone elaborate on this to further my understanding? I've talked to an IMG (Doctor at my clinic), who said she killed the licensing exams many times but with heavy competition never successfully got through until finally she got lucky and obtained a medical license. Does this mean that it is definite that DOs will now have to go through a similar experience to get back to Canada?

[s5260205]

Check the provincial eligibility of DO gradutes on the CaRMS official website for the most updated information. The last time I checked, DO graduates will only be considered as CMG for matching purposes in BC and Manitoba. The new policy is taking effect in the next application cycle where Ontario will no long consider DO graduates as CMGs. Other provincial eligibilities remain the same, i.e., can't match at Maritime provinces and Saskatchewan and IMGs in Alberta and Quebec.

 

As it stands, you will have a much easier time staying in the US for residency and come back to Canada after. This route is not without its advantages. As a DO graduate, you will be considered an AMG for NRMP residency matching, making matching at most specialties significantly easier compared to IMGs. As an AMG, you will also be potentially eligible for H1b visa (program specific, however) and be able to obtain a green card and permanently stay in the US to practise at the end of your training.

[JohnGrisham]

DO is an AMG which is significantly better than any IMG on average for matching in the US which is the main focus once you leave Canada.

 

But yes CMG in BC and Manitoba, otherwise IMG for Ontario where most rest residencies are. Quebec is free for all.

[ckylo]

My bad for not checking the CaRMS website before coming to post here, sorry about that!

 

I guess I'll ask this while I'm here anyways. You mentioned that it would be easier to come back to Canada after residency. What is the difference between a DO graduate attempting to come back to Canada (Ontario) after residency, and obtaining a license to practice vs. an IMG (who has also finished residency) trying to do so? 

[JohnGrisham]

Nothing^. But its the part of getting a residency in the US. A US graduate is infenitely better off at getting a US residency than an IMG

[ckylo]

Thank you for clarifying

[JohnGrisham]

Wait. To clarify you must have ACGME training from the US or a few select areas in other cases. You're story of your IMG doctor is confusing, as if they had ACGME training from the US or approved training, it would have taken "luck"..

[ckylo]

Yeah, I read that on the COMSA website!   As for the story of my IMG Doctor, the doctor was from China, if that changes anything

 

Edit: Completed medical school/residency in China. My understanding is that, there are only a few select spots designated for Internationally trained doctors allowed to practice in Canada. So even if you do really well on the exams, for Internationally trained doctors there is no guarantee that you can come to Canada and practice. The Doctor told me she got lucky and got through, not really sure what that meant either to be honest haha. 

[JohnGrisham]

Yes that does a lot haha.

[JohnGrisham]

They would be an FMG, and I'm surprised they were able to get a FM license without having to redo residency, maybe they aren't as strict as they always seem to be.

[JohnGrisham]

(Apparently though Hong Kong is on the list of approved regions, so maybe some areas of China are too...? Either way I dont think many people tend to be on that route)

[ckylo]

LOL MY BAD. As you can see I am still having trouble understanding how Canada classifies medical graduates from the US, and other parts of the world. I need to do more reading.  She's been practicing for a while so I assume this was before the surplus of medical graduates. 

 

So basically ACGME training from the US > FMG, when it comes to coming back to Canada?

[JohnGrisham]

All day everyday.

[t0ny]

DO is an AMG which is significantly better than any IMG on average for matching in the US which is the main focus once you leave Canada.

 

But yes CMG in BC and Manitoba, otherwise IMG for Ontario where most rest residencies are. Quebec is free for all.

just curious, why do you say quebec is free for all?

[JohnGrisham]

If i'm not mistaken, Quebec's iterations are competitive - as in all CMGs and IMGs are all lumped together, with no parallel streams like in all other provinces (with designated seats, and not competing with CMGs).  

But of course, if you don't speak french its probably unlikely. I've heard from IMGs, that if you speak french, you're pretty much set for matching in Quebec.

http://www.carms.ca/assets/upload/Match%20reports/2014%20R-1%20match/EN/Table%2043%20-%20IMG%20Match%20Results%20by%20School%20of%20Residency_English.pdf 


43 IMGs matched in Quebec in 2014 for example.

BUT - this is all anecdotal.

[t0ny]

If i'm not mistaken, Quebec's iterations are competitive - as in all CMGs and IMGs are all lumped together, with no parallel streams like in all other provinces (with designated seats, and not competing with CMGs).  

 

But of course, if you don't speak french its probably unlikely. I've heard from IMGs, that if you speak french, you're pretty much set for matching in Quebec.

 

http://www.carms.ca/assets/upload/Match%20reports/2014%20R-1%20match/EN/Table%2043%20-%20IMG%20Match%20Results%20by%20School%20of%20Residency_English.pdf 

 

 

43 IMGs matched in Quebec in 2014 for example.

 

BUT - this is all anecdotal.

Oh well i'm fluent in french and english since I live in Montreal. For some reason I had the impression that matching to Quebec as an IMG is not possible because you're missing an exam when you apply or something so you have to wait an extra year. I'm not sure I just remember reading that somewhere

[JohnGrisham]

Oh well i'm fluent in french and english since I live in Montreal. For some reason I had the impression that matching to Quebec as an IMG is not possible because you're missing an exam when you apply or something so you have to wait an extra year. I'm not sure I just remember reading that somewhere

You hit the jackpot if you know french. 

[s5260205]

This is complete hearsay but I am under the impression that Quebec, especially the rural parts, has a very high demand for physicians, and some IMGs match in Quebec with very minimum French because of this demand. In any way however, knowing French certainly would be advantageous for IMGs.

[Edict]

Oh well i'm fluent in french and english since I live in Montreal. For some reason I had the impression that matching to Quebec as an IMG is not possible because you're missing an exam when you apply or something so you have to wait an extra year. I'm not sure I just remember reading that somewhere

 

I've heard this as well. You have to take a year out at minimum for Quebec even if you are fluent in French. 

[JohnGrisham]

I've heard this as well. You have to take a year out at minimum for Quebec even if you are fluent in French.

You are correct:

http://www.cmq.org/fr/ObtenirPermis/DiplomesInternationaux/Permis/1ReconnaissanceEquivalence.aspx#PointTitle3

 

I heard through the grape vine a few US students Interviewed in Quebec so perhaps US graduates are not required to do CMQ. I will look into it.

 

To get the equivilance, you need to do EE(not a problem), NAC (not a problem) and QE1 which is a problem as it seems you cant take it in time to apply without taking a year off- if my understanding is correct....

 

This applies to all IMGs

 

 

EDIT: However it seems you do not have to have graduated to take the QE1. You can take the November exam if you're expected to graduate in spring. But no idea if this is even helpful or not.

 

http://mcc.ca/examinations/mccqe-part-i/application-information/

 

Will reach out to those IMGs and see what is the situation

[JohnGrisham]

After briefly talking with a current 4th year, they indicated a handful of USDOs interviewed in Quebec this past cycle, with no indication that any of them took QE1, thus did not go through the CMQ equivilance process.

Based on the following link: http://www.carms.ca/en/residency/r-1/eligibility-criteria/provincial-criteria/quebec/


"Admission to residency training programs in Québec via CaRMS is limited to graduates of accredited medical schools in Canada and the United States of America and International Medical Graduates who complete the equivalence process of the Collège des médecins du Québec. "

It would seem to reason that USDO and USMD alike do not have to complete the equivalence process that IMGs have to do, thus can apply in their final year no problem.

 

If someone from Quebec has time to contact the appropriate organizations and confirm, that would be great. Based on the current information at hand, it seems that USDOs are in the clear for Quebec and not have to complete the Equivelance process.