Guest dogeatdog12 Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 I told my prof who is supervising my research in his lab that I am going to apply to med school this fall and asked him for a letter. He was more than happy to give me one but then he asked me "what sort of things do you want in the letter?". I didn't know what to say. I've never been asked that before. Apperently he must have like me a lot to say that or he just doesn't mind helping out students. But what should a good recommendation letter say? What is the idea recommendation letter? also, a grad student in his lab said he would write me one too! I've worked closely with her and she said that she would write any letter but asked what she should emphasize? I would appreciate any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Namgalsip Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Hey dogeatdog, It sounds like your supervisor is willing to write you a great letter. Here's my recommendations. Take a look at the 1st page of the letter where you have to check boxes from excellent to poor. The qualities listed there are important and can be further elaborated in the letter. If the letter is the same format as last year, you'd have qualities such as leadership, teamwork, initiative, motivation, stability, verbal/written skills, etc. (I'm totally going off the top of my head, but that's what I remember). I also think it's important to emphasize your desire to pursue medicine. Also, if I remember correctly the letter specifically asks the evaluator to comment on specific things (including your desire to pursue medicine). Hope this helps. Nams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogeatdog12 Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 is there a form to go with the letters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UTMed07 Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 The recommendation letters for OMSAS schools (or (in other words) all medical schools in Ontario) aren't conventional recommendation letters; they are in reality forms... with check-boxes. Actually, I think in OMSAS parlance "recommendation letter" is actually called "referee form." Most of the form focuses on the applicant's character. Some of the check-box questions are (this is from memory) -- Rate the applicants leadership abilities. Rate their motivation to pursue medicine as a career. Do you think this person could deal with the rigours of a medical education? Does the person demonstrate empathy? Can they communicate effectively with others? Do you think this person has integrity? How good are their verbal and written communications skills? And of course what every admissions person really wants to know... would this person make a good physician? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fox Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I included a copy of my CV when I gave my referees the forms/letters to fill out. Although they knew me fairly well, I felt this would "refresh" their memory about things I had done in the past. For example, my Masters supervisor wrote me a letter and although she knew quite a lot about my life outside of school, there were lots of things she probably didn't know I had been involved in. This allowed her to see a more well rounded picture of who I was. Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Great suggestion Fox...I actually did the same thing...provided all my referees with my C-V, a copy of my transcript and a short little 1-pager on why I wanted to pursue medicine. I also added a self-addressed stamped envelope to make their life as easy as possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macMDstudent Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 I also recommend including some information about yourself, and a stamped envelope ready to go. I also included a bottle of wine as a gift (bribe?) to my references! They really liked that! Of course, that is not necessary, but it didn't hurt either. My references were busy MD's and I wanted to show them I appreciated their valuable time in completing the thing, and I wanted to make it as easy as possible for them to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 I think that all the suggestions here are great ... but be cautious about giving gifts to references - I've had some references who HATE gifts and feel really uncomfortable about giving a reference letter after they've gotten a gift because they feel like it's a bribe. I did give gifts to most of my references after the letters, but not to those references who I thought would be offended... I agree that it's often a good idea, but I think it's important to consider whether that particular person will take it the right way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macMDstudent Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 I agree with peachy that you have to approach the gift thing with a certain amount of awareness. In my case, my references were actually personal friends, so they knew me really well and I knew them really well. Also, I didn't give them the gift until after I knew they had sent they reference in, so I don't believe it influenced their letter at all. I was only trying to joke about the bribe thing, so if you give a gift I would suggest you do it after you know the letter has been sent to avoid any feelings of undue influence over the letter. In the case where somebody asks you what you want written in the letter, I don't think this is a problem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LIPOSUCTIONATOR Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 In regards to the OMSAS schools, I believe Queens is the only university that takes them into serious considerations. One of referees insisted that I write my own letter because he wasn't comfortable with his writing skills. Is this unethical? What should I tell him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogeatdog12 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 don't all schools take the notes into serious consideration? not just queens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dfenst Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 If the supervisor of the lab is going to write you a kick ass letter, then the letter coming from the grad student from the same lab might come across as you not being diverse. I made sure to use references from different spectra - my masters dean, a doctor I did research with, and an undergrad prof (org chem). I think showing that you can get great references from 3 different facets of your premed years shows committees that you're diverse, excel wherever you go, and that their med school is the next place for you to shine. Just a thought. Good luck. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UTMed07 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 LIPOSUCTIONATOR: In regards to the OMSAS schools, I believe Queens is the only university that takes them into serious consideration.What makes you believe that? I can't imagine a med school accepting someone who has a letter of non-recommendation. One of referees insisted that I write my own letter because he wasn't comfortable with his writing skills. Is this unethical? What should I tell him?I've had a couple of people ask me to write the draft of the LOR (letter of recommendation) they wrote for me. I don't think that was unethical at all. Actually, I think it was a good exercise, because I might be writing LORs at some point in the future. Also, I think it gave the referees a good impression of what I think is important and how I see myself. IMHO your referee should sign the LOR and mail it. You should not see the final letter (by 'final' I mean the piece(s) of paper that is (are) actually sent). If you're okay for those two things IMHO you're ethically in the clear. Other things to consider... (1) whether there is another referee with better writing skills that can cover the same bases (2) assist the referee in finding a copy editing service--that swears to keep the contents of the LOR confidential. I think that ethically many people wouldn't see anything wrong with you covering the cost of a copy editing service... whereas I personally would feel a bit uncomfortable about doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dogeatdog12 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 do you choose your three BEST references or your three most diverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lactic Folly Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I vote for best, unless they're all of equal quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIRA Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Speaking of LORs, I was just wondering...when it comes to the part when the referee rates the applicants qualities, is it expected that a "good" applicant should be rated as excellent in ALL of those areas? Say a referee checks off "good" (or maybe worse) rather than "excellent" for a couple of those qualities - does that equal automatic rejection? On the other hand, doesn't it look a little contrived if all the qualities are rated as excellent? Not to say that it isn't true...in many cases it probably is, but I could easily see one referee think that they have to check off all "excellents" in order to help the applicant, while I could see another referee putting a great deal of thought into it and their ratings could vary between the different qualities/skills. Any thoughts? ~ Jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LIPOSUCTIONATOR Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 You could be right, that statement was just conjecture. I've read elsewhere on this message board that Western and Mac don't take references into consideration. U of T probably does but I think they put more weight on the sketch and essay. As for Ottawa I have no clue because with my GPA I won't be applying to that school. The only reason why I said Queens takes references into "serious" consideration was because on its supplementary application form you have to explain why you chose your 3 referees. But I agree with UofTMed07, a poor reference will jeopardize your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UTMed07 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 The only reason why I said Queens (sic) takes references into "serious" consideration was because on its supplementary application form you have to explain why you chose your 3 referees.IMHO you're jumping to a conclusion. Speaking of LORs, I was just wondering...when it comes to the part when the referee rates the applicants qualities, is it expected that a "good" applicant should be rated as excellent in ALL of those areas?-- SNIP -- I could easily see one referee think that they have to check off all "excellents" in order to help the applicant, while I could see another referee putting a great deal of thought into it and their ratings could vary between the different qualities/skills. I think OMSAS asks the referees for their honest opinion. That said, LORs still depend on the applicant and the referee. Some referees will describe outstanding people as 'average', because they have very high standards; whereas, others rate strong people as a "outstanding." This is obviously a problem, however, keep in mind that for each applicant there are at least three perspectives (or LORs). The above considered, it is worth thinking a bit about the standards of your letter writers. Some people are very accomplished and have extremely high standards. I know that one of my LOR writers last year was this type of a person and in hindsight believe wasn't the ideal choice for an additional LOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 I know that one of my LOR writers last year was this type of a person and in hindsight believe wasn't the ideal choice for an additional LOR.Must not have hurt TOO much, though, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UTMed07 Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Must not have hurt TOO much, though, eh? By "last year" I meant the application cycle for entry into medical school in 2002. That round didn't have a happy ending for me (waitlist-reject). I not convinced it was the LOR--I reckon it was the interview (I don't think it went well in 2002)--but then I'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Oh. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest premed81 Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Hi everyone, I'd like to know if these referee forms are the same things as the personal assessment forms that I've been reading about. And are these forms (referee or assessments) now available online or something. Greatly appreciate a response. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIRA Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Hi premed81, Yes, personal/confidential assessment/referee forms - they're all the same thing (for Ontario anyways). I think you can get a copy of last year's confidential assessment form on the OMSAS website. The forms for the next application cycle should be available in the next couple of weeks. They will most likely be very similar, if not the same as last year's forms. ~jamira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest premed81 Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 Thanks Jamira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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