Guest SUCKS Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 McMaster is NOT a real medical school. End of story. Okay, so what if it grants an "MD" degree to graduates. Does it really ensure equal access to medical education? No, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stickler Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 I think it is a good school in terms of faculty/research etc BUT their admissions policies do not provide equal access to medical education with even the slightest element of fairness. They are no different than racists,biggots orsexists in that they promote admissions policies that do not allow for unbiased judgement, rather judgement by 3 very biased people all looking for completely different things. This is from someone on the "inside". Don't believe me? Well I know that all the previous talk about not using Humour in your essay is incorrect because this is one of the criteria that is assesed on the evaluation submitted by the essay readers from the green guideline sheet. Don't worry about using humor because even us readers are confused as to whether to deduct or add marks for humour, furthermore what is too much or too little humour, noone knows. Infact noone knows about any of the qualities we are supposed to judge! I am in the program now but can sat that I applied 3 times, first time 78 percentile, second time exact same application 21st percentile and final time who knows. Its completely random, I wonder if all they do is draw straws at the end of the day and then just make up a percentile to put on your rejection notice.........hmmm I wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 I wouldn't say that Mac's admissions policies are exactly reliable, but I think you guys are taking way too harsh a stance. I've obviously never been on the reading side of those applications, but I would assume that of the 3000, there are way more than 400 applications that seem to have been written by ideal candidates for medicine. No, their system probably isn't the most fair, but maybe the situation we're imposing on them isn't exactly fair either. Would you be fair if you had to choose 400 people out of, say, 1000, who all seemed to be equally qualified and suitable for a position? As with all other aspects of life, there seems to be a lot of luck associated with the admissions process, not only at Mac but also to a lesser extent at other schools (getting that right interviewer with whom you click). Maybe you should stop looking at it as an academic admissions process and more like that show, Survivor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JD Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 While I don't like their admission policies (AT ALL), and don't think they interview the 400 "best" candidates (and I mean by their own criteria) out of the 3000 applicants, I think we should separate this from their program itself, which many, many good things are said about. Admittedly, it probably wasn't the most appropriate program for me... plus it was far from my first choice, which might have showed in my autobiographical submission. Maybe the rejection was best for both myself and the program. But even if it wasn't, I guess there's nothing I can do to change that now :b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 I wouldn't necessarily say they interview the "best" 400 applicants either, but can you really tell who is the "best" just from a serious of questions. Yes, it is important to be able to speak concisely (ie, Mac's tight word counts) but will that make you any more successful at Mac? Not necessarily. What about those people who are excellent speakers but just not as innovative when it comes to the written word? They'll be selected against at the first step, even if they would make superb Mac students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 I would like to encourage the debate, but please keep the "racist, sexist, etc" comments out of it. If there are any more comments like this on the thread that detract from a constructive criticism/debate, they will be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cradlecrotch Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Hey Gucio, I know you're the moderator here and you are a Mac student, but you need to keep in mind that your job here is to promote open discussion, not threaten to block the opinions that you've (wrongly) taken personally. If someone believes that Mac is biased and compares that bias to sexism, they should be free to express themselves. There was no personal attack in any of Stickler's comments, he merely critcized the system - but you as a representative of Mac took it personally. If you disagree with him/her, debate it on the facts. I have followed some of your messages over the last couple of days and it's clear that you are a staunch defender of Mac's policies. I would encourage you to continue expressing your thoughts, and let others do the same. Your position as moderator (and indeed as a future physician) grants you certain powers...use them wisely...lest the face of censorship rears its ugly head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 I think Gucio is doing an excellent job. The moderators and I have noted that in the past few weeks, as the interview season has reared up, that threads can very easily degenerate down if personal attacks or other unsubstantiated accusations are tossed around. By keeping the personal attacks out, we prolong the thread and keep it on a productive course, so that more people can contribute to the discussion. It's slightly counter-intuitive how everything works, but as a moderator, sometimes you need to put your nose into the discussion a little to keep things civil. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cradlecrotch Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 As for keeping out personal attacks I agree 100%. The message in question contained nothing of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 They promote admissions policies that do not allow for unbiased judgement, rather judgement by 3 very biased people all looking for completely different things. - How is this different from being interviewed by three different people who all have different opinions? Even less internally valid, being interviewed by one person who interviews several applicants, while another colleague interviews several more, etc.? How can you say that these people will react to the same way to the applicants responses, or even elicit the same responses with their interview styles? Let's be fair - if we're criticizing the Mac process for the subjectivity of their essay application, we should also criticize the interview processes of all the schools, etc. . . Otherwise, it would probably be wise to agree that all the schools in fact have a component of bias/subjectivity in ther admission process. Why is it bad? They are all looking for a specific applicant whose personal qualities will fit the structure of their programme. What's the point of admitting an applicant who definitely has the intellectual capacity but will be lost in a specific teaching/learning environment? It would be to the detriment of the individual, his/her colleaugues, and the school. Since there are many medical schools in Canada, everyone can find the one with which they will "click". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 They are no different than racists,biggots orsexists in that they promote admissions policies that do not allow for unbiased judgement . . ." While I did not take this comment personally (as you have incorrectly assumed), I do not agree with flinging hurtful and inflammatory accusations without objective substantiation. If one wishes to make such comments with proper support, they are free to do so. I also do not try to "block" people's views or opinions, and I do not disagree with free speech; however, there are certain rules on this forum that people agree to follow when they post here. One of them is to keep their language clean, another is to remian professional and curteous to other posters. This is a boeard that was started by Ian, and he would like to keep it from deteriorating (as would the other moderators), which is what has recently been happening to delphi. This is a highly valuable resource, and these rules help keep it that way. Everyone who wishes to disregard also makes a personal choice and that may mean that, in the interest of "the greater good" their comments may be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SickTired Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 "The Greater Good" - gucio Let's face it people. Mac will always be one of those schools that get people fired up. Who cares. This happens every year. The nature of medicine requires people to be studious and personable. Some would argue that the personable side can only come from extensive "life experiences" while others would say that med school + residency will do the job. I got rejected. It's not a big deal for me because I have interviews lined up. For others who are banking on Mac, this is a big shock (esp for one of my friends). Sorry to you people. It sucks and I know (been there, done that). Just study hard and get on with it. Don't bank on Mac because their admission process is a crapshoot one. Apply to lots of schools. Spend lots of times on essays. And lastly, hope for the best. Things may or may not work out the way you want it to. You can only try and see what happens, am I right? Having responded to Mac applicants, here's a note to Mac med students: Really appreciate your insights into the program at Mac. But honestly, I'm quite tired of hearing the students there respond with an air of moral superiority. Get with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gucio93Fan Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 When the few malcontents above were applying to McMaster, they were obviously willing to be a part of the process. Now that they are not one of the selected interviewees, suddenly the school run by a horrid band of conspirators and the students who make it through are incompetent and unworthy. Intolerance and pettiness are unbecoming of a medical student and doctor. Health care depends on collaboration. True, many good people will not get a chance at Mac. There are usually about 4000 applicants from which the selection committee must eventually select 100 students. I do not envy their position and am sure that they must agonize over rejecting so many promising people. Luckily, there are many medical schools to which to apply. The smart money is on applying to at least six to increase your chances of success. Instead of wasting time condemning people and stewing over institutions who do not see you the same way you see yourself, learn from the experience, and then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 Thanks for the encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tempus Textor Posted March 14, 2002 Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 "I have travelled to far away places and seen all sorts of things . . ." There are no adverse medical schools in Canada. Some of the world's very best med schools are arguably more impressive, better equipped and staffed (more expensive), and more highly reputed BUT not one of our schools is sub par. In the big scheme of things and in a land where considerable talent abounds, I would be honoured to be even noticed by any Canadian medical school. SUCKS (if you're still out there): If medicine doesn't work out immediately at Mac or elsewhere, travel and adventure for a while outside CanUs & NWEur. It will spin you 'round. Tempus Textor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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