Guest MACbetty Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 hi, This isn't a very uplifting topic, but i was wondering if anyone might know what the drop out rate for MAC med school is? I was thinking that since the programme is so unique and challenging that some students might not make it through (plus my husband wants to know). thanks, Macbetty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hey MACbetty. I have no insight on that topic, but I too would like to know. Good question. Further to that question, can anyone tell us what resources are available to students having emotional/academic difficulties and just feel like they can't do it anymore. From the limited knowledge I do have I understand that med schools will try very hard to retain you in their program b/c everyone knows that the schools are accountable at large due to the fact that a) med schools are in large part publicly funded and doctors are in demand. Any inside word from Mac students, or med students in general, would be really helpful.. Thanks for posing a question I've always wanted to know too Macbetty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Can't speak for Mac, but over 4 years of med school here at UBC, my class has had 1 person leave because of health reasons, and a few others (4-5) have taken a year off/had to repeat a year for personal or academic reasons. We've had one person leave the program for academic reasons. So, overall, out of the initial 120 of us, 118 (or thereabouts) will graduate either on time, or a year later. If you get into med school, it will be your decision to leave it as well. Ian UBC, Med 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 As far as I know, thus far there have been no drops outs in my class, nor have I heard of any of those sorts of rumblings. A girlfriend of mine graduated from Mac in 2001, 2 people left (on their own accord) at Christmas of their 1st year because they realized they were not cut out to be Physicians (they should have realized that before...what a waste in my opinion....)... On the 1st day of class my tutor told us not to worry, we will learn what we need to and we might as well get the frame ready to put our degree on the wall... No worries, they want you to get through...they (the school and gov't) are paying for our education...and they don't want it to go to waste!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 We lost one person in our class. She was asked to leave the programme around Christmas of 2nd year. I believe there were some serious ethical concerns involved. Other than that, people have close relatives pass away, some have had babies, etc. and they have managed to work through it and remain in the programme. Even those who may (at times) be struggling a little bit academically or emotionally have a lot of support from above. There are counselling services available for anything from anxiety to substance use, and there are formal individualized "tutoring" sessions for those who have been identified by some of the exercises (read tests) as being below standards in a particular area. So not to worry, once you are in, providing you are willing to work and there are no other serious problems, you will in all likelihood stay in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emila Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Does anyone know someone who got pregnant during medical school? Is it possible to juggle pregnancy and school or did they have to take a year off? I don't want to wait 3 to 5 years before starting a family but I really want to go to med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Emila: Caveat Lector: This is a MALE perspective and my wife, when she got pregnant in the middle of school (not med school) chose not to go back to school because she is a fully dedicated mother. She believes that no financially stable, husband-supported woman with children should EVER work outside the home because it compromises her relationship with her children and their well-being. Such a decision I think is entirely different for a mother than for a father and is also based on your personality/ambition etc. Nonetheless here is my view.. I personally do not know of anyone who got pregnant in med school or in their undergrad, but I am currently a parent and I hope to get into med school for this fall at Mac. It is not the ideal situation (in terms of the time and energy you must devote to BOTH studies and spouse/kid(s) ), but I've already done it for two years. I have learned to balance the two VERY precariously; it is tough, sometimes rewarding, sometimes distracting, but not impossible. Also, I would think that med schools would be willing to give you time off, especially if employers are legally obliged to give time off for child care live I do not see why academia would not permit the same--this is where perfected "family planning" techniques come in; you don't want to deliver in the middle of an academic school year. Then again, I have seen (even at U of T) a few new young moms attempting to finish up classes bringing their newborns to class and even breastfeeding; I admire them because it is VERY tough and draining. If your spouse/partner will be able to support you, emotionally and financially through med school and starting a family you can do it. I'm sure MANY people are in a similar situation or at least thinking about what to do if they encountered personal pregnancy. My wife, currently peaking over my shoulder, reminds you that women and women only are the only gender that can get pregnant and the only gender that can nurse, so she recommends heavily that you wait until you are done med school because the female burden greatly outweighs the male-dominated view. Weigh your priorities very carefully! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest erinsmom2bmd Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Emila, I have a 17 month old daughter and have applied to Mac for fall 2003. My decision to apply was not difficult in that medicine is without a doubt the career I would like to dedicate my life to. However, I did have my reservations as I know that my time with my daughter will be somewhat limited should I be fortunate enough to be accepted. Before applying, I had many discussions with my husband and family to ensure that I would have their complete support. Without their support, I believe it would be a very difficult 3 years (not to mention the residency to follow). I have had a number of my peers question my decision to apply. They believe that at this point in my life my responsibilities lie elsewhere. I simply reply “If I don’t follow my dreams, what type of example will I be setting for my daughter.” I have always been very career oriented. As a professional and a mother, I have certainly honed my time management skills and learned to balance my personal and professional lives without feeling that one compromises the other. I can say, that I would definitely wait to finish medical school before having another child. There is nothing I enjoyed more than spending a year at home with my daughter and being able to completely dedicate myself to her. I don’t know what is acceptable in terms of maternity leave during medical school but I can tell you from personal experience that I would not have been ready to leave my daughter at 6 months to return to work. A year for me was perfect (but then again, everyone is different). The bottom line is that you have to recognize what will make you happy and devise a plan to fulfill your dreams all the while being realistic. Some of the most rewarding things in life are the things you have to work the hardest for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 My understanding is that both medical schools AND residency programs are EXTREMELY sensitive to these issues and accomodations can definitely be made. They have to be! Over half of all graduating med students are now women. But having a child would involve taking the year off, and would have to be planned just right. One of the third year clerks at UWO is apparently having a kid soon. He is, however, a he and so won't be taking a maternity leave (or paternity leave, for that matter.) And in fact, he planned his clerkship rotation around this decision. My understanding it that one of the faculty at UWO was "suggesting" the ideal time for male med students to have a child was end of 4th year - you have some spare time before residency begins. Unfortunately, with CaRMS interviews occurring in January of 4th year, that is not so for women. I think his suggestion was first year of residency, and to take some maternity leave, but I'm not 100% positive. And those suggestions are for UWO's schedule. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 Re: Drop outs - We have had a couple in my class -- most for personal or health reasons... sometimes there is a strong suggestion from the programme to take some time off and many of those people return... Each person is looked at on a case by case basis. I know of at least one in the class previous to mine that had a child while in med school -- they were very flexible with her. A woman in my class had her 4th or 5th child during our first year and took 2 - 3 weeks off and then returned - she is an absolutely brilliant superhuman! -- she also had a lot of support from her husband... Many people in my class have children - both young and teens... It seems to be doable - but how do I know - i can hardly keep my plants alive! all the best and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MDWannabe Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 I'm a father of 3 kids, 10, 8 and 6, and in first year at Mac. There are two women in my year with kids virtually the same age as mine. There are a number of others with kids of all ages, including a couple with kids around the 6 month to 1 year mark. You heard about the woman 2 years ahead of me who had her 4th in 1st year. The message is - it is doable if you really want to do it. You will be making serious compromises though, and should go in with your eyes wide open. I personally have no regrets, but I still have to face my wife and kids every morning realizing that I have much less time for them than I would like, given how crazy I am about them. I have already been away too many nights (I have 2 evening tutorials), and at times that is a strain. On the other side of the coin, I miss a number of extra-curricular programmes that I would otherwise attend if I didn't have other commitments. There are sacrifices on both sides, and I wouldn't have considered doing this until my last kid was in school full time, which he was as of last year. I just wasn't prepared to miss out on any of that little-kid-wide-eyed-everything-is-new thing. This is not to say in any way you would be wrong to have a baby in med school. It is a completely personal decision and depends on your own balance of priorities. There is no question I'm thrilled to be here and haven't had a second thought about following my dream of doing what I'm doing. But please be prepared for the fact that having it all is a matter of interpretation, and be prepared for the challenges of the multiple commitments involved. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest me maniac Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 Emilia, I purposely planned on getting pregnant during August before my second year (undergrad, not medical school). The first semester was difficult (I was always so tired!) becuase not only was I working part time, but also taking 5 classes and had a 2 1/2 year old at home. My due date was the beginning of May, long after my last exam. However, I ended up being put on bedrest because of complications and had to forego the second semester. I had my son in April and returned to school in Sept as planned. Was it easy? NO. Would I do it again? YES. I think you owe it to yourself to do things that YOU want. Your children will adjust much easier than you will. They will also grow up and one day have their own lives. What will you have? Unlived dreams? Regret that you should have done those things that you really wanted? I'm not saying that you can't be a great mom, becuase you can. However, if you want to "have it all", you just have to work a little bit harder than the others. You don't need to be superwoman, you may have to settle for the fact that your house will not always be superclean, you will not always have Martha Stewart meals, and that others in the family will need to pitch in to help you out. You also need a lot of support from you spouse because he or she can make or break your best laid out plans. This being said, I should also tell you that I returned to work full-time when my first son was 6 weeks old. This was my choice, no one else's. My husband stayed at home to be a stay at home dad and he loved it! I know I would not have. You are not doing your kids any favours by staying at home if you are extremely unhappy with your decision - their unhappiness will be a reflection of yours. I know 2 or 3 women who chose to stay at home, but are miserable. They wanted to give their kids the best environment while they were young, but in all honesty, I don't think they have because both these women have mentioned that they have lost all contact with the work world and even that it is becuase of the kids that they have! It is not the kids' fault that they made their decision to stay home, only theirs. I guess what I'm trying to say that a blanket policy doesn't work in all cases. You need to decide what it is that YOU and YOUR HUSBAND want to do and then figure out the best way that will work for the both of you. As mentioned in a previous post, your kids will remember your hard work and dedication and that will set a good example for them on how you want them to live their lives as well. I don't know if that helps, but rest assured that if you want to have it all, it can be done! I am living proof! Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 All I can say is that I echo me maniac's comments. In order for your children to be happy and well adjusted, YOU must be happy and satisfied with your choices - or have great talent in putting on a happy face . I have a 9 year old son, who is a pretty good kid (if you trust my rather biased opinion), but I also have a great and very supportive husband. It was my dream to go to med school and I am so much happier since I have made the decision to make a career change. I am not ruling out having another child either. A classmate of mine just had a little girl about a month ago. She's taking some time off and coming right back. Some choose to have their children in residency, because full maternity benefits are applicable to residents, so it helps financially. Also, this way you can graduate with your med school class, which is kind of nice because you can share the day with good friends. Anyways, as was said before, only YOU can make that decision knowing what is best for your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tartuffe Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 How couples resist to med school... Any advice ? What the spouse / partner should expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Tartuffe: I don't understand your question with reference to "resist." (Je ne comprends pas la question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tartuffe Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Sorry... I should have read my post twice, It seems Med school is a lot of work and stress... I read on different web sites that divorce rate among doctors / med students was way above the national average. Which lead me to 2 questions : 1 Is it true or just a rumor 2 does anybody has advice ----------------------------------- Je suis desole mais j' aurai du lire mon message 2 fois avant de le poster Il me semble que etudier en medecine est une grande charge de travail et une source de stress. J'ai lu sur differents site web que le taux de divorce parmis les medecin et les etudiants en medecine est bien au dessus de la moyenne. Se qui me conduit a 2 questions: 1 Est ce une realite ou juste un cliche 2 est ce que quelqu' un des conseils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ceds Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Tartuffe, I'm not sure if the statistics are true about divorce rates but it wouldn't surprise me. I have many close family friends who are physicians and it is tough on their spouses because of the time committment required. So there is much strain. Having said that it is possible to do it, but it does require effort from both sides. As far as advice is concerned, that may be something that someone such as MayFlower01 is better equipped to answer as his wife is an MD. As with any other aspect of a relationship, I imagine it requires patience, understanding and communication. --- Je ne sais pas si le taux de divorce est correcte mais ça ne me surprendrai pas. J'ai des bons amis qui sont medecins et c'est difficile pour leurs épouses parce qu'il faut dédier beaucoup de temps au métier. Cependant, je sais qu'un marriage avec un medecin est possible mais ça demande un effort des deux personnes. A propos du conseil que tu veux, je pense que quelqu'un comme MayFlower01 sera mieux capable de te répondre parce que sa femme est medecin. J'imagine que ça demande de la patience et beaucoup de communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Tartuffe, I would have to say that residency puts significant pressure on a marriage...although I'm not sure if I'd call it pressure...I'd be more likely to call it "distance"...some residencies more than others. My wife was in an obs/gyne residency for the first two years we were together. This was extremely hard because I didn't see her for more than a few hours when I first got up (she was typically returning home from a 30 hour shift...she was often on call 1 in 2...and when not on 1 in 2 call she was on 1 in 3 call). She would then sleep all day...when I got home from work she was often still sleeping...and the golden rule is you never wake sleeping babies or residents...unless you like seeing your spouse's head spin like Linda Blair in the Exorcist :evil ! When she woke up, it was often time to go back to work again. I wouldn't say it stressed our relationship, but rather, I missed her so much. The times that we did spend together were short, intense and even more exhausting for an already exhausted resident :x ! The lifestyle was so difficult on her that she decided to switch to a more balanced residency...family practice. Once the switch was made life returned to a somewhat normal state...very little call in comparison to obs/gyne and some of it was even home call. We managed to get much of the time we lost back during the remainder of her family medicine residency. Now that she is practicing, things are wonderful. Sure, she is extremely busy, however, we also have lots of spare time together as well...no call...except home call (really phone triage) once or twice a month...no weekends, except when she chooses to work the after-hours clinic to make some spare cash...our upcoming all inclusive trip to Cuba was paid for by three saturdays of work. We also see each other a lot at her own clinic...I work for her administering their computer network, phone system, billing system, bookeeping and I do electronic and paper medical forms design and other odd jobs for them as well. You speak of having to have patience...I would say that's absolutely true during residency...all of your energy must be directed to your spouse. Your needs are definitely significantly put on hold a significant amount of the time so that you can lend full and needed to support to your spouse...but again, that definitely depends on the type of residency, the person, the relationship, etc. We have an extremely strong and amazing relationship...and it was still tough...I'd hate to think of what would happen with a relationship that wasn't strong...that is likely where some of the divorces come from! Now that it is over...it seems like it wasn't so bad. If I get accepted to med school this year I guess I'll have a chance to refresh my memory from the other side of the fence! :\ If you have any other questions, please let me know. I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 I remember researching this topic for one of our PCL sessions - try google, there's quite a bit of this info on the internet. Anyways, the prevalence statistics I found for divorces among physicians were (by specialty): Medical Specialties: 20% Surgical Specialties: 33% Psychiatry: 50% Considering the I think close to 50% of marriages in Canada are now ending in Divorce. . . that would indicate the prevalence is LOWER among physicians. But it is very very possible that the above stats are out of date. I've heard medicine does put quite a bit of stress on marriages. Apparently ALL of the surgeons in one of the surgical services here have been divorced. It really is totally up to the people involved as to the outcome of their marriage. But I have to admit my choice of specialty will definitely take into these sorts of considerations into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tartuffe Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Peter, Thank you very much for your information... I have been really impressed by what you wrote. Your spouse is very lucky and compassion is definitively one of your qualities. I wish you all the best... According to what I think is a Mac Student.. you look very much like it :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Tartuffe, Vous êtes très aimable. Je vous souhaite le meilleur de la chance entrant à Mac cette année. Si je peux vous soutenir de quelque façon, veuillez ne pas hésiter à demander. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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