Guest sally2001 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 dannyboy's friend, your pov (point of view) is interesting but it just begs the question then - why is it then that "compassion" is such a critical quality of a doctor if some or most of them are as brash are you claim? i just find it surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 The compassion component is critical (I really hope). I think their point was that compassion is situation-specific. Let's face it: there aren't too many Mother Teresa's out there. I am nice enough but boy can I be a turd!! Dannyboy is totally sweet and really, the most compassionate person I know but what a cow she can be; when she is mean---like she posted---she is Queenie of the Meanie (this is for her benefit; it's an 'inside joke' but totally true!!!!). My program is compassionate-free (history) so my grad selection story should be considered within that context. I don't know about the med school process; what I know I've learned over the last two weeks. Please carefully consider the elimination story I provided: I think it is the most important one on this thread. To the "not yet accepted" (AKA 'rejected' but don't give up): you were eliminated for whatever reason(s) but you are totally worthy!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 it is crucial that you understand the selection process as an ELIMINATION contest and certainly NOT a selection procedure. Well stated Dannyboy; that is the name of the game! Take care and stop procrastinating like me;) Macdaddyeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McMastergirl Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 No way was I backing up "enoughofthis.." although he/she made some valid points, his/her tone was really pompous (if you ask me). I hope I didn't sound that way! I would really like to help people understand the process, but then again, maybe this is the wrong place to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tantastic Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Uhmm? Hmmmm? Your previous post came 2 minutes after a post by enoughofthis! Hmmmm, strange, I would say. you registered the same day as enough of this, hmmmm? strange again? Quit beating on these people who have worked really hard and are no less qualified than those who have been accepted. Trust me, I have friends who are in Mac's med program in first year. They will be the first to admit they are not the complete ultimate humans that were selected exclusively because their perfectness just came gleaming through during the intereviews. There are so many intangibles that go into a decision such as this that one cannot realistically try and quantify exactly where things went wrong. I have interviewed people for jobs etc and have found that often people with the same credentials/accomplishments are differentiated during the collation process with stuff like "I don't know what it was about her but something about the way she answered that question bugged me.....but I can't put my finger on it I liked candidate B so lets go with them" Sometimes not what you say but the way you say it plays a role. Keeping nerves in check and its been studied over and over again that physically attractive people are more successful at interviews, jobs, success etc. While this may not be the shooting match it may creep into the psyche of the interviewers, so try to look your best, and smile alot:) Please folks hold your head up high and be proud of yourselves, I have a friend from church who got in to med school after 6 tries. Does that mean she became radically different on the 6th attempt? No it just meant that the stars lined up and things came together. She always says that her worst interview was the one that got her accepted. Deleted the end of this message, but left the rest untouched. Please refrain from personal attacks. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AT2 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Here is a question-- most of us, applicants, have high GPA's, at least average writing skills, some research and volunteering. Now, if everything comes down to making your sketch as poetic as it can be-- how can you possibly improve your appl or take a use of a moderator's advice??? We all really, really want to be MDs, have a good grasp of what a PBL is, etc, etc.. I find it truly hard to believe that what can stand between one applicant and another is nothing more than choice of words or stylistic twists on their sketch. I was under the impression (and probably, wrongly so) that if your GPA is high enough (mine is 3.89), and your sketch is at least average, you can get an interview invite. Or may be adm committee take other factors into consideration (degree / major type, for instance)-- something that I myself would really like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ekimike Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I understand the frustration - I don't think that there is any rhyme or reason to the selection process. Last year I was ranked in the 16th percentile and was extremely baffled and disappointed. Out of curiosity (and partially out of protest) I submitted the exact same responses this year and have been selected for an interview. Conversely, there have been people who have been selected for interview in previous years who have kept what they had thought was a competitive application the same, and have ended up being rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scalar Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 AT2 With numbers like that, why did you not apply to UofT where numbers carry a significant amount of weight. I believe that for interview selection at Mac, the GPA component carries much less weight at its really the variance in essay scores that is the deterimining factor. For example, I believe the essay is marked from 0- 10 where as the GPA is 0- 4. Obviously there won't be people with GPA's of less than 3.0 so the range is only between 3.0 -4.0 wheras the range for essay scores is 0-10. hope this helps. They don't take into consideration your majour, the essay markers only have your essays and sketch to go by, they don't even know your marks. Did you get interviews elsewhere? What was your majour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I don't buy the view of an "elimination" process. How do you eliminate someone more or less than another to draw up what amounts to a ranked list of interviewees? How do you "eliminate" someone, but keep them on a waitlist? IMO, there are only 2 ways to be eliminated: 1 - Your stats (GPA, MCAT, essay, etc.) are too low relative to the applicant pool or school's standards, so you won't be interviewed. 2 - Your interview goes very poorly and they refuse to consider you. Other than this, EVERYTHING is ranked/scored: GPA, MCAT (if it's considered by the school), non-academic parts of the application, and interview. Of course there is a "fudge factor" for the committee to shuffle things at the end. It is this score and the subjective impressions of the admissions committee that determine your place relative to the other interviewees and your final acceptance status. It is NOT an elimination process: No application is perfect, every application has weak spots, and every single one of us would have been eliminated if it were an elimination process. Further, "cookie-cutter" applications (which would be favoured by an elimination system since all your bases would be covered) probably do worse than an application that is outstanding in a few areas despite a few weak points. *Note that all of this is speculation on my part and not representative of any school's actual admissions policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Once again folks, no personal attacks. I understand this is a bit of a heated thread, and understandably so, but that isn't any reason to attack people personally. If you want to debate the pros and cons of an admissions policy or outcome, fine, but don't bring insults to the table as well. Also, the two posters (enoughofthis) and (McMastergirl) are two different folks. Thanks for co-operating. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Alright: just as I suspected, this forum is a soap opera. I just came home from a horrid week and all my friend wants me to do is set Cheech and the others straight cause they are bad-mouthing McMaster girl (who was only trying to help you know) and they have the stats thing all wrong again and they keep on saying Mac's a lottery and some guy says he used a auto that only got 16% the first time---who on earth would do that and no one is helping DPT and .........good lord. My friend wants to periodically use my posting privileges since she refuses to get her own (since the name "supermeow' has been taken...I don't get the joke but it makes her laugh a lot). Cheech: of course everone has faults. The selection committees need to find ways to eliminate candidates since they only have a limited number of spots. GPA cutoffs are the number one elimination tool...think about it. Committees need to find faults with candidates in order to chip away at the numbers. I am not following your logic, to tell you the truth. The person who gave me the elimination advice has been on graduate committees for 20 + years (at UBC). This advice was confirmed by three other MDs at U of T about two weeks ago. My PH prof said that was the case and she's been an integral part of U of T med school selections for about 18 years if I remember correctly. I think it is very, very solid knowledge. Think what you may about it.... P.S. just for the soap opera record: no one on this board ever said anything about luck to me. People have always been very nice to me. The 'luck' comment was in relation to something completely unrelated to this forum: WHAT there is a life going on outside of this forum....does anyone else no about that? P.P.S correct me if I am wrong but I think the MsMaster girl/ enoughofthis controversy is a PLOY to detract us from the REAL controversy going on right under our noses: the friggin' Tim Horton 'no-body's-winnin'-nothin' roll up and dirty your fingers contest. EXCUSE me but shouldn't a mult-multi-too-rich corporation get off of their fat wallets and give out more free coffees???? Hey Ian: was I supposed to be insulted by something that Cheech said....see, once again it pays to be clueless. Oh boy...do you think McMaster girl and enoughofthis are confederates working for Tim Hortons.... I'm I the only one who has a problem with the odds of getting into Mac being greater than actually winning a free coffee???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I wasn't bad-mouthing anyone, and this is only my second post to this thread. I just don't think an elimination point of view works. You need to end up with a ranked list to decide acceptances, waitlists, and rejections and eliminating applicant after applicant to get down to your final number won't do this; only a *positive* scoring system. I'm not doubting your sources, I just don't believe that that's the right way for an applicant to approach admissions. So, let me re-word things. 1 - Poor GPA, MCAT, essay, etc. gets you rejected. A combined score for these factors that puts you in the top X applicants gets you interviewed. 2 - A very poor interview gets you rejected, no matter how good your scores were previously. 3 - Assuming your interview, GPA, MCAT, essay, etc. are reasonably good, everything is assigned a score and weighted according to the school's evaluation system. Any subjective factors may adjust this score up or down. The interviewees are ranked according to this final score, the top X are accepted, the next Y are waitlisted. The final Z are rejected. The problem with an elimination POV is this: it assumes that as long as all the required components of your application are present, you will get accepted. This is obviously false, or else everyone would have the same application and no one would ever be rejected. This POV encourages the cookie-cutter application mentality that there is a recipe for admission, and deviation from this recipe gets you eliminated. But the fact is that everyone's application is very different, and that even successful applicants had "holes" in their application. My viewpoint is this: elimination only occurs for applicants with serious problems in their application. For all others, it is a competition of "who is the better applicant" not "which applicant is missing fewer things from his application". Excellence is the name of the game. Show the admissions committee that you truly excel in certain things and that you can parlay that proven excellence into being an amazing phy sician. Do not underestimate the importance of the interview. It, along with your non-academic portion of the application, is your chance to show the adcom that you are the BEST applicant for the position, not the one that has done what is "required". Dannyboy - no, I did not say anything remotely insulting to you. Ian was referring to the general tone of the thread and the "conspiracy theories" that cropped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dannyboy Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Okay cheech: you don't get the elimination thing (I still don't follow your logic though; I'm just going by what others have told me) BUT be reasonable: the Tim Horton conspiracy is legitamate, is it not? I am not sure what you think is happening when people get selected out (AKA eliminated; AKA voted off the island). The elimination process depends on people not adhering to any "cookie-cutter" system. It thrives on differences. Got to go, life to get back to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I meant the enoughofthis/McMaster Girl identity theory, not the Tim Horton's thing. And what gets you "eliminated" is not having a combined score that puts you in the top X students, ie. not being selected as one of the best applicants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Dannyboy...welcome back! You're too funny. Actually, I think the real conspiracy is that Tim Horton's are selling holes -- I once sold ants to my friends for a penny a piece...darn it, I missed the boat again! ...but even more interesting...did you know that Tim Horton was once accepted to Mac with a 3.1 GPA? He had an awesome interview...and his extracurriculars weren't too bad either! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I hear you Dannyboy, there's definetly a lack of free coffees at Tim Hortons, on the other hand, I don't really have a problem with Mac's application process. It seems to me that all the Ontario schools have slightly different application processes, which should suit a diversity of students. I wasn't completely out of luck because I didn't get stellar MCAT marks and if I had truly put my heart and soul into writing those Mac questions, I'm positive I would have gotten an interview. Anyway, I think we should stop blaming the 'system' and start thinking about ways we can improve our applications. If I don't get into med school this year, I'm not going say that 'I fell through the cracks of the med school admissions process'. I believe that my fate is in my own hands and if I want something badly enough, I will get it. As for all the controversy on this thread, I agree completely with being open & direct, but you don't have to be mean. I can see that a lot of people are frustrated, especially those who have applied several times. As this is my first time applying, I don't know how you feel, but my personal opinion would be (after 4+ application cycles) to find an alternate career that I would enjoy just as much as medicine, there has to be something else out there, right??? For those who are not happy with Mac's system, you should definetly broaden your horizons and send out applications all over the place next time. It's really weird to hear someone say, 'Mac is unfair, I've applied there 3 times and my essay was ranked with 3 different percentiles' (made-up example). My response to that statement is, what about the other schools? Did you write the MCAT? Did you at least try to get in anywhere else? It's not Mac's problem if you don't get in, it is your own, however, don't let that deter you from trying to improve your application and increasing your odds by applying to several places next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McMastergirl Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 This thread is hilarious! Especially the newest Tim Horton's conspiracy development. Ok, you caught me!:lol Seriously though, I posted often on this forum last year, and I gave a lot of advice (having both through the admission process at Mac from both sides) which was actually really appreciated (some of you long-time posters might remember me as Macmed). This year the tone is distinctly different. I'm sure you are all very good candidates, and ya, there is a component of luck, but that's true of every school. Mac doesn't have a "formula" that is predictable, but that doesn't mean it is totally random. Please don't be discouraged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 I'll have a medium double double please:lol and a conspiracy theory on the side! As soon as I saw Tim Horton's I thought to myself "Where is this post headed." This site is the premed's best and worst reason to procrastinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hey Macmed... I remember that moniker...you may remember me as "peterhill0501". Welcome back under the new and improved name! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest doctorbones Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 It seems as though you probably have a pretty good application, but McMaster is a really really competitive school. Why not apply elsewhere in the country to increase your chances of getting in somewhere. Trust me, if it's you dream, you have to go for it! I left everyone I knew and came to the middle of nowhere where I knew absolutely no one and I've managed to do just fine! It took 10 applications across the country and I would have filled out even more if it had been possible, because it was all worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Tim Horton would have made a hell of a doc. Why? Look at the EFPO roles. Advocate or communicator: he was the assistant captain of the Leafs for several years. Dealing with that much old time hockey garbage with and from the refs and learning when to really push the system would be a great quality in a doc. Gatekeeper: As the above, to keep the rest of his teammates away from the refs and out of trouble. Also opposing forwards in front of the net, shoo, get out of my office. Scientist: Rumour has it they experimented with lots of combinations of lard, toppings and dough to get that satisfyingly slightly greasy taste of the donuts. Heck, there's a rumour he got caught speeding on the QEW with LSD in the car! Of course, he proved it was Last Saturday's Donuts, so they let him off... Person: Charitable, outgoing, lots of stuff during the off-season, a truly well-rounded individual. Team member/collaborator: you try doing end-to-end rushes with Gordie Howe whacking at your ankles or Stan Mikita trying to steal the puck from you. Of course it's a team game. And he was a master at starting the play from his own end with the first pass. Wonder what Tim Donut would have thought of the med school admission elimination tournament, tho, vs. the Stanley Cup playoffs. Everybody's just as motivated, there's always some contraversy along the way, lots more participants, it's longer and more agonizing for the inactivity along the way. But the good thing is, five teams win, the teams are bigger, and it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things. But it looks kinda silly hoisting a lecture room seat in triumph. Especially on skates. Good luck everyone! Crackers UWO MEDS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grandmellon Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 I propose an outright moratorium on purchasing Tim Horton's Coffee Cups... And I say coffee cups because I believe that is what people are buying because they have this itching inside of them that tells them they will win big time! maybe the vehicle... and then again maybe its just the caffeine, I wouldn't know. I don't drink coffee! :b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 ...actually, I hear that Tim Horton, being rejected from several med schools prior to being offered acceptance at Mac, due to the randomness of the selection process :b , got really mean...and figured out...in addition to what makes people crave his donuts...a secret ingredient which he places in the rim of the cup...upon unrolling the cup with ones fingers or teeth/tongue...this secret ingredient is transcutaneously absorbed...causing an insatiable need for holes...and more coffee...actually, it's not the coffee they're craving...it's the secret ingredient... ...hmmmmmmmmm...perhaps we could put such a substance on our applications...and adcoms would become addicted to us as candidates...thus, taking the randomness out of the process Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest multifish Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Sweet jevus, this thread is just nuts. Should I fear PBL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.