Pharmacy vs Medicine

[ralk]

52 minutes ago, khan911 said:

USDO is treated as img by Canada 

But they're not treated as IMGs by US programs, and have more favourable visa options as a result, which I'm fairly sure is what JohnGrisham was getting at.

Australian grads from Canada can get residency programs in Australia, the US, or Canada, but none of the these pathways are very secure and all are getting increasingly risky. USDOs have a rather low shot at Canadian residencies, but at least have a rather secure option of staying in the US.

To the OP, the IMG route should really only be considered for those who can't see themselves doing anything but medicine and have the financial means to pay for that pathway. It doesn't sound like you meet either of those conditions, and already have an excellent alternative career pathway available. Going to Australia is risky, there's no way around that. What happens if the price of your education rises, either because of direct tuition increases or by a worse exchange rate? What happens if you fail to land a residency spot anywhere, or, more likely, end up with a residency position that doesn't meet any of your personal or professional goals? I'm not just talking ending up in a less-desirable location, though that's quite likely too. What happens if you, for whatever reason, can't get back to Canada for work once you finish residency? None of these outcomes are guaranteed and some of them aren't likely, but they're all possible, often out of your hands to control, and you should be prepared for them if you decide to pursue medicine in Australia. If you're willing and able to take on the risks with going to Australia, it's a valid option, though still not one I would recommend. If there are any doubts about taking on those risks, 100% do not go that pathway. Pharmacy is a tough program to get into, with a lot of professional and personal upsides in providing stability and flexibility moving forward - it's an opportunity I'd be hesitant to give up without very good reason.

[prehealth101]

1 hour ago, khan911 said:

USDO is treated as img by Canada 

DO's can start US residencies on OPT, which often translates to a H1B after taking step 3 in your first year of residency. Other IMG's can't. This is the huge advantage of going to US DO over other IMG options. 

Pretty sure that's what he's saying. Chances of you being jobless is much less.

[JohnGrisham]

11 hours ago, khan911 said:

USDO is treated as img by Canada 

The goal of a USMD or USDO is to secure a residency in the US.   Both program types offer an infinitely better gaurantee than IMG schools and have a much easier pathway into a US residency. 

Getting a Canadian residency as a non-CMG is very difficult, and Canada is slowly closing the door on IMGs being able to back up with a US residency. 

[Guest]

You could just start pharmacy at UofT for one year and apply to Canadian med schools again in the next application cycle...

if you can get into pharmacy at uoft you probably are a competitive candidate and I don't see why you would risk your future and waste a ton of money in Australia.

if you can get into Australia this year, you can probably get in again next year, so if you still don't end up getting in, we'll you have a back up plan.

[applicant111]

6 minutes ago, 1997 said:

You could just start pharmacy at UofT for one year and apply to Canadian med schools again in the next application cycle...

if you can get into pharmacy at uoft you probably are a competitive candidate and I don't see why you would risk your future and waste a ton of money in Australia.

if you can get into Australia this year, you can probably get in again next year, so if you still don't end up getting in, we'll you have a back up plan.

Oh wow. I did not know that you could apply to medical schools while you are in pharmacy. Is this the case with other professional schools as well? (Dental, law, etc.)

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, applicant111 said:

Oh wow. I did not know that you could apply to medical schools while you are in pharmacy. Is this the case with other professional schools as well? (Dental, law, etc.)

In Quebec it is, I am not sure if other provinces are the same.

I did one year in physical therapy before switching to med.

[TARS]

On 2017-6-12 at 11:06 PM, kdottt said:

 

Hi All,

I post here scarcely, but felt that this was a good place to ask for opinions/advice since I'm really torn on what I should do.

I've been admitted into pharmacy school at the University of Toronto (I'm from Toronto), as well as medical school in Australia. I've been accepted into UQ, and also have an interview at Sydney but I'm leaning towards UQ because it's cheaper. If you can guys can highlight the pros and cons of each, that would be great. Ultimately, I think medicine would make me happier, but the cost is an issue as I don't come from a wealthy family. How do people overcome the cost issues when studying abroad? If you do a cost benefit analysis, pharmacy seems to be a much better option in the short term (i.e for about the next 15 years) after that medicine is the better option easily.

Considering those things, and the barriers to entry back into North America with an Australian degree, what would you guys recommend. In terms of speciality, I would love Psychiatry, but if I have to settle for FM, I'd be fine with it.

I have no experience applying outside of Canada, but I can offer my two cents on a career in pharmacy as a recent pharmacy grad going to medical school. I think you have to look into why you think medicine will make you happier. Pharmacy can be extremely rewarding, as you can build close relationship with your patients to create opportunities to make an impact. You get more stable work hours and earlier financial stability.  However, pay in Canada isn't so great anymore, and you're often working under corporate pressure to meet quotas that will get you jaded pretty quickly.  If you want something more academic and clinical, you can always do a residency after grad, which quite a different scope of practice allowing you to work at the wards in the hospital.

I personally found pharmacy to be especially exciting and rewarding in the field of psychiatry if that's something you want to go into.  Psychiatry is often heavily dependent on medication management, and there is so much opportunity to make a difference.  From my experience, many pharmacists in the community are a little apprehensive when it comes to psychiatry, even though they are perfectly positioned to educate, collaborate, and intervene. There's a lot of room for you to pave the way in how community mental health is managed from a medication/screening perspective.  Also, if you do a residency, your opinion in rounds is generally quite respected, and many treatment resistant cases often depend on your pharmacological expertise outside of established guidelines.

Of course, you lose out on all the diagnostics (and some more). Sometimes you'll be left with a feeling of an incomplete picture (especially in the community), whether it is because you don't have certain information (lab values, diagnostics), physicians not willing to collaborate, or because it's simply outside your scope of practice.

TLDR: Pharmacy can be a great career, especially in psychiatry, but only if you truly understand your role and are ok with it.

If the cost of studying abroad is really an issue, U of T Pharmacy can be a great route to take, and you can still do great things in psychiatry. Like others said, you can apply during pharmacy school back into medicine; you may add a little more to your debt, but it's not necessarily wasted because what you've learned during that time may be pretty useful to your medical career.

PM me if you want to know more about pharmacy.

[kdottt]

1 hour ago, TARS said:

I have no experience applying outside of Canada, but I can offer my two cents on a career in pharmacy as a recent pharmacy grad going to medical school. I think you have to look into why you think medicine will make you happier. Pharmacy can be extremely rewarding, as you can build close relationship with your patients to create opportunities to make an impact. You get more stable work hours and earlier financial stability.  However, pay in Canada isn't so great anymore, and you're often working under corporate pressure to meet quotas that will get you jaded pretty quickly.  If you want something more academic and clinical, you can always do a residency after grad, which quite a different scope of practice allowing you to work at the wards in the hospital.

I personally found pharmacy to be especially exciting and rewarding in the field of psychiatry if that's something you want to go into.  Psychiatry is often heavily dependent on medication management, and there is so much opportunity to make a difference.  From my experience, many pharmacists in the community are a little apprehensive when it comes to psychiatry, even though they are perfectly positioned to educate, collaborate, and intervene. There's a lot of room for you to pave the way in how community mental health is managed from a medication/screening perspective.  Also, if you do a residency, your opinion in rounds is generally quite respected, and many treatment resistant cases often depend on your pharmacological expertise outside of established guidelines.

Of course, you lose out on all the diagnostics (and some more). Sometimes you'll be left with a feeling of an incomplete picture (especially in the community), whether it is because you don't have certain information (lab values, diagnostics), physicians not willing to collaborate, or because it's simply outside your scope of practice.

TLDR: Pharmacy can be a great career, especially in psychiatry, but only if you truly understand your role and are ok with it.

If the cost of studying abroad is really an issue, U of T Pharmacy can be a great route to take, and you can still do great things in psychiatry. Like others said, you can apply during pharmacy school back into medicine; you may add a little more to your debt, but it's not necessarily wasted because what you've learned during that time may be pretty useful to your medical career.

PM me if you want to know more about pharmacy.

Thanks for the elaborate post. I have been flip flopping real hard, the past week or so. Currently the scale is tipping towards medicine, simply because I am not one to back down from a challenge, and I don't want there to be a point in my life where I think about what could have been. I hate regret. I'm regretful right now for being misinformed, lacking mentorship etc, early in my undergrad and doing poorly as a result of that. I'm currently confident I can excel in any field because my mindset has completely changed over the years. 

In regards to psychiatric pharmacy, thanks for that information. Ironically enough, if i do go the medicine route, my goal is to go into psych (i absolutely love it). Psych being a not-so competitive speciality (relatively) helps my cause. Adding to that, the pharmacy situation is becoming bleaker by the minute and that really scares me. I would've been elated with pharmacy about two years ago, but ever since I've worked in a clinical setting, I can't imagine not doing that for the rest of my life. I still haven't decided what I'm going to do as of yet; most of it depends of my ability to gather the funds. 'YOLO' is the corniest cliche of all time, but its also very true. I want to maximize my impact on earth, and I think I might have an opportunity here, and I don't want to let it go.

[TARS]

On 2017-6-20 at 4:27 AM, kdottt said:

Thanks for the elaborate post. I have been flip flopping real hard, the past week or so. Currently the scale is tipping towards medicine, simply because I am not one to back down from a challenge, and I don't want there to be a point in my life where I think about what could have been. I hate regret. I'm regretful right now for being misinformed, lacking mentorship etc, early in my undergrad and doing poorly as a result of that. I'm currently confident I can excel in any field because my mindset has completely changed over the years. 

In regards to psychiatric pharmacy, thanks for that information. Ironically enough, if i do go the medicine route, my goal is to go into psych (i absolutely love it). Psych being a not-so competitive speciality (relatively) helps my cause. Adding to that, the pharmacy situation is becoming bleaker by the minute and that really scares me. I would've been elated with pharmacy about two years ago, but ever since I've worked in a clinical setting, I can't imagine not doing that for the rest of my life. I still haven't decided what I'm going to do as of yet; most of it depends of my ability to gather the funds. 'YOLO' is the corniest cliche of all time, but its also very true. I want to maximize my impact on earth, and I think I might have an opportunity here, and I don't want to let it go.

I know how you feel about working in a clinical setting and not imagining doing anything else. I don't know much about the situation with Australian medical school, but it sounds like you should do something you won't wake up regretting 20 years from now.  But if medicine doesn't end up being a viable path, don't be discouraged. Like I said, a hospital residency in pharmacy is super clinical, and I know several pharmacists that probably make a bigger impact on patients lives than I will as a physician.