Graduate productivity

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

I just received the UofT Admissions Office letter requesting additional information from graduate students. The letter looks quite a bit different this year than it has in previous years. UofT are pretty specific as to the types of information that they require this year. Interestingly, they're also looking for a section within our CVs that "deals with your extracurricular activities". :rolleyes

 

Anyway, good luck to you all with this little project over the holidays.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest UTMed07]

Interestingly, they're also looking for a section within our CVs that "deals with your extracurricular activities".

 

Sounds like the admissions people are just taking some guess work out it--telling you how your CV should look.

 

When I made mine last year I remember thinking -- 'I really ought not put extracurriculars into my CV,' whereas I couldn't resist not doing it 'cause I figured they would help show the committee the kind of person I am (and perhaps sway the committee into deciding I was worthy of an interview invite).

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Sure, a couple of currently extracurricular activities are commonly found on CVs. However, when they specify that you should also include your extracurricular activities except for those occuring before the age of 16. That's a bit different.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest stallion001]

Hey Kirsteen:

 

When is all the documentation due?

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

This year, it's January 16th.

 

Unlike previous years' letters this year's is very specific regarding the sections that should be in the CV, e.g., "Abstracts", "Presentations", "Awards" along with the status of each of your papers, etc. Not that you all don't already have these sections outlined, but it's interesting that UofT is stipulating such details.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest cause2003]

Hey Kirsteen,

Can you tell me exactly what UofT wants by the 16th of Jan. I am outside of N.America now and I am afraid that by the time I get the letter it will be too late to send anything in.

Take Care,

Cause

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Here's the letter:

 

"Dear Applicant:

 

Based on the information we have received from OMSAS, you are currently enrolled in or have completed a Graduate Degree program.

 

As outlined in the OMSAS instructions, graduate applicants must submit additional information to our office no later than January 16, 2004. With the exception of transcripts, submissions received after January 16, 2004 will not be considered.

 

When submitting your information, please follow the guidelines outlined below.

 

1) Curriculum Vitae: an up to date CV should be included. Published papers/manuscripts should be shown under a separate heading clearly indicating the status of the paper (eg. published, in press, submitted, in preparation).

 

The CV should include information under the headings of "Abstracts", "Presentations" and "Awards". You should include a section on your CV that deals with your extracurricular activities. The time period covered should not date back earlier than age 16.

 

Letters of Reference: The three reference letters submitted to OMSAS will be used by the Committee. In addition, graduate candidates may submit a maximum of three additional letters of reference regarding their graduate work. One of the letters submitted must be provided by your graduate supervisor.

 

It is recommended that students enrolled in course-based only or professional graduate programs provide a letter from their program director commenting on the applicant's standing and rank in that program.

 

2) Submission of Research Productivity: If submitting published papers/manuscripts, please submit only the first page of the article, along with a copy of the abstract. If the paper has been submitted or is "in press", please provide a copy of the letter or email from the editor/journal involved indicating the status of the paper. Please not that we will only accept paper submissions. Do not submit computer disks, audio or video tapes, etc. DO NOT SUBMIT A COPY OF YOUR THESIS.

 

3) Transcripts: An upated transcript should be sent directly to our office if there have been changes to your transcript since submission to OMSAS (eg. fall course grades now appear on the transcript)

 

The deadline for submission of this information to our office is January 16, 2004. No exceptions will be made to this deadline.

 

Due to the volume of material sent to our office, we are not able to provide verbal or written confirmation of receipt. Should you desire verification, please use a delivery method that will provide confirmation of delivery.

 

This letter is sent to all graduate applicants for your information and does not indicate that material you have already sent has not been received.

 

Should you have any questions or concerns, please contact our office."

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest cause2003]

Thanks for the info. I really owe you one.

They should make you an honorary moderator.

- Cause.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

I tried giving the Admissions Office a wee shout yesterday to clarify this, but alas, they're off on holidays until the new year. Can you guys shed some light on this?

 

UofT is asking for specific sections within the CV, two of which are "Abstracts" and "Presentations". Are most presentations not accompanied by abstracts? Thinking along these lines, how would you guys go about separating a "presentation" from an "abstract"? Also, regarding abstracts, there are some meetings that a presenter may attend which are affiliated with a journal. If your peer-reviewed poster abstract is approved for presentation, it is then published in that affiliated journal. Obviously, this abstract is a little different from other abstracts that don't find their way into journals, but which do appear in the conference proceedings because you have presented a poster. Do you think this is what UofT means by "Abstracts", i.e., published abstracts, as opposed to "Presentations", that may simply be poster or oral presentations with abstracts but without official publication?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest cause2003]

Another question to add to the above. Do we have to submit a copy of the abstracts we have had for poster/oral presenations? I understand that they want something for full length articles, but I am unsure of presentations.

\Cause

[Guest medical cptn]

Hi Kirsteen,

 

Actually that's a good question re: abstracts vs. conference presentations. Our abstract was accepted a long time ago as a poster, but was different from the poster that was presented at a conference. I was also wondering whether or not it would be the same thing or not.

 

Do you put abstracts that are published only???

 

Thanks!

[Guest mydream88]

HI guys,

The new changes at U of T are in my opinion, for the better. I beleive, from what I have heard from the admissions officer, that the more specific instructions this year were decided upon to maximize fairness in the process. I personally, made a fool of myself last year when thinking about it retrospectively. I submitted some things that were not necessary or beneficial to my graduate school submission. This way, there is a standard protocol for us to follow and we are all assessed thereforth on equal ground.

 

mydream88

 

p.s. Happy Holidays:D :rollin

[Guest Toonces]

Hey. I think they must mean published abstracts. So if you presented and the abstract was published in an established journal, then list it under abstracts; if not, under presentations..

 

..although as long as you have some decent productivity I doubt it will make a big difference one way or another..

 

best of luck!

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there Toonces,

 

Thanks for that clarification. I'd figured that might have been the case, but I wasn't sure.

 

Also, how common is it for conference abstracts to be published in a journal? Does anyone have a rough idea as to what percentage of conferences are affiliated with journals? Also, is this practice more commonplace in basic or clinical science conferences? I'd think the latter, but again, I'm not sure.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mydream88]

HI everyone ,

It is sunny here today!!

 

I just wanted to clarify regarding our take on this 'abstract issue'...So if an abstract was 'presented' at a conference (which is fairly self-evident considering you submit abstracts to determine acceptance for presentation) that wasn't associated with a medical journal, then one would include this research work as a presentation in our CV?

 

mydream88:)

[Guest soapyslicer]

Hi Everyone,

 

Merry Christmas!!!

 

Just to add a few thoughts to this abstract thing. I think anytime you have sent in a abstract and it has been accepted for presentation you should add it. I had an abstract accepted and was asked to do a podium presentation based on it. The actual abstract was printed in the conference material, and I added it to the presentation part as I did a podium presentation at the same meeting. I would say the same is true for an abstract accepted for a poster presentation. I had several copies of the conference literature and sent it in as proof. I did it this way as the abstract and the presentation were obviously on the same topic, but ultimately very different in the end experience for me!

 

Am I making any sense...maybe not my kids woke me up too early this morning.

 

Hope everyone was spoilt today and is finding ways to distract themselves from worrying about what may or may not show up in the mail....

 

soapy

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Cheers for your input, soapy.

 

So the small consensus seems to be: 1) if you have had an abstract published in a journal affiliated with the meeting which you attended, then it is slotted under the "Abstracts" section of the CV; 2) if you have had an abstract for either a poster or an oral presentation appear in conference proceedings, but these proceedings were not published in any affiliated journal, then the abstract appears under the "Presentations" section of the CV.

 

Roger?

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest blobbo123]

How would you add material to your CV in which you were not first author and which you did not present? i.e. poster presentations and podium presentations by the first author when you were a contributing author.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

One way you could approach the above is to list all the authors and then underline the author who presented the piece. Conferences often take this approach with their abstracts, and this is what I've done with my own application to UofT.

 

Cheers and good luck,

Kirsteen

[Guest stallion001]

Just 2 questions:

 

1) do we attach a cover letter

 

2) what is an appropriate page limit

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Two answers for you:

 

1) You can if you like, but it probably won't make too much difference given that the Admissions Committee probably will not see it.

 

2) Whatever number of pages manage to hold all your lists of awards, presentations, publications, etc. More seriously though, CVs can vary widely in length, depending on the experience of the individual. As long as you adhere to a standard CV format to list your valid accolades and activities, then I'm sure the Admissions Committee would be fine receiving a longer CV from you.

 

Just for fun, can we get an idea of the average CV length for the folks around the board (without the extracurriculars)?

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest therealcrackers]

When I applied, my CV was about 3 pages long, not including the extracurriculars. I had 5 "abstracts", but under the new classifications, that would be 3 presentations and 2 actual abstracts.

 

Most international meetings and national meetings in Canada or the US will have the abstracts published in a supplemental issue of the "host" journal. Examples would be the American Heart Association meeting publishes in Circulation, the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians meeting publishes in the Can J of Emerg Med, and the International Society for Heart Research publishes in the J of Molec and Cell Cardiology. It should be present on all of the abstract information in which journal these will be published. Or, ask your supervisor. Keystone meetings do not get published ANYWHERE, as far as I know...

 

As far as productivity goes, being in a PhD program will likely require at least one or two first/second author papers as evidence of good productivity; this varies depending on the field you're in, of course. (Finally, TWO YEARS after my thesis was finished, the publications are starting to appear; maybe that's why I didn't get into U of T.)

 

I think asking for additional information like this is a good idea, as it will help with the objective assessment of most graduate students' productivity. It will not take into account bad luck (getting scooped, getting sick, losing radioactivity licence), poor supervision (sabbatical, etc), but these can be balanced by the supervisor's letter and the reference letters (I hope).

[Guest UTMed07]

My CV filled five pages. About 3/4 of a page was extracurriculars.

 

I lumped my publications together -- two peer-reviewed (one published, one submitted), one poster, one presentation (with abstract-ish two page article published in the proceedings). Beyond that, about one page was devoted to the description of various research activites in industry and academia.

 

The rest was a mix of skills, work experience, awards and accomplishments. Some of it (maybe 1/2 page) was a bit fluffy; to wrap things up (just before my references) I threw in a list of my university courses in biology & the life sciences -- justified in my mind by the fact that my undergraduate studies and work experience suggest a career path that's unusual for someone with a desire to become a physician.

 

Any way, this leads me to my thoughts in general about CVs and resumes:

I think it is important to consider who the audience is. (I wouldn't normally list university courses I've taken in a CV.)

 

IMHO the CV should be tailored somewhat to the application; in other words, you're not writing a CV--you're writing a CV to get into medical school.

[Guest turtle]

(sorry if this is covered in the letter already...i'm still at my family's for the holidays & haven't seen it yet)

 

What about abstracts that have been submitted for presentation at a conference, but where we have yet to hear back about whether or not they have been accepted? Can these be included? If so, under what category??

 

Thanks,

 

turtle

[Guest premed81]

Hi there everyone,

I haven't written here in a LONG TIME. Although I am a medical school applicant, I am also a graduate applicant for the first time this year. I am in the middle of completing my applications for several programs to U of T to earn a Master of Science. However, in reading this thread, I get the strange feeling that you all are applying to some higher level graduate program or are experienced graduate applicants. I'm following the instructions to complete my application, but being a 4th year undergraduate, I don't have any of these "abstract" or "conference presentation" achievements under my belt. Am I misunderstanding something? I thank you for any insight.